College Baseball in General

baseballmomtwo


STEP ONE -----take a pot of coffee and sit down an look at the websites for the colleges your son (or you) have an interest in--- it will help you get a perspective

STEP TWO---what do you define as a lower level of academics?

STEP THREE---after the two first steps ---back up a step or two and think about it all

I am not trying to be a wise guy--but I am blunt---the key is for the boy to be comfortable in his setting for academics and baseball--as an 08 he still has time to make those choices


Hope that this helps

My son has made a list of 25 schools he would be interested in. He knows he needs a smaller academic school. We have toured 6 of these schools and have spoken to 3 baseball coaches. As parents we look at him being happy first, and we do not want something that is challenging but not too difficult. Right now, he studies and plays baseball. College is more than studying and playing baseball. He has a 1280 on the SAT score, not counting the writing. We don't want to take his dreams away from him, but we also want to be realistic and we know those scores alone will not get him into these schools, but we don't know if baseball will help him get into these schools. He is smart, but certainly not a genius. We do know that Rice and Stanford have the cream of the crop kids to choose from. These schools have great baseball programs, I am not as familiar with Duke's program. He is also interested in Wake, Univ. of Richmond, Davidson. Here again, these are very highly selective schools. He attends a prep school now and is taking all AP courses. He has a 3.7 GPA. I have been to the web sites, but not really studied them, so I will do that, maybe that will give me some more insight. Thanks for the input and willing to take any more advice you have to give.

The academics are one thing and he surely seems solid there---but baseball talent also comes into it---the two aspects have to mesh---he looks like he can do it academically but can he do it baseball wise at the "dream schools" ?

TR gives great advice...
...one thing I think he advised me on was "fit." Somewhere there will be a school which will be a great fit academically and athletically. A smaller private school might be academically elite (Duke, Rice), but they may well be on opposite ends of the baseball spectrum (Duke, Rice).

One thing to remember - I hope I don't start a huge debate here - but you as parent and your son are the most important factors in recruiting. It's good that your select coach is pushing your son but if you rely on him you will miss out.

I am a high school head coach and I have had several college coaches tell me they don't listen to the high school and summer coaches about talent. They feel they either exagerate it or have no idea what they are talking about.

Go to as many camps / showcases the schools your son is interested in and go to them - he could even call / email to find out which ones they will be at. Have him talk to and email those coaches and ask for their honest assessment about his skills. The more they see him perform the more they will remember him.

You can't get a scholarship if you wait for them to come to you.

I wish you and your family the best of luck in this endeavor. I still remember my playing days and I will always cherish those times.

quote:

Originally posted by JT:
TR gives great advice...
...one thing I think he advised me on was "fit." Somewhere there will be a school which will be a great fit academically and athletically. A smaller private school might be academically elite (Duke, Rice), but they may well be on opposite ends of the baseball spectrum (Duke, Rice).

Rice is nice. Trinity University might be a good option. Small private TX school, great academics, awesome baseball program.

quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:


Go to as many camps / showcases the schools your son is interested in and go to them - he could even call / email to find out which ones they will be at. Have him talk to and email those coaches and ask for their honest assessment about his skills. The more they see him perform the more they will remember him.

Although much of the advice you've been given here is excellent, I must disagree strongly with the previous comment. Most College camps are simply a moneymaker for the coaches and many will tell you anything to get you to write the check to come there.

A better avenue might be to write/talk to those college coaches and find out which showcases they will attend and get them to see your son that way. I know several of the showcase companies are highly regarded for talent evaluation, so even schools that might not get a chance to scout him there, will still be able to get unbiased opinions on his skills.

One of the schools you mentioned I am familiar with, Richmond, as they recruited my son heavily. Excellent academic school and first class coaches. I do think they were rated the second most expensive tuition in the US recently though.
JMHO

baseballmomtwo,

You're on the receiving end of some very good advice here. TR, JT, coach2709, and Dad04; these guys know their stuff. Keep asking questions and look for more options to open up as you go.

