Creatine Use in HS

I am against HS players using creatine. It's not been widely studied enough to deem it safe.

I would talk to these players and try to get them to try something diferent. Something that is known to be safe.

I would suggest that the boys see their doctor regarding the use of any supplement--- as with anything if used incorrectly there can be problems--their doctor will know what is best for each individual

I know my son used it in college in conjuction with his training program and there were certain things he had to do--such as a certain prescribed amount of water

I spoke with our family doctor (MD), family chiropractor, and coach before allowing my hs sophmore to use creatine. My son 15.5 yrs has become stronger with little problem recovering after 3 cycles. He is no longer using creatine as my nephew hs junior 17 yrs who attends IMG gave us some information from the coaches there saying the increased water in the muscles and potential for cramps is not worth the gain. They (IMG)do recommend the use of other supplements including protein.

TR, Thanks for mentioning seeing a doctor first. I should have.

i think anyone who uses creatine or steroids or anything along that line needs to get out of the game...baseball is a sport where people test their physical ability, not the ability of some drug they take.. if they want to get bigger they can lift weights. creatine is just another way of cheating.

Creatine is not cheating by any rules in place.

However, after having spoken with both doctors and trainers, I believe the long-term risks are not well understood. They recommended fairly strongly NOT to use it. There are some indicators that it is not a good thing over the long haul.

Talk to your doctor and do some of your own research and make an informed decision.

Just don't take it........

Health Risks of Selected Performance-Enhancing Drugs
Peter A. Chyka, PharmD, DABAT, FAACT
This article reviews adverse effects of and the difficulty of attributing toxic effects to selected drugs and dietary supplements that purportedly enhance athletic performance. On surveys estimating the extent of performance-enhancing drug use, 5% of high school students indicated anabolic-adrenergic steroid use, and approximately 28% of collegiate athletes and 5.6% of middle and high school athletes admitted creatine use. Many adverse health effects from the abuse of androgenic-anabolic steroids and androstenedione (a prodrug) are exaggerations of excessive testosterone on hepatic, cardiovascular, reproductive, and behavioral functions that can produce permanent changes. With creatine use, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, elevated serum transaminase concentrations, hypertension, fluid retention, muscle cramping, and muscle strains have been reported. Ephedra stimulates adrenergic receptors, leading to tachycardia and hypertension, with central nervous system effects of anxiety, tremor, and hyperactivity. From 1997 to 1999, 10 people died and 13 suffered permanent disabilities due to ephedra. -Hydroxybutyrate and several prodrugs (-butyrolactone and 1,4-butanediol) can produce alternating agitation and coma, amnesia, hypotonia, ataxia, nystagmus, tremors, bradycardia, respiratory depression, and apnea. Although -hydroxybutyrate abuse began as a bodybuilding aid, most serious adverse effects are from acute overdoses. Adverse effects from performance-enhancing drugs do occur, but their extent and frequency are unknown.


Key Words: Androgenic-anabolic steroid toxicity • androstenedione toxicity • creatine toxicity • ephedra toxicity • -hydroxybutyrate toxicity • performance-enhancing drugs • health hazards

Talk with my son about creatine some time back. He told me that many kids at his school use it. WE both agreed to many unknowns,good old fashion hard work is what he chose. Know short cuts.

Cheating, how is that Dibble?

I personally have mixed feelings on it, but if my son came to me and wanted to use it, we would discuss it with his coaches, his doctor and his mother.

If all agreed, I wouldn't stop him.

Here is an article that I found very interesting on creatine.



The Use of Creatine

Thanks for the link. This collaborates much of the information that I found regarding creatine when my 15 yr old questioned me regarding it’s use. In summary I found: the purity of the product can vary greatly based on the source, there may be little benefit unless your body is deficient in creatine production, it can be rather difficult and expensive to get an effective dose due to the waste, there can be side effects, and the long term effects are not known. After a discussion of this reasearch and a talk with his coach, a former minor leaguer who admits to using it – and who recommended not to use it, he decided against it.

Please read the following advisory from Blue Cross/Blue Shield:

The Blue Cross and Blue Shield Association's Healthy Competiton Foundation
Position on Creatine Supplementation



Creatine Monohydrate is a popular dietary supplement surrounded by controversy. Athletes at all levels of competition and in a broad cross-section of sports are using creatine with little understanding of potential side effects. Increasingly, however, professional sports teams are restricting players' use of this supplement. Used by athletes wishing to enhance their performance, creatine has been linked by anecdotal evidence to a variety of negative effects ranging from cramping to kidney problems.

