As irrelevant as this question is, I'm going to answer it. The southern hockey programs like Alabama-Huntsville have the same opportunity to enter Canada to recruit as any other college. It seems they do since 20 of their 26 hockey players are from Canada.quote:Originally posted by justbaseball:
When are the northern schools going to build hockey rinks for the southern schools "to level the playing field?"
quote:It will be a pitiful three week delay next year (March 1st start date) and I predict the Northern schools will do even worse than they are this year.
CD,
It isn't like you to make statements like that without having collecting the data. Can we make an assessment this early, or are the short term results a means to back up ones opinion. No rip on you, that's the way we all back up our opinions. Mid-majors in every D1 sport have tried to level the playing field in one respect or another in regard to the "bullies", but baseball has used climate which is visible as the trump card. IMHO, it did not work as planned. This result did not help anything and maybe this is the only NCAA sport that will never have parity. A possible equitable solution is baseball being a two season fair weather sport . A Fall non-conference season and Spring Conference season by everyone where weather is not an issue and an NCAA and NIT type tournaments in late Spring. That's an ugly solution for the purist, but I see it as not working as a "whole" as it is.
Before I'm strung up and quartered keep in mind that I'm on a heavy dose of cold medicine.
We sit in the comfort of our armchairs and rip on policy but the bottom line is the passion both sides have for the college game would not lead them to destroy it. It's just their look at it, and their thought on how to make it better.
Has anyone heard AD comments on both sides in regard to the changes or is it just some coaches that have the issues.
It is great fun to debate this situation but I truly prefer to worry about things I can have some control over--like my bills for my instance-- sure I don't like the price of oil for my home but without it I have no heat so what do I do ?--call my supplier and ask what does it cost me this month---do I tell him I won't pay it--NO WAY--my wife likes her hot showers in the morning and since I am in the house all day I like heat and house at 60 degrees---
There is a real world folks !!!! And it ain't the world of the NCAA
There is a real world folks !!!! And it ain't the world of the NCAA
rz
That is one way to get around the problem and our weather in the Northern Climate is great for baseball but the college will then say they are losing recruiting time because of all the prime HS player events in the fall especially here in the Northeast. I can tell you that the Fall season is prime time for us to have our players seen---if the colleges are playing on the weekends they will not be at the tournament we attend---it is a two edged sword we deal with here---but like I have said before the Northern college have been playing this schedule for years and have learned how to deal with it--if the warm weather schools learn how to deal with it the better it will all be-- and they will all play the same amount of games from Day one to the end
That is one way to get around the problem and our weather in the Northern Climate is great for baseball but the college will then say they are losing recruiting time because of all the prime HS player events in the fall especially here in the Northeast. I can tell you that the Fall season is prime time for us to have our players seen---if the colleges are playing on the weekends they will not be at the tournament we attend---it is a two edged sword we deal with here---but like I have said before the Northern college have been playing this schedule for years and have learned how to deal with it--if the warm weather schools learn how to deal with it the better it will all be-- and they will all play the same amount of games from Day one to the end
tr,
I agree, and there are issues. I'm just throwing things out on the table for discussion and heads up to some of the issues that could be brought up.
Football recruits during their season and the off seasons, so does basketball.
I agree, and there are issues. I'm just throwing things out on the table for discussion and heads up to some of the issues that could be brought up.
Football recruits during their season and the off seasons, so does basketball.
I have asked many cold-weathered D1 ballplayers their ultimate college baseball goal. Unanimously, the answer was CWS. Their 2nd answer was a Conference ring.
The RPI is a poor measuring tool, biased to the warm-weathered programs. What they should do to give these kids a fair shot is to "Regionalize" the Regionals, as they did in the past.
Mid-majors get a bid for winning their Conference tournament, and at-large bids go the teams that have a gate..........
Cold-weather and Mid-conferences should get a bid for the regular season winner AND the conference tournament winner.
The 2007 at-large bids:
Michigan
Memphis
Virginia
Oregon State
Cal State Fullerton
Minnesota
Long Beach State
UCLA
Pepperdine
Texas
UC Irvine
Wake Forest
Wichita State
Arizona
Nebraska
Mississippi
Southern Mississippi
Troy
East Carolina
Western Carolina
South Carolina
North Carolina State
Florida State
Mississippi State
Stetson
Clemson
St. John's
Baylor
Louisiana-Lafayette
Arkansas
Oklahoma State
Missouri
Miami, Florida
Louisville
The RPI is a poor measuring tool, biased to the warm-weathered programs. What they should do to give these kids a fair shot is to "Regionalize" the Regionals, as they did in the past.
