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I have posted this before but thought it was a good time of year to post again and especially for some of the new folks.

College recruiting does not have to be so difficult to understand. If you understand it is a business approach to the college game, it won't be so difficult.

As stated before some schools do a very good job at recruiting, some don't. I think this applies to all types of schools, all sizes and in all conferences.

Most recruiters go about their jobs honestly and with all good intentions. They recruit on needs of their program. A school that loses a lot of players to the draft recruits differently than one that doesn't. A recruiter with a winning program needs to work just as hard if not harder than everyone else, because his program has higher expectations in their athletic programs. Some recruiters sit back and let the players come to them (by way of their camp programs and local talent). I do not feel comfortable with this philosophy, lots of times it creates a surplus, that means cuts down the line.

I have heard of some coaches actually turning down some of the best players because they know they would not be needed right away, and they could have a chance to make an impact at another program asap. Some may feel slighted at this suggestion when coach tells them, but should be looked upon as an honest approach to recruiting. Some parents may say, well then why did he go after son in the first place when the rcruiting process began, but honestly some coaches need to go through a season with their current recruits and staff to see where they need to improve upon thier program. No one should take that personally. This also eliminates high transfer out rates and that's why I like the idea of penalizing programs that allow revolving doors.
I know some coaches will recruit the best knowing some will sit, because they do not want them to play anywhere else. That's dishonesty in recruiting, those that give all the other honest guys a bad rap. If a recruiter has done his job, for example, found an excellent choice as a second baseman who has played well at his position and had success, will not look for another second baseman to compete for the job the following season, but for one who will most likely be ready in a few years to replace that second baseman. I would tend to question a program that feels a need to have all the best second baseman in their state on their team at one given time. There is going to be a lot of unhappy second baseman in that program. Unhappy = high transfer rate.

Recruits are placed in three categories, A,B,C. The A player is usually the one who they target with hopes he will commit. The A recruit is usually one of those "top ranked" players. The A player may also be a solid player, not ranked as high as others, with good grades who can make an impact immediately. Or the A player may be a player who may not play much his first year, needs development, but usually has more talent needed for that program than the B or C player. The A player may be the best HS player in the country, most likely never set foot on campus, but gives the program credibility for recruiting.

B and C players are players that are being recruited, and most likely given offers if the A player committs to another program. They may not be what you perceive as a good enough player for that program, but the coach sees lots of potential and B and C player works into his budget. He is given a smaller offer than A and given a chance to work hard and possibly become a starter someday. Or told in advance that while he may never see an actual start of a game, he can make an impact as a sub or a reliever. Or the coach just has other plans for him down the road. I beleive most transfers we see at one time where the B or C player. No program can have or afford all A recruits and most programs are mostly made up of B and C players.

What I found interesting is that my son was an A recruit at some schools and most likely a B recruit at other schools. While some think he could have gone to play wherever he wanted, that basically was not true. He had choices which made it easier, but he certainly was never the first choice for many coaches.

The important part is that the player and parent try to understand where son falls as an A,B or C recruit. That's the hard part. I think most parents and players who take an honest approach to the ABC's of recruiting are the ones who find the best fit in the end. It helps for the player to set goals that are realistic. If a player knows he is the A recruit for a smaller program and possibly a C recruit for a larger program, he needs to understand the implications. I know that some will argue that point, that they have no problem with their son going into a larger program and working tail off for a start, but most likely the day he arrives the coach who has recruited him knows how and when he will be played for the first year or two anyway.
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So thats what A level recruit meant. My son was told he was an A level recruit by his dream school and never got an offer after months and months of contact. When the coach said that I didn't know what it meant other than it sounded good.
There is another issue that comes into play. That is Immediate Impact or Depth. Transfers are impact and HS guys are depth for a year or 2 down the road. Depending on situation some colleges will go heavy on JC guys one year and heavily on HS guys the next.
"A" players don't always get offers from their dream schools.

I do not agree that all transfers make immediate impacts. I think many schools go heavy on Juco players because they have not done a good job of recruitng and developing their younger players.
I have seen some JUCO players come into a program and make immediate impact and many who have not. And remember, many programs actually over recruit and then send those players to JUCO to return later on into the program.
JMO
This is interesting because they offered to set him up in a local JC near by or have him walk on. no scholaship money until maybe spring semester if at all. Until now I never realized what was going on.
When the coach said they saw him as an A recruit I assumed that he was going there. He was so excited when I told him the coach had called him an A recruit.We were Just waiting for the offer. Fortunatly we did have options that we liked as well.
First, TPM....thanks for ALL of your posts. I always seem to take at least 2 or 3 good things from every thread you start.