Many athletes, coaches and trainers believe that creatine supplements are safe to use because creatine is a substance that the body produces naturally. Users assume that creatine use is approved by the government because the supplements are available over-the-counter at health food stores and on the Internet. Unfortunately, as with all substances classified as dietary supplements, this is not the case. Under the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) does not regulate dietary supplements, which include creatine.

The long-term health effects caused by the use of creatine have not been scientifically examined, but a growing number of athletes and doctors have noticed negative health effects. Anecdotal, single-case reports and preliminary evidence suggest that creatine may be linked to cramping, diarrhea, nausea, dizziness, dehydration, incontinence, muscle strain, high blood pressure and abnormal liver and kidney function. There is no conclusive, scientific evidence that creatine use predictably causes any of these problems. Anecdotal evidence suggests that creatine should not be taken immediately prior to exercise and should never be used by children or pregnant or lactating women.

Some athletes have experienced such adverse effects that trainers and coaches of some professional sports teams are discouraging or restricting its use. A recent study conducted by USA Today surveyed 115 professional sports teams and discovered that one in three teams disapprove of creatine's use. Additionally, the University of Tennessee has prohibited the use of creatine after fourteen of its football players experienced cramps during a game.

Experts recommend that athletes interested in using creatine should do so with caution and under medical supervision. Dr. Gary Wadler, Associate Professor of Clinical Medicine at New York University and a widely recognized expert on performance-enhancing drugs, states, "Our concern is that many of the newer substances have not yet been tested for their long-term physiological and potentially adverse effects. As a physician and a father, I would recommend that adults and children consult with their physician before ever taking performance-enhancing supplements."

Dr. Allan Korn, Chief Medical Officer of the Healthy Competition Program, reminds us that the term "performance enhancing" may not even apply to creatine. According to Dr. Ronald Terjung of the American College of Sports Medicine, "There is no evidence that creatine supplementation increases aerobic power of muscle."

The long-term effects of creatine use have not been fully examined, and to ignore the potential concerns that surround this supplement could place athletes on the path to serious health problems. Creatine is an unregulated substance that is marketed to and used in large doses by teenagers without proper medical supervision. The Healthy Competition Program urges abstinence from creatine use and reminds athletes, parents and coaches that skill, dedication and hard work are the most important qualities of true athletic competition.

CV

A few things here--- creatine is not a drug and should not be equated with steroids--it is totally different

Also any "drug" or "supplement" you take has side effects, many of which are unknown--VIOXX, CELEBREX and ALEVE are the latest to come under scrutiny--I have taken them all under doctors direction and monitoring-- does that male me wrong or foolish--I do not think so

I was also on two highly popular drugs which caused me to have a violent allergic action, after months of use, which nearly killed me-- 70 over zero blood pressure and no pulse --- happened twice before my doc, a allergic specialist at Mass General Hospital found in his research, including calls to the manufacturer, same manufacturer made both drugs but each was sold by a different lab, which discovered that this reaction had occurred in VERY RARE INSTANCES-- I was one of those rare instances--Lucky me !!!!

BOTTOM LINE-- anything we put into our body can have adverse side effects along with positive-- with doctors advice we can make what we hope is the right decision --are the risks worth the positive effects.

As I said earlier my son used creatine but he was IN COLLEGE AND UNDER THE DIRECTION OF THE TRAINER AND HIS SPORT DOCTORS APPROVAL. It was an educated decision regarding a legal supplement.

By the way many of the so called "power drinks" contain substances which can cause you to fail a drug test

With progress comes dilemma!!!!

quote:

---

Users assume that creatine use is approved by the government because the supplements are available over-the-counter at health food stores

---

One point all should understand is that the "government" - which in this case refers to the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) - does not "approve" or "disapprove" of a drug. What the FDA does approve is the marketing label that appears on the drug package. While this sounds like semantics, it is a key and necessary point to understand. The FDA does not approve a use, or indication, it approves the language contained in the label, based on data obtained from clinical trials. This means that the purity and formulation of a drug approved for marketing are established and consistent, with consistent manufacturing processes and protocols. No such information is available for any supplement, to my knowledge at least. Further, once a drug receives FDA marketing approval, it is legal for physicians to prescribe that drug for any use, based on information contained in the biomedical literature. This is referred to as "off-label" use, and pertains to a large proportion of drug use. The latter is germane to anabolic steroids, which are approved for marketing with specific labeling. However, no physician in his right mind, or with a sense of ethics, will prescribe anabolic steroids, growth hormone, or any other agent in order to help an athlete get bigger and stronger. It's cheating, anyway.