Mid-majors get a bid for winning their Conference tournament, and at-large bids go the teams that have a gate..........
Cold-weather and Mid-conferences should get a bid for the regular season winner AND the conference tournament winner.
The 2007 at-large bids:
Michigan
Memphis
Virginia
Oregon State
Cal State Fullerton
Minnesota
Long Beach State
UCLA
Pepperdine
Texas
UC Irvine
Wake Forest
Wichita State
Arizona
Nebraska
Mississippi
Southern Mississippi
Troy
East Carolina
Western Carolina
South Carolina
North Carolina State
Florida State
Mississippi State
Stetson
Clemson
St. John's
Baylor
Louisiana-Lafayette
Arkansas
Oklahoma State
Missouri
Miami, Florida
Louisville
The rule was not exactly made to improve the APR, it was made to even the playing field for when practice begins. Too many coaches complianing that the warm weather schools were hitting the field too early while the colder weather schools could not.
Someone along the way figured out that it MIGHT help the APR by allowing players to spend more time in the classroom in January and February. But didn't realize it would be less for many in march, april and maybe may (depending when schools let out). I hear it's tough on the schools in quarter mesters.
I have been watching, lots of injuries already, something that happpens when you have more playing time and less in the gym for conditioning and giving bodies a chance to rest and recover, all while going to class. These aren't professsionals they are student athletes. Juggling pitching schedules, bad weather, double headers, I hear there are a lot of coaches not happy, north, south, east, west.
Do you have to play 56 games, no, but where do you cut? Larger conferences play 30 games in conference play, they need to also include other games for their RPI.
I don't have to worry about it, but mine played 5 days a week and many of those games were home and it still was NOT easy. Schools that don't have to travel, it's much easier over those that do, that does NOT level the playing field one bit, IMO.
Being 60 miles away for a night game may not be all that far, get into extra innings and you don't arrive back until midnight, then put away all your gear, shower, and study if you have to, up early for class.
Northern schools were playing a condensed schedule to wait for better weather and suddenly realized their RPI's from playing each other would never get them into the NCAA field. They also had trouble recruiting, not offering the player more competitive schedules. Many colder weather teams with smart coaches have been playing that for years to play against stronger better weather teams and usually will make the NCAA field, which is the goal of MOST every college coach.
Let's stop living in the past and what WAS, even with 5 games a week, you could be on the bubble as a student and it didn't matter, now with the APR it DOES.
Regardless of where you are, this is NOT a good thing for college baseball, trying to play the standard 56 games in too short of a time doesn't help anyone.
And college coaches DO nOT want to shorten teh playing season (games).
Someone along the way figured out that it MIGHT help the APR by allowing players to spend more time in the classroom in January and February. But didn't realize it would be less for many in march, april and maybe may (depending when schools let out). I hear it's tough on the schools in quarter mesters.
I have been watching, lots of injuries already, something that happpens when you have more playing time and less in the gym for conditioning and giving bodies a chance to rest and recover, all while going to class. These aren't professsionals they are student athletes. Juggling pitching schedules, bad weather, double headers, I hear there are a lot of coaches not happy, north, south, east, west.
Do you have to play 56 games, no, but where do you cut? Larger conferences play 30 games in conference play, they need to also include other games for their RPI.
I don't have to worry about it, but mine played 5 days a week and many of those games were home and it still was NOT easy. Schools that don't have to travel, it's much easier over those that do, that does NOT level the playing field one bit, IMO.
Being 60 miles away for a night game may not be all that far, get into extra innings and you don't arrive back until midnight, then put away all your gear, shower, and study if you have to, up early for class.
Northern schools were playing a condensed schedule to wait for better weather and suddenly realized their RPI's from playing each other would never get them into the NCAA field. They also had trouble recruiting, not offering the player more competitive schedules. Many colder weather teams with smart coaches have been playing that for years to play against stronger better weather teams and usually will make the NCAA field, which is the goal of MOST every college coach.
