College Roster Question

@Francis7 posted:

I may have some of this screwed up because I am getting some of the information 3rd hand.

There was a kid. Let's call him Eric Bazooka, which is not his real name. He was a 2023 HS grad and kind of a local big deal. Committed to go D1. I hadn't thought about him in a while but I recently thought of him, randomly, and wondered how he was doing. But, I didn't see him on the D1 roster.

So, I asked a friend who knew of him better. And, this is what the friend said:

He went to the D1 in the fall of 2023 and it didn't go well. So, he transferred to a Juco for the Spring 2024.

He played like 3 games at the Juco at the start of the season last year and then decided he was done. He quit the team and dropped out of school.

Now, this is the strange part. My friend then said "And, then, the coach dropped him from the roster."

I asked what does that mean? How do you drop a player from the roster AFTER the season has started and AFTER the kid has played in some games?

My friend said: "He was wiped from the roster online on the school website. He's just gone, like he never existed. If you go to the stats page, his stats are there with no name, just a uniform number. If you go to the individual box scores on the site, from that season, you can see his name. But, that's the only way you can find him. If you look at the roster and stats from 2024, there's no mention of him whatsoever. And, I know he was on the website roster when the season started. The story I heard was that 'the coach dropped him from the roster' when he said he was quitting."

FWIW, I looked after he told me this and he was right. Every he described was true in terms of the online roster, team stats and box scores.

My question now is: Why would a coach do this? It's not like he can pick up another player in-season and replace him. And, it's obvious the kid was there and played, if you knew and looked at the boxscores.

Is this to try and preserve his eligibility? Or, something else? Maybe the coach doesn't want to confuse opponents in-season that someone is on the roster that's not physically there? Or, is it a petty retaliation move because the kid quit?

I have never heard of someone being "dropped from the roster" after a season has started and he actually played in a game. Is this an actual thing?

It is a common practice,  school websites are not required to list keep inactive players on the roster page.

I'm not going to get in the weeds of how data should be governed.

Remember game stats are governed by the overall organization, thus NCAA, NAIA, NJCAA, etc have the real numbers and controls

From a data goverance perspective, CBI will be more accurate than school's website.

@Francis7

CBI is more than likely correct but almost all impact programs keep past rosters available on a pdf file.

@TPM posted:

@Francis7

CBI is more than likely correct but almost all impact programs keep past rosters available on a pdf file.

@TPM it will depend on what the school determines is there official roster and if the pdf is available for the public.

Normally the pdf is a snapshot taken at the beginning of the year.  If they perform the same task at the end of the season (using their website as the source), they will still have the same issue of not listing all players.

Note, we became aware of this issue in 2016 when Coastal Carolina won the CWS.  Start of season they had 35 players, at the end of season (29).

1 player played against my son in HS, the other played at a JUCO with him in 2017.  Found out he had TJ Surgery, thus he was removed from the website roster.

Currently as we are reconciling 2025 season, we've already found players that were removed from rosters since the beginning of the season for all levels.

Data governance has always been the issue.

CBI, as mentioned, it depends on how much of an impact the program has in college baseball and college sports in general.

Done here.

I've seen stats with no name, just a number, on old stat/roster pages.  You can usually pick through the box scores for each game and figure out who they were (or else news reports with box scores).

@TPM posted:

CBI, as mentioned, it depends on how much of an impact the program has in college baseball and college sports in general.

Done here.

@tpm unfortunately your statement didn't mention overall impact it has in college baseball, thus maybe it was implied.

Note, as you are aware from a student athlete/family perspective, in order to make certain decisions concerning right fit and $$$ , information is required.

Note, this goes beyond the official spring roster, ie the publishing of fall rosters, etc.

Do you trust the coach word on his roster management approach, how can you verify?

It is about transparency,  IMHO @Francis7 is referring to this.

@anotherparent posted:

I've seen stats with no name, just a number, on old stat/roster pages.  You can usually pick through the box scores for each game and figure out who they were (or else news reports with box scores).

@anotherparent you can,

Note when a family is researching schools, Box scores will not have the following certain top level information.

Level 1 research is mostly the following, then you quickly  move on

How many players have been on the roster?

Where are players from?

What is there primary position?

What is the player attrition rate?

Is the player a transfer student (4 yr or juco)

Why did the player leave? did he transfer?

So, apparently THIS happens. But, the question remains WHY? What's the purpose and benefit of "dropping someone from the roster"?

When my son was cut from a P4 in the fall his name was on the roster for about 2-3 more days.  Then, poof....it was gone or you got a 404 error code.