We have a trainer on site at our high school. I have told him in no uncertain terms that my kids will NOT TAKE CREATINE or any other suppliment. Call me ignorant, call me what you want but also later in my player's lives, they won't have that potential time bomb ticking with my name alongside the word Creatine.

Parents can make all kinds of excuses for creatine use, but they are looking for short cuts and they need to look themselves in the mirror because they are telling their kids hey it is OK to cheat. Great parenting. Your kid has to do drugs to compete with people that have TALENT and work hard to get where they are

DRIVEL

Creatine is not a drug--- learn what you are talking about

Using creatine is not cheating. Using creatine is not smart. Personally, I'd rather supplement my creatine intake by eating a good steak.

I'm not an expert, but everything I've read so far about Creatine is that there aren't any truly conclusive studies one way or the other in terms of specific risks ... or clear cut benefits. It's supposed to function by allowing muscle tissue to work harder longer, thus allowing the athelete to have longer and more effective training/lifting sessions, i.e., it's an indirect effect, not a direct effect like steriods. It's the training building the muscle tissue, not the Creatine.

It seems to me that the best thing you can tell a teenager looking to put on muscle mass is to first get a well structured and planned weight lifting and training regime specificly designed for their development goals, i.e., pitchers versus position players, body type, etc. Then support that training with a good nutrition program with the right types of foods, pure protein suppliments, and frequency of eating (right # calories at the right times) to support the body's ability to build muscle mass.

You see too many kids that lift with no real goal in mind other than out-lifting his teammates on the bench press and looking good in a tank top, and that have no thought on how to support the growth of additional body mass with appropriate nutrition.

Two things that had a huge positive impact on my son's workouts in the weight room: he really started to focus on his nutrition; and, he started a core strength, balance, yoga training class twice/week on his off-days between weight lifting.

TR if Creatine is such great thing why is it illegal in the olympics. You have no idea what it is gonna do to the health of your own kid.


craetine side efects
http://www.personalhealthzone.com/herbal_medicine/side_effects/creatine_side_effects.html

I try to use a common sense approach to any drug. I don't want myself or my kids to take anything unless absolutely needed. We ALWAYS ask the doctor if their is another alternative. Common sense will tell you that you need to avoid chemicals of all kinds unless absolutely needed. Not enough people ask if there is an alternative treatment method.

DIBBLE

I never said it was a great thing--also where the Olympics are concerned you can be taking prescription drugs for allergies, asthma etc and not pass their tests---with the medication taken everyday by non athletes they could probabaly not pass the test---

If you think creatine is so bad,then don't eat a half pound hambuger. There is approximately 2 grams of creatine in your burger.Creatine is a protein produced by every animal.As with most anything if abused it can be harmful but it is a natural substance produced by the human body.Taking to much Tylenol can be harmful or even cause death if abused. Do your homework and educate yourself.Your health and wellness is the most important thing you have. Don't leave it entirely to someone else.

Nothing replaces hard word and dedication. You can take all the creatine you want, but if you don't have the work ethic, you are waisting your money. Is the little edge you get from creatine worth the unknown health problems down the road?

I'm wating for the next post.... Steroid Use in HS

CADad & TRhit had it just about right. Creatine is used as a food supplement. However, your body cannot assimilate or forced to accept more amnino acids or creatine than what it normally can. Therefore, unless you are on a protein restricted diet, creatine does absolutely nothing except line the pockets of supplement manufacturers. If you need proof of what I just stated, just ask anyone who takes creatine and ask them about the wonderful diarrhea side effect (that is your body rejecting extra creatine).

Trust me. Don't waste your money. Just take a good vitamin & mineral supplement like Centrum or One-A-Day.

Now steriods on the otherhand, that works like a champ! -just a little humor...., sorry.

Any type of enhancement drug can be dangerous. There is a local parent filing charges against a basketball coach for giving it to her son before a game. He was later rushed to the hospital claiming of severe chest pains. Wheter or not the player was unaware of taking it, is another issue. the bottom line, any type of drug and/or enhancement is unsafe. But then again all drugs and enhancements all carry warning labels.

I think the key phrase in this discussion is "long term effects" - doctors and nutritionists simply don't know what they are. While there may be few "long term" health effects, they could just as well be many - and then it's too late.
Wouldn't it be better in the long run to choose a natural way (diet, exercise, working out muscle groups) which wouldn't come back to haunt you later in life? Of course, this requires hours of hard work and dedication, no short cuts here -

tasmit-Creatine is probably the most widley studied of all sports supllements.People that refer to creatine as a "drug" have no clue what they are talking about and should not be posting on this subject.We should all remeber that creatine is in almost ever kind of meat

My son and I recently visited a couple schools in Connecticut.