I would like to make a comment about impact players and juco transfers. If you can play, you WILL play, reagardless of your age/year.
I realize this is only one specfic school, but look at UVA last season:
Jeremy Farrell-3B (FRESHMAN)
48 GP, 45 GS
.324-2-32

Greg Miclat-SS (FRESHMAN)
61-57
.314-0-22, led team in SB's
(Bio states was recruited by UNC and The Citadel)

David Adams-2B (FRESHMAN)
62-62
.318-5-49, #2 on team in HRs
(Bio states he was recruited by LSU, South Carolina and GA Tech)

While UVA's postseason performance may be considered disappointing, they were ranked in the top 25 all season long.
Coach O'Connor is making things happen at UVA. I certainly don't know where Farrell, Miclat and Adams were A players(while being recruited), but appeared to me (I saw them play), that they performed like A players this past season.
Last edited by jbbaseball
jbbaseball,
Thanks!
David Adams was a team mate of my sons for many years when they were younger.

He definetly was an "A" player. He also was a highly ranked HS player and projected top rounds who was drafted in a lower round (20s) for his talent, due to his strong committment to UVA.

I also know that he would have liked to have played at Clemson. The position he played was tied up for at least 3 years (Taylor Harbin). I had a long talk with his dad about this a few years ago, he told me that the coaches at Clemson were honest and up front about everything. He chose a program in the ACC where he would play immediately.

I think that UVA is a perfect example of good recruiting. Finding young talented freshman and allowing them to play and develop early, instead of restocking each year.

JMO.
Last edited by TPM
quote:
Jeremy Farrell-3B (FRESHMAN)
48 GP, 45 GS
.324-2-32



Has been an A list player from Ohio since day 1.

As compiled by Jeff Fisher, the BuckeyeScout 100
CLASS OF 2005 "TOP 100"
Rank, Name, Position, B/T, Ht/Wt, High School, College
1. Jeremy Farrell, 3B/RHP, R/R, 6-3/205, Cleveland St Ignatius, VIRGINIA
2. David Duncan, LHP, L/L, 6-9/200, New Richmond, GEORGIA TECH
3. Kurt Smith, RHP, R/R, 6-3/215, Cinti Country Day, OHIO UNIV
4. Jon Niese, LHP, L/L, 6-3/190, Defiance, CINCINNATI
5. Eric Surkamp, LHP, L/L, 6-4/195, Cinti Moeller, NC STATE
6. Steve Zemanek, LHP, L/L, 6-3/185, Cleveland VASJ, AKRON
7. Marty Baird, RHP/SS, R/R, 6-1/175, Van Buren, BOWLING GREEN
8. Jake Hale, RHP, R/R, 6-6/180, Albany Alexander, OHIO STATE
9. Jason Christian, SS, L/R, 6-2/160, Loveland, MICHIGAN
10. Jordan Petraitis, SS, R/R, 6-3/185, Akron Manchester, MIAMI OH
Last edited by OLDSLUGGER8
quote:
Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
I think we all believe this is faulty logic. In fact the team did worse than the previous year.
I know several of my son's former teammates pitched 40-60 innings in their freshman years. One had the 2nd best stats on his team. The guy who had the best stats just got signed by NYY and was a senior.


I am confused. EDIT[Were you referring to my first post?] First, What faulty logic are you talking about?
Second, UVA:
2005: 41-20, 14-14 ACC (0-2 in Regionals)
2006: 47-15, 21-9 ACC (1-2 in Regionals)
How can you say they did worse?
Third, I don't think I was very clear in what I was trying to say in post. They were a few previous comments about JUCO transfers making an immediate impact and that some coaches wait for players to develop. I was just citing one example, but I was attempting to show that one D1 program (we can debate how "good" they are) chose to start 3 freshmen in their infield, and that coach seemed fairly pleased with their performance, based on Games played games started.
Last edited by jbbaseball
quote:
Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:

I also know that he [DAVID ADAMS] would have liked to have played at Clemson. The position he played was tied up for at least 3 years (Taylor Harbin). I had a long talk with his dad about this a few years ago, he told me that the coaches at Clemson were honest and up front about everything. He chose a program in the ACC where he would play immediately.

I think that UVA is a perfect example of good recruiting. Finding young talented freshman and allowing them to play and develop early, instead of restocking each year.

JMO.