Don't know about the other schools you mentioned, but Coach Stotz at Stanford told me he needed to see at least a 1250 on the SAT (the old one) to seriously consider a kid. Maybe it's changed since, but if you add in the writing score your probably looking at at least 1850 to be considered. They also look at other factors of course. Sounds like your son is in the ballpark. Have him take the test again this spring if at all possible.

Justbaseball and Bordeaux (who both post here regularly) have sons at Stanford. You might try inquiring through PM.

If you look at the players Stanford recruits you'll find that they're not all HR guys nor all 96 MPH studs. They do go after special players, for sure, but not all are blue chip freaks. They really look for smart kids who also have great tools.

The Stanford camp is well documented on this site, and I highly recommend it as both an college evaluation and a pre college experience. PG is the best pro or college evaluation your son can get IMHO.

Good luck, and let us all know how things develop.

quote:

Although much of the advice you've been given here is excellent, I must disagree strongly with the previous comment. Most College camps are simply a moneymaker for the coaches and many will tell you anything to get you to write the check to come there.

A better avenue might be to write/talk to those college coaches and find out which showcases they will attend and get them to see your son that way. I know several of the showcase companies are highly regarded for talent evaluation, so even schools that might not get a chance to scout him there, will still be able to get unbiased opinions on his skills.

I am glad you pointed this out. You are completely correct and I meant for them to do this but I really stunk at getting it across. Some camps are moneymakers and be careful of that.

I doubt it would be his academics that would keep him out of Rice. They cut some slack for athletes (in spite of what they lead everyone to believe), as do many similar schools. However, Rice is one of the top baseball programs in the country right now. Very difficult for a player to make that team.

Good luck to your son in his journey.

Baseballmomtwo,
You have gotten great advice from all and I can’t expound on what has already been said but I will address one thing --- “fit”. I think you need to understand this one small word which plays an imports part in a student/athlete’s success at the college level. A good fit is never 100% guaranteed but the odds of success are greatly improved if you understand what you son has to offer academically and athletically combined with your understanding the college’s needs (or wants) both athletically and academically.
Options are a good thing but I think a list of 25 colleges is too large. Try to reduce that down to a more manageable number. I would be surprised if your son (or any player) could find a good fit at 25 different colleges. If you have a better understanding of “fit”, reducing this list of colleges becomes easier. I think the academic fit can be determined by his GPA and his entrance tests such as the SAT and compare them to the requirement of the college. A phone call to the college admissions office should answer most of your basic academic questions. If the basic requirments are met you can get more specefic information if you need it. The baseball fit is a little more elusive. You need to showcase your son and absorb feedback from the reputable showcase(s), his coaches, pro scouts, and listen to those college coaches that are showing interest. With your son being an ’08 you are about a year behind schedule with showcases and evaluations. Since you have talked to three college coaches you should have at least some idea of where you son can play but I do sense a problem here. You need to have an accurate evaluation of your son’s talent. Like most parents you think good solid players that are consistent is an accurate evaluation. It goes much deeper than that. Being this late in the game without an accurate evaluation, you (your son) is at the mercy of the recruiting coaches. It is akin to selling a car and having no idea what that car is worth. The seller (parent)shoulde always know more about their product (player) than the buyer (coaches). Keep us posted.
Fungo

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I'll hit one end of this..."Fit"..

quote:

I think you need to understand this one small word (fit) which plays an imports part in a student/athlete’s success at the college level. A good fit is never 100% guaranteed but the odds of success are greatly improved if you understand what you son has to offer academically and athletically combined with your understanding the college’s needs (or wants) both athletically and academically.

This is sage advice....and since you are looking at high end schools...my Caveat?..."Fit" does not always mean stretching to your limits.

Great, my son JUST squeezes into a high end school academically...

Now he has to compete with the countries "elite" academic "players" AND full time baseball competing with the "Elite" players in the athletic venue, and throw in some sort of social life.