One of the questions I asked the coach was his policy on Creatine.

His response was " it will be illegal very soon".

He felt there was not enough history with Creatine to know if it is safe or not. Naturally occurring Creatine in not necessarily the same as the artificial Creatine and not necessarily absorbed (not sure if that is the right term)by the body in the same manner. Then one of his coaches, who is into body building, spoke up and indicated he tried it but gave it up because of the side effects.

I believe that you can find just as many reasons to take Creatine as you can NOT too. I believe until we find out for sure about what Creatine does or does not do we are going to continue to have passionate discussions on both sides of the fence.

It is so easy when your son is trying to "make it", at any level to help him get every advantage you can, short of steroids. It could be Creatine, NO2 or any other supplement that comes along to help enhance or speed-up the process.

My son came home in September weighing in at 172 pounds and at 6' 3" that is one skinny kid. We wanted to do something, but just could not agree on what would be best. Finally after much debate, Dad/coach/mentor won out.

1) Bought a Bowflex and worked out 6 days a week and he nearly killed me.
2) Took Whey protein 2200, Royal-Jelly, and Chia-Seeds. The first two can be purchased at GNC and Chia Seeds can be purchased at Chia Seeds
3) Ate 5 or 6 meals a day. (I am broke now)

I put him on a plane yesterday headed for Florida......He weighs 192 pounds. He gained 20 pounds from November to March.

Not sure if what we did was right, but it worked for him.

Orioles42

Chia-seeds???

I sure do hope your son doesn't start SPROUTING green things on his new muscles!!!

PAmom,

That cracks me up, I did not think about that. If he starts looking like a Chia pet, I am getting my money back.

By the way....Do you know where DuBois is? I was born and raised there, and a lot of my family are still there!

Orioles42

travis may - knowledge has never been a prerequisite to posting on this site. Why should they start now.

Call me old-fashioned but I tend to think if you can't get there without performance enhancers then perhaps it just wasn't meant to be.

It seems to me that most people assume a definition of the subject matter, and then that definition compels (and to them, justifies) their opinion. Such as, defining creatine as a "drug" - then it's bad. Defining it as a "performance enhancer" - then it's cheating. Saying that not enough is known about it's long term efects" - then its a risk.
But creatine is not a "drug" - at least as I understand that term. And its a "performance enhancer" in the same sense that steak and Gatorade are - by helping a person exercise more and build muscles through that exercise. "Long term effects" - do we know the "long term effects" of Gatorade? Of eating Chia seeds? (That's a new one on me!) Of Pop Rocks? Twinkies? Big Macs? Pepto Bismol? Ibuprofen? No. We just don't have any particular reason to suspect that there's a particular danger there. We may be wrong, but you gotta eat something.
I guess I'm cynical because a lot of people casually equate Creatine with steroids - which is just plain goofy.

I fully agree with you P-Dog

In reality I cannot find any medical studies defining the definte side effects of Steroids and there are different types of steroids as well-- you and I have used steroids as medication-- I know that I have--many times

Great new realm for the medical profession and until players step up and acknowledge that they use "roids" and allow themselves to be studied there will be no data on short and/or long term effects

Let me say this about meds you put in your body-- I am on a drug for an unknown allergy--I take it in conjunction with two other meds--- the combo has worked for over 5 years now-- now attacks--BUT lo and behold the major drug of the three is also used for depression and can have severe side effects-- so far so good but , like I say, who knows what we are putting in our body and what damage we are doing to ourselves

I see kids pop ibuprofens before , during and after games--- I know that ain't good and will have side effects if continued--- no kids on our team uses anything without the parents telling me what it is and why !!!! And even then I will fight it

One never knows does one !!!!!!!!!!

Wow...a lot of really awkward positions on creatine here, but I'll throw in mine.

First off, it does work. Not for everyone (some people are non-responsive), but for me my stamina went up significantly. Granted I worked and still do work really hard, but I definitely saw bigger increases than I had been prior to taking creatine. And I didn't suffer any of the side-effects I heard so much about (yes I asked my doctor) other than water retention, but i drink massive amounts of water daily anyways.

This isn't to say that just taking creatine alone will improve strength, you really need to work to see results. However, it's a personal decision. I decided I wanted to reach my maximum potential before taking it again (which I dont think will be before my baseball career ends). Anyways, that's my opinion.

BTW, Dibble, how do you go about testing for creatine for the Olympics? Do they forbid the eating of steak?