Let's stop living in the past and what WAS, even with 5 games a week, you could be on the bubble as a student and it didn't matter, now with the APR it DOES.
Regardless of where you are, this is NOT a good thing for college baseball, trying to play the standard 56 games in too short of a time doesn't help anyone.
And college coaches DO nOT want to shorten teh playing season (games).
TPM
I will ignore the "living in the past" bit and go from there
Injuries; who says the players werent working out before the start of official practice--good players on good teams do what they have to do to be ready and it is all legal
Nothing has changed schedule wise in the cold weather areas---it has impacted the warm weather schools and they do not like the intrusion to their world
I will ignore the "living in the past" bit and go from there
Injuries; who says the players werent working out before the start of official practice--good players on good teams do what they have to do to be ready and it is all legal
Nothing has changed schedule wise in the cold weather areas---it has impacted the warm weather schools and they do not like the intrusion to their world
You kept bringing up that past, this was not about when your son went to school, and it's not even about when mine did.
I am not taking sides, it has impacted everyone. No one said that teams don't prepare before hand, there is also preparation and rest time for players in season. With a 35 man roster you MUST have all your players available now.
Who will make the NCAA final 8, those teams that are healthy, have not maxed out their pitching staff, I don't even think talent will be as much in the equation as it used to be.
JMO.
I am not taking sides, it has impacted everyone. No one said that teams don't prepare before hand, there is also preparation and rest time for players in season. With a 35 man roster you MUST have all your players available now.
Who will make the NCAA final 8, those teams that are healthy, have not maxed out their pitching staff, I don't even think talent will be as much in the equation as it used to be.
JMO.
TPM
Most schools never carried more than 35 even ten years ago--my sons school had 32--rosters in the Northeast have not changed much if at all
You keep agitating and I do not know why because you do not bother me but simply give me more fodder for posting
And it is fact that the Northern schools have dealt with this problem as late as last year and with the weather problems they learned how to make it work---good coaches find a way to make it work--they do not cry about it and even those that cry get it done if they are good coaches
Most schools never carried more than 35 even ten years ago--my sons school had 32--rosters in the Northeast have not changed much if at all
You keep agitating and I do not know why because you do not bother me but simply give me more fodder for posting
And it is fact that the Northern schools have dealt with this problem as late as last year and with the weather problems they learned how to make it work---good coaches find a way to make it work--they do not cry about it and even those that cry get it done if they are good coaches
Couple of rhetorical questions...
If the weather is the main issue, then why aren't the northern teams dominating in the south this spring? rz1 - 25% of the season is over and there is data. The best I can tell, the northern teams (other than a few examples) have done worse this spring. I'll listen to anyone that can provide data contrary to that assertion. It seems the compressed schedule is magnifying the advantage that the southern teams enjoy since for one thing, there is now less time for practice. Based on the data I have seen thus far, I am arguing the more the schedule becomes compressed, the worse it will get for the teams it is supposed to be helping.
Why is it that many of these southern schools have northern players on their rosters? Look at UNC for example. Many of their star pitchers are now coming from or being recruited from the northeast. Is it possible that the main reason for the difference between the regions is talent and it is no more complicated than that? Not suggesting there are no star players playing in the North. Just suggesting, on the whole, there is more in the south. If that is the case, how is the schedule going to help that? I guess the theory is we may now see more northern teams in Omaha and that will help recruiting?
The thing that bugs me is that some kids went to the south for the precise advantages that were offered in view of the inherent risks involved. IMHO, there was a price to be paid for that choice and thus there were disadvantages associated with those decisions as well. The fact there was an advantage goes to the kid willing to risk perhaps a sure thing from the local colleges that may have recruited them. I wonder if Ohio State's recruiting suddenly is going to get better based on a schedule change? I guess we'll see after more data has been collected.
If the weather is the main issue, then why aren't the northern teams dominating in the south this spring? rz1 - 25% of the season is over and there is data. The best I can tell, the northern teams (other than a few examples) have done worse this spring. I'll listen to anyone that can provide data contrary to that assertion. It seems the compressed schedule is magnifying the advantage that the southern teams enjoy since for one thing, there is now less time for practice. Based on the data I have seen thus far, I am arguing the more the schedule becomes compressed, the worse it will get for the teams it is supposed to be helping.