Maybe he sucks it all up, learns to manage his time, grows with it, and happily excels...Maybe the baseball program gets some extra academic leeway...maybe he "dumbs down" his major to cope....Maybe he gives up any social life...Maybe gets buried...Don't know which one your son might be...and I'm not saying that you are off track..

Just be aware, "fit" is what is right for YOUR son. Just be aware that fit is much broader than getting in to the top school....."Fit" is being happy, being in an environment where he can grow and excel not only as an athlete, not only as a stduent but as a human being. This means finding a school that matches his needs and expectations with theirs...academically, socially, athletically, geographically, and with coaches that match his needs.

Fungo is so right on this one....

quote:

understand what you son has to offer academically and athletically combined with your understanding the college’s needs (or wants) both athletically and academically.

44
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Great summation O44- timely advice for all of us, especially the '08's. Thanks to all the experienced posters for helping us parents of high school student/athletes to understand the recruiting process better.

Thanks for a lot of really good advice here - these are all things that us 08 Parents and our kids need to be thinking about as we head into an action packed, fun filled Junior season and summer...

08

Thanks to all of you, this is great advice. This will help us through the process and I will keep you posted this summer on how it works out.

Stanwood and Baseballmom you have a PM

Let me add that showcase camps are useful in this regard--they do allow for the player (and the family) to see the competition, i.e. the size, strength, speed etc. I am no expert but I would think that if he has the skills, the academics you explain will not close any door. Good Luck.

Since my name was mentioned . You're getting great advice from everyone. This thread maybe should almost go golden already. Observer 44, really good post. Combining baseball and studying in college is such a huge challenge--but it does also bring such great rewards.

I will say right away that I really don't know much about average scores or grades at Stanford, as I really only know what my son's were, but he was not a recruited player, he walked on (invited walkon). The word in town is that they are getting pickier and pickier with athletes (meaning, I guess, that they are demanding higher scores and grades although I am not sure), but I have no hard data or even one anecdote on that subject, it's just the gossip around with no specifics. Frankly, they are getting pickier and pickier period. The admit rate to Stanford from our school, one of the local high schools, has plummeted in the past two years, since a new admissions dean arrived.

One thing about the new SAT--I have heard that lots of admissions offices are still basically just focusing on the "old" 2 sections of the SAT, as they don't really know what to do yet with the writing scores. Our '08 kids (mine are girls, but still in the college hunt) I don't think have to sweat too much if the writing score isn't on a par with math and critical reasoning. Of course you want to do the best you can on it but I don't think the admissions offices are giving it quite as much weight as the other two sections.

Also, if he has a 1280 on an early try as a junior, he is quite likely to have higher scores on a repeated sitting, and the colleges do just look for the highest scores, they don't average them or anything. A very good site for non-baseball information about colleges is the message boards at collegeconfidential.com.

quote:

posted by Bordeaux: Also, if he has a 1280 on an early try as a junior, he is quite likely to have higher scores on a repeated sitting, and the colleges do just look for the highest scores, they don't average them or anything. A very good site for non-baseball information about colleges is the message boards at collegeconfidential.com.

Excellent post. 50-100 point improvements are fairly common withj additional testing, possibly resulting from drilling with improvement courses available. Higher scores obviously means additional opportunities.

Duke has a baseball team?

Have faith there are many great schools that a kid with a 3.7 GPA and 1280 sat's can attend. If you add baseball, and a coaches desire to have you, you will be amazed at where he will get accepted.

My advice to you is not to focus on the "name" of the school. The schools you listed are all great schools in the southeast. Look for schools where your son will be happy, find success and grow as a person.

When I went through the process with my son we looked at schools that had certain attributes. For example: smaller school, liberal arts, in the south, southeast or west, where his academic profile (GPA/SAT)fit there standard acceptance, successful baseball program where he could play and reasonable access to cross-country airlines.

Once we did this and opened our search we found a number of schools that we did not know exsisted. When my son made his top 25 his junior year it sounded like an ESPN broadcast. Once we changed our selection process to ones that fit his criteria we ended up opening the door to many schools that we were unaware of at the beginning of his search.