The only way you'd know he was there is by his Baseball Cube profile.

@Master P posted:

When my son was cut from a P4 in the fall his name was on the roster for about 2-3 more days.  Then, poof....it was gone or you got a 404 error code.

The only way you'd know he was there is by his Baseball Cube profile.

That's actually common. And, I get it if a kid never appeared in a regular spring game. But, why wipe a kid who actually played for you?

Whenever I've seen this it's seemed to be player specific. Meaning it wasn't a consistent practice that the team/school followed but on a case by case basis.

Are there actual NCAA rules that govern what is on a schools website? I don't think there are. For the sake of transparency it would be nice.

Some schools list a fall roster with more than 40 players, and put bios for each player.  Then when they cut down to 40 for the spring season, they have to delete all the extras.

Some schools don't post a full roster with bios until the start of the spring season.

Personally I think that if they are one of those schools that cuts a lot of players, it would be better (i.e. not get hopes up) to do the latter.

@nycdad posted:

Whenever I've seen this it's seemed to be player specific. Meaning it wasn't a consistent practice that the team/school followed but on a case by case basis.

Retaliatory petty move then maybe?

@anotherparent posted:

Some schools list a fall roster with more than 40 players, and put bios for each player.  Then when they cut down to 40 for the spring season, they have to delete all the extras.

Some schools don't post a full roster with bios until the start of the spring season.

Personally I think that if they are one of those schools that cuts a lot of players, it would be better (i.e. not get hopes up) to do the latter.

Some schools don't care, and have a roster of 50 some players in the spring.  NIL has changed everything.

@Francis7 posted:

Retaliatory petty move then maybe?

No idea. Not fair to the coaches or players to speculate IMO.

@Francis7 posted:

So, apparently THIS happens. But, the question remains WHY? What's the purpose and benefit of "dropping someone from the roster"?

Why do you think, there are different reasons. If it is that important, then just list them.

I would not spent too much time trying to get in the head of why information is managed a certain way.

Otherwise you will stay in the rabbit hole.

@Master P posted:

When my son was cut from a P4 in the fall his name was on the roster for about 2-3 more days.  Then, poof....it was gone or you got a 404 error code.

The only way you'd know he was there is by his Baseball Cube profile.

Baseball cube may or may not have his profile.

@anotherparent posted:

Some schools list a fall roster with more than 40 players, and put bios for each player.  Then when they cut down to 40 for the spring season, they have to delete all the extras.

Some schools don't post a full roster with bios until the start of the spring season.

Personally I think that if they are one of those schools that cuts a lot of players, it would be better (i.e. not get hopes up) to do the latter.

@anotherparent what you are alluding to is a different issue.

1 - fall roster (unofficial)  vs spring roster (official).

- Fall rosters are nice to have but not mandatory.  Note, many teams will not post their full fall roster.

2 - what @francis7 is alluding to is in-season changes to official spring roster.   adding is fine. physically deleting corrupts the system.

CBI accounts for this data management issue.

@Master P posted:

Some schools don't care, and have a roster of 50 some players in the spring.  NIL has changed everything.

@Master P  I don't know if there is a direct correlation between NIL and how SID manage content on their website.

Until this post I had not thought of or listened to this song in years.

https://youtu.be/5XcKBmdfpWs?si=0Q6mzGaJezWq-eoq

@RJM posted:

Until this post I had not thought of or listened to this song in years.

https://youtu.be/5XcKBmdfpWs?si=0Q6mzGaJezWq-eoq

Well done.

I mean who really cares.

@RJM posted:

Until this post I had not thought of or listened to this song in years.

https://youtu.be/5XcKBmdfpWs?si=0Q6mzGaJezWq-eoq

Could be your walk up song considering how much time you spend here and on BF 101. Remind me again...when was the last time your kids played? Was that when Reagan was President?

@TPM posted:

Well done.

I mean who really cares.

Just people who want to understand how things work. I can imagine that it's not interesting to those who already know everything or think that they do.

This is about JUCO eligibility.

Ask AI but make sure that you include JUCO not NCAA D1 baseball in your question.

@TPM posted:

This is about JUCO eligibility.

Ask AI but make sure that you include JUCO not NCAA D1 baseball in your question.

Not even close. It's about why a HC would "drop you from the roster" after you already appeared in games? What's the root cause for doing it and what's the goal? Is it even above board? And, for whose benefit is it done, if there's any benefit at all?

Francis;

maybe the AD, President of School or the Football Coach? It is possible.

