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from the Cincinnati Enquirer

Thoughts!

Jon
hardballcoach.com

quote:

"Fairmont right fielder Brendon Cunningham scored the winning run when batter Alex Marcano walked on a 3-2 pitch. In his exuberance at forcing in the run, Marcano failed to immediately touch first base. He instead went halfway down the line and joined his teammates and coaches in celebration.

"I started halfway to first, and I put my hands up, but nobody said anything to me," said Marcano. "The run scored and once it scored I thought it was over. Plus, it was a walk, so I thought it was a dead ball."

Thompson, who is in his 20th season as Elder's coach, protested the run.

"There really is no precedent for something like this but our contention was that he did not go to the base, that he just abandoned his attempt to go to the base, and there is a rule about that," said Thompson. "(The umpires) said for that to have happened, he would have had to have gone into the dugout."

If Marcano had entered the dugout, he would have abandoned his base on balls and the run would not have counted.

"You know what? That would have been pulling a rabbit out of the hat," said Thompson. "They won the game. We were trying to prolong it. If we could have, that would have been great, but they won it between the lines, that's the bottom line, and we're not going to dwell on it. But that will be something for the national rules committee to look into. It's not in the books now, so that will change. I thought I had seen about everything."
(2 of 2)

During the controversy, Elder second baseman Selby Chidemo noticed Marcano had not touched first base and he went over and stepped on the base with the baseball in his glove. One of the umpires then ruled Marcano out. Marcano eventually left his group and touched first base in hopes of completing the play.

The three-man umpiring crew met and began a procedure of consulting their own rule books as well as making phone calls to others in authority, including their national rules interpreter.

After all of their discussions, they ruled that Marcano had never officially abandoned the play and that the walk, and the run it forced in, would stand."
Jon publisher - hardballcoach.com
Original Post

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I talked the an assignor in the know, since this happened locally.
He filled me in, similar to what the article said, minus the fact that OHSAA doesnt allow protests(so this was basically the Elder coach appealing to the umpires), and that it took 1 hr for the 3 umpires to finally, finally, rule(correctly) -- discussing among themselves, looking in the rulebook, then using a cell to call for outside help.

Mistake #1 was the BR not running immediately to 1st.
Mistake #2 was the Fairmont 1st base coach not insuring that the BR touch 1st.
Mistake #3 was the umpire ruling the BR out on appeal.
Mistake #4 was 3 playoff officials taking that long to rule.

I dont blame the Elder coach for trying, am glad that he didnt get his way, and his media comments show class.
We had a game that was tied, bases loaded, one out, bottom of the 7th. Fly ball to medium center, great throw, close play at the plate, safe, ball game.

I'm watching our runner from second, who never went back to tag, just watched the play happen. Eventually he went back and touched up at the insistance of the 3rd base coach.

My recollection is, since this is an appeal play, it wouldn't have mattered if they 'doubled him up' since the run had scored, (I think that's correct) but still, where is your head???

The other classic is the same or similar situation, but a base hit and all the other runners run off the field to celebrate without first touching the next base. My 11U club team actually got an inning ending double play on this very situation. Runners all hugging and one smart kid grabs the ball, touches third then flips to second. In that case, its top of the 7th tie game...
quote:
Originally posted by archangel:


Mistake #1 was the BR not running immediately to 1st.
Mistake #2 was the Fairmont 1st base coach not insuring that the BR touch 1st.
Mistake #3 was the umpire ruling the BR out on appeal.
Mistake #4 was 3 playoff officials taking that long to rule.

I would add another umpire mistake - not telling the B/R to go to 1st base.
quote:
Originally posted by Just Me:
why is there any emphasis at all on whether or not batter/runner reached first?

If the runner on third journeyed from third to home and nobody tagged him out isnt the game won right there?

If there was two outs and the BR didn't go to first when told, it would be the third out and no run.

Wait a minute, my brain is working while I am typing. I believe you may be correct in FED, on a game winning award, it is considered a score even if they get a third out force appeal.
I read something somewhere years ago that has always helped me in these situations. It said "every runner (including the batter) must reach a base safely for any run to count". In the case of a force, each forced runner must reach the next base. In the case of no force, a runner may advance, or return to their starting base. Either scenario in a non-force is considered reaching a base safely.

This play is more complicated by the fact that it is a base on balls with no true standard for timing out a runner. So what to do? (it's obvious....)

Too many players on the field...call the technical and shoot the free throws!!
quote:
"every runner (including the batter) must reach a base safely for any run to count".
Not necessarily true in OBR. Here's 4.09:
(b) When the winning run is scored in the last half-inning of a regulation game, or in the last half of an extra inning, as the result of a base on balls, hit batter or any other play with the bases full which forces the runner on third to advance, the umpire shall not declare the game ended until the runner forced to advance from third has touched home base and the batter-runner has touched first base.

So only the runner from third, and the batter-runner need to touch their advance base.

Fed rules do explicitly require all runners to touch their next base, and by inference, so does NCAA.

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