Ultimatly he ended up at a school that fit his criteria where the coach saw him at the Stanford camp. Until the coach sent him a letter, we were unaware of the school. When all was said and done, the 4 school on his final list were not on his original "ESPN 25."

So do your research, focus on what makes your son "tick," what works for the family and you will be amazed at the number of schools that you may not be aware of that your son can go, learn and become a terrific person.

I don't remember where I heard it but it fits "he will be a person longer than he will be a baseball player."

BBMx2:

You are receiving excellent advice all the way around, and not to belabour the conversation, I can add specific first hand experience about most of the schools you referenced earlier in this string. Each program is excellent and very different. You and your son will instinctively make the right choice
We learned and were guided pretty well along the way from folks who had been down the path before us. I can share a couple of general points that were thoughts and experiences we learned/heard along our slection path several years ago.

First,thank goodness you have a son who is first a student and then a player. He will become attractive to schools that will likely serve him better in the long run assuming he chooses to place the academic part of the college selection equation above the baseball side fo the equation.
Second, and this is a hard point to get initially, is that players, by in large end up gravitating to the right "level" of baseball. There are reasons kids end up in certain programs that we as parents often have a hard time accepting.
The overwhelming majority of the kids represented on this website are not playing at top 25 programs, despite what they might have aspired to. Not everyone can play at Stanford, Wake or Rice for baseball reasons, fair or unfair, even though they may be able to get in as a regular student, but they can play at William and Mary, Davidson, Furman, Richmond, GW, an Ivy, or any one of the many academically selective schools that also plays baseball. That is the point to the response talking about "fit". It is is more than just liking the players, coaches, the price tag, etc. It is the entire package.

Third, Choose a school based on the perceived value of the degree, not the value or look of the baseball cap, the facilities or the number of kids they program has had drafted. If he is good enough to play, the coaches will know that and the rest will take care of itself.
Finally until your son goes through the process, it is hard to fully comprehend the time commitment and sacrifices he will make to balance academics and athletics. It is not high school, pressure exists in and out of the classroom, and "fun" is a relative term. Narrow your choices down to a manageable group of schools and look at things as though you could only play 1 year but were going stay 4. He may not play all 4 years for a variety or reasons, and then again, he may play for years to come.
This is a journey and like you will know when you've reached the right destination. Have an end game in mind and know what you expect to get out of the college experience. The rest will take care if itself
Good luck

dont overlook the deal III liberal arts colleges that are academically in the top 100. There is a lot of academic money out there that may be more than athletic money, and the scholarship is under your students control as in maintaining the grades, not based on baseball ability and/or the coaches latest recruiting class

Baseballmomtwo-now that we're well into the hsbaseball season, any updates on what your son is looking for in a college? Did he decide to go to the Stanford camp this summer? And did his SAT score go up if he took it in March?

Yes, he will be going to the Stanford camp. He was not able to take the SAT because of a band conflict, he is scheduled to take the ACT in a couple of weeks.

how about a showcase, like a pg event that may well be the bell ringer.

Great advice, but one more thing that I do not see mentioned here...do not pick a school/program based on how much he likes the coach! ...seems basic, but all too often the coach is gone in the blink of an eye. Base the "fit" on all the above criteria, not the coach (alone).

Amen Catsuremom!!

how about bucknell?? by the way- duke i think is going to be a great up and coming program under their new leader- sean mcnally is going to put this team together. academically and athletically a great option if realistically you are good enough

quote:

Originally posted by Chris Davis:
by the way- duke i think is going to be a great up and coming program

They just knocked off #1 ranked FSU the other day.

We are in the PG in Austin and he will be playing East Cobb with his select team, hopefully something will come of one of these.