Bob

@Francis7 posted:

Not even close. It's about why a HC would "drop you from the roster" after you already appeared in games? What's the root cause for doing it and what's the goal? Is it even above board? And, for whose benefit is it done, if there's any benefit at all?

It’s been ten years since my son played college ball. Are you suggesting when people’s kids stop playing they have nothing to add and should hit the road? I coached future college players through 16u. I still have more baseball knowledge in one pinkie than you have in your entire body.

Are you suggesting Fenway leave? Consultant? Goosegg? Keewart? There are plenty more.

If you knew more than you do you might realize those who have been there and done it can provide quality advice because they’ve become emotionally detached from the situation.

I don’t understand why you ask half the questions you ask. A lot of them fall under not having any control. You know the mantra on this board about control. Others, like this one fall under control”why?” “Who cares!”

How many times have you posted about a friend who heard it from a friend, who heard it from a friend, who heard it from another …

It’s a better song. I think I’ll listen to it.

What? That's not even close to what he was asking. There are probably thousands of people who just lurk here, afraid of being made to feel stupid by know it all, repetitive story bullies.

@Consultant posted:

Francis;

maybe the AD, President of School or the Football Coach? It is possible.

Bob

All of that is possible, as you well know

@Dadbelly2023 posted:

What? That's not even close to what he was asking. There are probably thousands of people who just lurk here, afraid of being made to feel stupid by know it all, repetitive story bullies.

Thank you.

I appreciate someone else calling it out.

@RJM posted:

It’s been ten years since my son played college ball. Are you suggesting when people’s kids stop playing they have nothing to add and should hit the road? I coached future college players through 16u. I still have more baseball knowledge in one pinkie than you have in your entire body.

Are you suggesting Fenway leave? Consultant? Goosegg? Keewart? There are plenty more.

If you knew more than you do you might realize those who have been there and done it can provide quality advice because they’ve become emotionally detached from the situation.

I don’t understand why you ask half the questions you ask. A lot of them fall under not having any control. You know the mantra on this board about control. Others, like this one fall under control”why?” “Who cares!”

How many times have you posted about a friend who heard it from a friend, who heard it from a friend, who heard it from another …

It’s a better song. I think I’ll listen to it.

For the record, yes, there's a lot of members who are older and haven't had kids playing for a long time. MANY and MOST of them are valued and appreciated for sharing without judging, being patient and understanding without being demeaning, genuinely wanting to help without wanting a platform to pound their chest, and never coming across as being superior and making you feel like the kid who asked the "dumb question" in class and who then goes out of their way to call you out and mocks and teases you to show the rest of the class why they should be prom king.

And, then there's you.

Congratulations. I am going to do something I should have done a long time ago, I'm putting you on my ignore list. Say whatever you want about me now. I'm sure you will also ridicule my son too because that's not beneath you either. But, I won't see it and my day will be better for it.

Find someone else to play your reindeer games with and get yourself off. The second after I activate that ignore feature, I will forget you ever existed.

@Francis7 posted:

For the record, yes, there's a lot of members who are older and haven't had kids playing for a long time. MANY and MOST of them are valued and appreciated for sharing without judging, being patient and understanding without being demeaning, genuinely wanting to help without wanting a platform to pound their chest, and never coming across as being superior and making you feel like the kid who asked the "dumb question" in class and who then goes out of their way to call you out and mocks and teases you to show the rest of the class why they should be prom king.

And, then there's you.

Congratulations. I am going to do something I should have done a long time ago, I'm putting you on my ignore list. Say whatever you want about me now. I'm sure you will also ridicule my son too because that's not beneath you either. But, I won't see it and my day will be better for it.

Find someone else to play your reindeer games with and get yourself off. The second after I activate that ignore feature, I will forget you ever existed.

Your kid is in college ball. You’ve been here since your son started high school. It was when I recommended this board to you on another site. A lot of the questions you ask I would expect from the parent/poster if a twelve year old. It’s why I once joked about you on another site you remind me of Carlton Blanchard on Wings.

“If you carpeted Florida how long would it take to vacuum?”

”If it’s to die for how come nobody dies?”

“If the moon hits your eye like a big pizza pie what would a door knob feel like?”

He played in 3 games and quit (this, after it didn't go well at his previous school).  Without giving it much thought, I'd probably drop him from the roster too.  Not out of any sort of spite or resentment and not sure why you would suggest it is a retaliatory petty move.  Why have someone who isn't part of the team show up as part of the team?  I would prefer my roster to be an accurate reflection.  Simple as that.