Why is it that many of these southern schools have northern players on their rosters? Look at UNC for example. Many of their star pitchers are now coming from or being recruited from the northeast. Is it possible that the main reason for the difference between the regions is talent and it is no more complicated than that? Not suggesting there are no star players playing in the North. Just suggesting, on the whole, there is more in the south. If that is the case, how is the schedule going to help that? I guess the theory is we may now see more northern teams in Omaha and that will help recruiting?
The thing that bugs me is that some kids went to the south for the precise advantages that were offered in view of the inherent risks involved. IMHO, there was a price to be paid for that choice and thus there were disadvantages associated with those decisions as well. The fact there was an advantage goes to the kid willing to risk perhaps a sure thing from the local colleges that may have recruited them. I wonder if Ohio State's recruiting suddenly is going to get better based on a schedule change? I guess we'll see after more data has been collected.
quote:tpm quote:
The rule was not exactly made to improve the APR, it was made to even the playing field for when practice begins. Too many coaches complianing that the warm weather schools were hitting the field too early while the colder weather schools could not.
I agree
However as far as injuries, I'd need to see numbers that back that up and after less than 15 games. This later start date seems to me as an opportunity to be in better condition resulting in less injuries. IMO
As far as rpi, in the past the good Northern schools got lost when they went back to conference play and even with a top non-conference schedule ended up at the top of the bottom of the pack. Look at the at large picks earlier in this thread and you can see that rpi is conference driven for the most part. Last year my sons team pre-season last year was
TX- Pan
Lamar
OK State
GA Tech
TN
Vandy
WA State
Went back to conference and ended up way down the rpi list. So much for a tough Non-Conference schedule. They made the NCAA as a 4 seed and beat the 1 seed LBS, and scared the snot out of the #2 seed UCLA. If they had not won their conference they would not have been given an at large look.
If the larger schools cut their northern teams their rpi will not be negatively affected but the win #'s will fall, and wins do play a part in the selection process.
Northern schools have been playing this condensed baseball/academic schedule for years and my bet is the Southern schools are feeling those time/schedule woes now more than the Northern counterpart, and they're not liking it.
quote:cd quote:
If the weather is the main issue, then why aren't the northern teams dominating in the south this spring?
I don't know if anyone would expect a 180 overnight or probably ever. I thought the rule was about keeping the gate shut so everyones weekly game schedules remain similar throughout the year and weather was the reason for the varying schedules.
CD, I don't know enough about the situation to say "this is the who, what, where, and why's" of the NCAA decision but at the same time I have this deep seeded data oriented "show me" personality.
I thought instead of debating for days I would ask a warmer weather coach how he felt about the condensed schedule.
His reply was that he didn't mind it, as long as the pitching holds up, that's the key to it all. I asked how the players were doing academically and he said great and reminded me that Clemson played a condensed schedule all of the time and the team did very well academically.
There was an article in BA on UF's early season success and mentioned how the players are having a great time, guess it doesn't bother them.
Anyone want to ask a northern coach?
Any comments from those of you that have son's playing last year and this year, any differences?
His reply was that he didn't mind it, as long as the pitching holds up, that's the key to it all. I asked how the players were doing academically and he said great and reminded me that Clemson played a condensed schedule all of the time and the team did very well academically.
There was an article in BA on UF's early season success and mentioned how the players are having a great time, guess it doesn't bother them.
Anyone want to ask a northern coach?
Any comments from those of you that have son's playing last year and this year, any differences?
quote:Northern schools have been playing this condensed baseball/academic schedule for years and my bet is the Southern schools are feeling those time/schedule woes now more than the Northern counterpart, and they're not liking it.
With tpms post I should redefine my statement and say "those Southern schools that are complaining" instead categorizing the complete region. Poor choice of words on my part.
Looking at my sons old school at IL-Chicago it looks as though the eliminated a non-conference weekend and replaced it with a well needed practice weekend on their new field turf which was playable in March with snow stacked on adjoining fields.
Maybe time to bring the Crayolas out
rz,
It may have been a poor choice to ask, because he is used to playing 4-5 games a week at Clemson. I remember when son was recruited, they told us they preferred a later start day and played through end of May regular season and into June for ACC tournie, school is out first week in may. Schools cannot play during exam week, so that makes it compressed for many as well.