We are working on his video, do we just send it out to the schools he is interested in once it is done along with his select baseball schedule?

baseballmomtwo, My son got into Duke with the exact SAT score your son got. Before he went on his fall visit they asked for his transcripts. At the end of the visit he knew he was going to get in no need to sweat out the whole acceptence process. If a school wants you to play baseball there and they can get you through the admissions office then a few points one way or the other on the SAT will not keep him out. I will say that more than book smarts it takes an incredible amount of discipline and time management skills at the better academic schools to handle the work load and play baseball.

I just happened upon this thread and was struck by one of baseballmomtwo's original comments:

["Right now, he studies and plays baseball. College is more than studying and playing baseball."]

Am I wrong in thinking that studying and playing baseball is about all that college players have time for? It doesn't seem like there's much time left for a real social life or other interests. Perhaps some of the college players' parents can share their perspective/experience.

quote:

Am I wrong in thinking that studying and playing baseball is about all that college players have time for? It doesn't seem like there's much time left for a real social life or other interests. Perhaps some of the college players' parents can share their perspective/experience.

I think these are good questions. Of course things can depend on the course load and the type of degree involved. That said, there is some time for other things than school/baseball imho. Monday's the players typically have off and most of them take advantage of it. My son likes to fish in his spare time and I spoke to him last night (Thurs) after they practiced and he was fishing.

Priorities are the key. School and baseball come first. Leave either of those unattended - even a little, and the prospective student athlete can be in trouble. Freshman have forced study halls so there is a little more structure there. The coaches receive on-going progress reports so if a class is missed, or a poor grade is received, they are the first to know. I told my son "Come home as soon as possible and get your homework out of the way." Whatever time is left can then be enjoyed.

I have said this one hundred times. Baseball has helped my son do better in school. It is like having a parent down there watching over them and making sure things get done

Come springtime, it's pretty much about baseball and studying. Also depends on the schedule, mine plays 4-5 times a week, it keeps him pretty busy. He will be finished with this semester in less than a month, three years completed on track.
Then all he has to worry about is baseball!

Mondays are deemed NCAA day off, but lots of players load up on mondays for the reason. Mine still heads to the field, for conditioning, running, hanging out etc. It's his home away from home.

CD is correct, priority is the key. Fall is generally easier for more outside interests, for freshman it is a big adjustment.

Does it sound like they have much of a life outside baseball and studying, no, but trust me, they find ways to keep busy and do other things, it's important to put it all aside at times and they learn how to do that while developing good time management skills.

Infield 08,
In our experience, and from talking to a lot of parents and players, with a few exceptions, the one "social" aspect of college life that does not blend well with baseball is the Greek system.
Sometimes it is because the coaches discourage it, sometimes it is because the "initiation" issues can very much interfere with baseball, and sometimes it is because, as a player, frat life can interfere with the time discipline needed to balance baseball and academics, especially in the Spring.
I agree with the previous input from TPM and CD that baseball forces student athletes to be better time managers.
We also found that baseball players/games seemed to have quite a good following of female friends.
It may well be different at the DI level, but at a DIII school like Trinity, athletes, male and female, from all sports had terrific friendships.
In addition, the baseball team always had 2-3 teams in the Fall flag football intramurals. Even though those games were sometimes played at 10pm, they were great fun and a terrific aspect of developing chemistry and bonding.
In general, our son's experience at Trinity involved a very active social life. It was different, in some ways, because of baseball, but I don't think he got cheated in any way.

quote:

In our experience, and from talking to a lot of parents and players, with a few exceptions, the one "social" aspect of college life that does not blend well with baseball is the Greek system.

My son must have been one of the exceptions. He was an RA in the "baseball" frat and loved it. Then again, he was always more mature than his age would let on and managed to get his work (academics, etc...) done. Wasn't easy, but as others have stated, time management is essential.

I will admit that for those who are "easily swayed" or don't have the time management skills, the Greek life can be a test.

quote:

I will admit that for those who are "easily swayed" or don't have the time management skills, the Greek life can be a test.

Indeed Frank, indeed

CD,

Especially since one of the writers (Chris Miller) was basing the movie on some of his frat days at Dartmouth College!