But as others have said, could be tons of different reasons.  I also agree with several others... why would it matter?  It's not like there are significant stats, good or bad, meaningful to the team or player.  Probably doing the kid a favor, if anything.  Should he pursue another school, dropping out and quitting may or may not have been for valid reasons but is hardly a good look, particularly if this is the second time things didn't go well.  Heck, the removal may have been at the kid's request.  We could speculate all day.

@cabbagedad

Good response. Thank you.

He played 3 games and quit.

That's it in a nutshell.

Why is the coach always the bad guy?

@cabbagedad posted:

He played in 3 games and quit (this, after it didn't go well at his previous school).  Without giving it much thought, I'd probably drop him from the roster too.  Not out of any sort of spite or resentment and not sure why you would suggest it is a retaliatory petty move.  Why have someone who isn't part of the team show up as part of the team?  I would prefer my roster to be an accurate reflection.  Simple as that.

But as others have said, could be tons of different reasons.  I also agree with several others... why would it matter?  It's not like there are significant stats, good or bad, meaningful to the team or player.  Probably doing the kid a favor, if anything.  Should he pursue another school, dropping out and quitting may or may not have been for valid reasons but is hardly a good look, particularly if this is the second time things didn't go well.  Heck, the removal may have been at the kid's request.  We could speculate all day.

@cabbagedad from a records retention perspective. once the official roster is published, players should not be physically deleted from system, especially if they have statistics. The player should be marked as inactive.  

The coach does not have to state the reason:

Left Team

Injured

etc

Otherwise, the school is giving an inaccurate account of how the roster and how is managed.

@CollegebaseballInsights posted:

@cabbagedad from a records retention perspective. once the official roster is published, players should not be physically deleted from system, especially if they have statistics. The player should be marked as inactive.  

The coach does not have to state the reason:

Left Team

Injured

etc

Otherwise, the school is giving an inaccurate account of how the roster and how is managed.

I agree. Seems deceptive to me.

@Francis7 posted:

I agree. Seems deceptive to me.

@Francis7 ok. don't be naive.  there is different version of the truth.

Bottom line work and understand the variables you can control and can't control.

From a business process perspective, The CBI data management strategy has know about these issues since 2016. Case in point Coastal Carolina.

''

time to move on from the thread.

Late to the party as usual, here are a couple of thoughts.

If you’re looking for player stats, go to the governing body of the conference or league. If they ever made it on the field, there’s a 99.9% chance the data is there. You can also look to free sites like BaseballCube or excellent paid services like CBI.

I believe most college websites are relatively uncontrolled, and the data managed by student admins. IMO it’s unlikely that a HC would care or be bitter enough to have an actual player stricken from digital team existence.

That being said, my sister’s father-in-law (RIP) was an animator for Disney (Officially Fantasia and Dumbo) but due to a labor strike in 1941 his name was removed from the credits of Bambi, Pinocchio, Snow White, etc..). If a relationship ends badly enough, some can be small and spiteful.

@JucoDad posted:

Late to the party as usual, here are a couple of thoughts.

If you’re looking for player stats, go to the governing body of the conference or league. If they ever made it on the field, there’s a 99.9% chance the data is there. You can also look to free sites like BaseballCube or excellent paid services like CBI.

I believe most college websites are relatively uncontrolled, and the data managed by student admins. IMO it’s unlikely that a HC would care or be bitter enough to have an actual player stricken from digital team existence.

That being said, my sister’s father-in-law (RIP) was an animator for Disney (Officially Fantasia and Dumbo) but due to a labor strike in 1941 his name was removed from the credits of Bambi, Pinocchio, Snow White, etc..). If a relationship ends badly enough, some can be small and spiteful.

@JucoDad very good perspective.   I believe baseball cube data governance is 1 ab.   Also, from  data governance. baseball cube may or may not resolve data that is initially missing.  Note, the sid's at NCAA-D1 do a very good job, in the past, HBCU have been a challenge.

As you go down to other divisions, information about player attributes e.g. (hometown, state, etc) might be missing or inaccurate annually

Thus it depends on what information a person is use in order to make the best decision for right fit from a roster perspective.

Multiple options are available, it depends on how much time a student athlete or family wants to spend evaluating schools.

Depending on complexity

School website - 30 mins (some information) not available (annual transfers) player turnover, etc

baseball cube - depends 15 to 30 mins (depends)

CBI - Less than 10 mins per school

CBI cost is less than 40 cents per day

And if a schools financial or academic situation is important, that is a bridge that one must cross.