It still is a disadvantage to northern schools, as they do have more travel involved. I don't care what anyone says, travel can be a bummer. So I am not really undertanding the whole concept, except that everyone takes the practice field at the same time and begins the same weekend.
But, from his statment, I will stand by my comment that teams with the most pitching depth will make it through to the final 8, regardless of how they began the season.
It may have been a poor choice to ask, because he is used to playing 4-5 games a week at Clemson. I remember when son was recruited, they told us they preferred a later start day and played through end of May regular season and into June for ACC tournie, school is out first week in may. Schools cannot play during exam week, so that makes it compressed for many as well.
It still is a disadvantage to northern schools, as they do have more travel involved. I don't care what anyone says, travel can be a bummer. So I am not really undertanding the whole concept, except that everyone takes the practice field at the same time and begins the same weekend.
But, from his statment, I will stand by my comment that teams with the most pitching depth will make it through to the final 8, regardless of how they began the season.
quote:So I am not really undertanding the whole concept, except that everyone takes the practice field at the same time and begins the same weekend.
Besides holding the Southern Stallions back a bit it lets the Northern plow horses have at least a feel that they are in the same race.
But, from his statment, I will stand by my comment that teams with the most pitching depth will make it through to the final 8, regardless of how they began the season.
No argument here, thats 8 out of the 250+ teams that started the season on the same date, with the potential to play the same number of games in fair timeframe.
I had no idea! At least since you told me as such due to my knowledge of college sports as a relates to my daughter playing softball. Does she travel a different sixty miles to a different campus than the baseball team? Does she return to a different campus late at night to take different classes early in the morning? Are her academic demands different? You're right! It's so different. Thank you for filling me in on how difficult it is to be a student-athlete and the demands of traveling.quote:Being 60 miles away for a night game may not be all that far, get into extra innings and you don't arrive back until midnight, then put away all your gear, shower, and study if you have to, up early for class.
That would be a plush schedule if you only had to travel 60 miles away. Our baseball team has to travel 6 hours away -- to and from. My advice to future players -- watch the location of where your college is located. We are in Texas and it is a huge state. Travel is super long on those buses. Cuts into class time majorly. Program my son was involved with doesn't care about the APR or the kids academics -- just winning. Sad situation. Son saw what it was doing to his academics and decided to choose his degree over baseball. He wasn't the only one to do that at our D1 school. My son is a very good student in a demanding business school. He saw how 5 games a week in the state of Texas was going to kill his time in the classroom. We are proud of his decision, but sad that he was backed in a corner and had to make this decision. It's not about student athletes any more.
The sixty mile discussion was about mid week non-conference games. The exchange started when I referenced Vanderbilt's mid week schedule. The weekends are often long bus rides or plane trips.quote:That would be a plush schedule if you only had to travel 60 miles away.
Some of our midweek games are 6 hours away. That's why I stated, before you sign at any school, ask how far away the midweek games are. When you leave the day before for a 6 hour trip, play the next day, then get back at 12 or 1 am, you are missing 2 days of classes there. Then if you have a weekend travel series, you leave after class on Thursday and miss on Friday. You have missed 3 days of classes that week. Then you start all over again the next week. A lot also depends on what you are majoring in. The whole thing is insane for the so-called student-athlete.
Many baseball players have a class schedule that is over at 12 Noon
quote:Originally posted by diamond darling:
Some of our midweek games are 6 hours away. That's why I stated, before you sign at any school, ask how far away the midweek games are. When you leave the day before for a 6 hour trip, play the next day, then get back at 12 or 1 am, you are missing 2 days of classes there. Then if you have a weekend travel series, you leave after class on Thursday and miss on Friday. You have missed 3 days of classes that week. Then you start all over again the next week. A lot also depends on what you are majoring in. The whole thing is insane for the so-called student-athlete.
Good points, I hope everyone reads this. Sometimes players and parents are so excited with the offer they forget to ask questions. This was a selling point from the coaching staff where son went. We liked the schedule. Believe it or not if he had gone further south the midweek games had more travel time. We felt the proximity and abundance of the schools in GA, SC and NC were better than the most southern D1 he was interested in. Baseball was important, but so was going to school. It's alittle bit easier at D1's to plan schedules, they have athletic advisors to do that and pay them well to do so. Plush the coach doesn't like to travel and was well organized in that area. Mine missed very few classes over 3 years.