There you go again TPM! Big Grin

A point that has been made before, but for those new to the recruiting process and are looking for assistance in school selection (such as our family Wink....one issue that prospective players need to look at. Is the position that I want to play going to be "tied up" for 2-3 years?
I think it is a personal decision, but one has to ask:
-Do I want to go to a particular program and have to wait 2-3 years before I get to play?
OR
-Is there a school that is a good fit (as good as school #1), but where I can immediately step in a make an impact?

Many other factors need to be considered, but I think this is a great one to add to the "list"!!!!
Last edited by jbbaseball
The reason I brought it up was because a lot of people are not aware of the reallities of college ball. Over recruiting, having to tryout to make the roster/travel roster, fighting for playin time, limited playing time and so on. Many of the freshmen were studs on their teams and all of a sudden they don't get much playing time. As posters noted many schools have large transfer rates.
I know our Elite/HS coaches never pointed out the realities. They stressed working hard, keeping marks up and you might get a scholarship to a US college. Most guys do not understand that this is just the beginning and there are no guarantees.
Some teams over recruit position players so that it is almost impossible to get playing time no matter how good you are. I think they have it much worse than pitchers.
Here are a few things we have experienced so far with the big schools. My boy is a ranked player.

Certain college recruiters like to tell many kids they are their # 1 choice for a position, string them along, almost try to remove them mentally from the market. Very unfair. Certain bigger schools are the guiltiest.

My advice, call them yourself and ask what the offer is. If they dawdle, ask them what the holdup is if your boy is their # 1 guy????

The responses are creative, then just move on.

There is nothing wrong with a parent picking up the phone to sort out the pretenders from the contenders.

PART 2 LATER
Last edited by Bully'sMom
A good coach plays the most talented players on the team, freshman or upper classman. There are many freshman who play their first year.

Most of these freshman are high profile players many of them turning down pro ball to play in college. I would agree that generally freshman will not start, but there are many who do. In the past two years in the ACC I have seen many freshman get the start at all positions. Some coaches tend to rely on experience over talent during the regular season, which often puzzles me. You can't get experience if you do not play, even if only as a sub or in relief.

Most pitchers begin out of the bull pen, to build their confidance , it's quite differnt pitching in front of a HS crowd and then 5-6K. They usually need to work up to a start to be able to last 5-7 innings in a game. Also freshman pitchers put in limited time for health reasons because of the possibility they might be around for 4-5 years. Pitchers are expected to put in at least 100 innings as a weekend starter. You can never have enough arms, and the key to a successful program is depth in the pitching staff. Some people balk at the amount of pitchers on a team, I beleive you can never have enough.

Many players come in as bobblehead suggests having much success in HS, only to find out the college game is played on a different level and there are 45 other players you have to compete with.

There was only one school that told my son he was the #1 recruit, he doesn't go there. What most coaches told him was that he was a highly regarded pitcher that could help make an impact right away. That made more sense to him but he was prepared for the recruiting experience.

Bullysmom,
I tend to disagree with you, there is a lot wrong with a parent picking up the phone to call a coach and ask what the offer is without an offer. That's up to your son. There's no harm in a parent asking where their son stands in coaches plans, but I wouldn't initiate a phone call for an offer. Most likely you are not going to get the answer you want to hear. Something about a parent picking up the phone to ask how much they are offereing without an offer just doesn't feel right for most coaches.

One other thing in college recruiting. There are many programs that will recruit parents as well as the player. Sometimes they need to get an idea where the parent stands, I found this to be true in the case of the schools that were very far away. A coach is not going to waste their time if a parent wants their son to stay close to home, insists that he gets playing time, etc.

JMO.
Last edited by TPM
We too are in the midst of this recruitment process. Contacts began July 1. Son is trying to decide whether to just wait for spring despite continuing to get calls, followups, repeats and new. One of the first D1 programs to contact our son was highly recommended as a good fit. He visited, & was made an attractive offer. The coach said he didn't understand players making early commitments and to not feel pressured. They had my son's SATs, his transcripts. They made weekly calls. My son thought carefully and finally called them when he was ready to commit. They'd been heavily recruiting. All folks we talked to ranked this program and its coaches as honest, above board, open. We are a little stunned. Thus, son is now holding back, feeling reticent and doubting what other coaches may say. What is the point of being recruited heavily, presented with a solid attractive offer, told to think carefully, not rush into a decision ... then find out when ready to verbally commit, that the offer no longer stands? This process would be better done a second or third time through. This first time is hard, hard, hard. I suspect all will work out fine in the end, but getting there packs surprises for the naive.
Last edited by bleacherfan

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