CSF vs ASU Shame on you umpire

I watched the game.

It really didn't matter.

When the kid threw the ball away on the pickoff attempt and the tying run scored and the runner moved to 3rd with no outs, do you really think that CSF wasn't going to score?

Sounds like you would like "selective" rules enforcement. If there is a rule, enforce it. If you don't want to enforce the rules, then let the kids call their own balls and strikes and everything else that affects the game.

Good call, Mr. Umpire. Happy to see that you aren't afraid to make the call (s).

I also watched the game. BT, looks like we will have to agree to disagree.

Granted CSF more than likely would have won the game without the balk call although I've seen plenty of times when bases juiced, no outs and it stayed that way. Only problem is, we will never know. IMO, it was a terrible call and one that should not have been made even if it was in the first inning. Replay's showed he came set, apparently just not long enough for the 3rd base ump to see . Even the announcers couldn't figure out where the balk was! Thought it might have been called on the catcher, wondered if he went to his mouth while on the mound AFTER the pitch was thrown, etc...

I agree rules are rules, but where it's not obvious, let them play.

B.T. I could have cared less who won that game last night,Go Baylor,Go Texas,Go Rice!!!!

I too have to disagree,How many times have you seen a team have the bases loaded and NO out"s and Not score??I have on several occasions!!!

Selective Rule's??? What are you talking about??
Do you realize this is the Super Regionals? And to have a Ump. to determine the outcome,Come On,Get with the program sir. This Ump acted like he had supper waiting on him.So Sad for Both teams,to have such a umpire To settle the game himself on a Bad Call,Bet you that Ump. will not be back in the College Ranks next year.WHAT,it Really didn't matter,sounds to me you never witnessed a team having the base's loaded with no outs and not scoring.

BAD,BAD Call Mr.No Umpire,This is not High School Ball,You let the players settle it on the field,Not on a very Bad Call,Sorry Sir But you are wrong on this one.as wrong as that "Bad Call

Selective Rules? LOL Bad Call Mr.Umpire.I had three other people at my house watching the game and we "all" Could Not Believe what this Umpire did to the integerity to the game,Do you think on a Routine Double play ball 2nd base is touched with a runner sliding in,About half the time MAYBE!!!

That call is one the ump. will have to live with the rest of his life,Did you not hear the announcers? B.T. You had to be pulling for C.S.F.with you're way of thinking.GEEEEEEZZZZZ
It's disappointing for our kids," Arizona State head coach Pat Murphy said. "They deserve to win or lose it on the field, not to have it happen like that."

Did I hear right that ASU has not won at CSF in 4yrs????? I have been gone from there way too long to know if that was true.....but,if that is true, then I guess the umpires were afraid the streak would be broken.

What a shame...........I will be wearing my ASU shirt all day today in support of my Devils.

GO ASU!!!!

What transpired last night, I have seen several times this year.
I call it Blue Power, and you just have to move on!

quote:

Originally posted by BeenthereIL:
I watched the game.

It really didn't matter.

When the kid threw the ball away on the pickoff attempt and the tying run scored and the runner moved to 3rd with no outs, do you really think that CSF wasn't going to score?

Sounds like you would like "selective" rules enforcement. If there is a rule, enforce it. If you don't want to enforce the rules, then let the kids call their own balls and strikes and everything else that affects the game.

Good call, Mr. Umpire. Happy to see that you aren't afraid to make the call (s).

My respect for you lessens.

First, I can agree with call all the rules.

Second, follow the 4 pitch walk video. He did the same thing on every pitch. His stop is short, as is many pitchers. It was the same the previous pitches. And, I believe there was a stop on all of them.

So, no selective rule enforcement involved.

Just a stupid umpire who wanted to be the show.

This guy should never umpire at the college level again.

Compare it to Denkinger's call in the 85 World Series. Bang bang play, very easy to make a mistake.

This has an element of premeditation to it. Nothing bang bang. He has to think and decide. How can you make that decision at that time in the game? Something is wrong with this guy to make that call.

Bases should be loaded with no one out. A very tough situation. But, I want the other team to beat me, not the umpire.

If I were the coach, I wouldn't have just got kicked out of that game (although it was over) I would've gotten kicked out of the park, the city, the state, the country and the world.

At some point, the consequences are worth the act. This is one of those times.

That my folks is unadulterated BS.

I hope the media gives this guy the ultimate scrutiny. Over and over and over and over and over and.........

Beenthere

I'm surprised, being the old school type you are.

If the call is clear, that's one thing. But it was borderline at best. Rule No. 1 of umpiring: Let the players decide the outcome, unless forced otherwise.

I agree it wasn't the difference in the game; the outcome was inevitable. But it was a horrible call. It was the difference between a professional umpire and a wannabe.

If the umpire is so ready to inject himself into the game, then I hope the stories on the game named him, where he is from and what league he usually works. Make him face the music.

Ladies and Gents

we can ***** all we want about the umpires but they are a fact of life-- they won't go away and more the you bang on their heads the more they make calls against you-- especially if you are not a home town team

Wow...this is like the old days.

Everyone piling on old jp.

Gents...You are letting your emotion cloud what happened. The balk call was on the catcher and not on the pitcher.

Good call, Mr. Umpire.

If you don't like the rules, change them, otherwise "shut up".

Had a son that graduated from ASU. Doesn't cloud my sentiment that the umpire was correct.

I don't have a dog in the fight, so it doesn't bother me either way who won, but what's right is right and in this case the ump was wrong.

Good ole jp, get the facts straight.

According to the umpiring crew:

quote:

"It was a violation of rule 9-3j (which says) the pitcher has to come to a complete and discernable stop," crew chief and second base umpire Paul Guillie said following the game. "The call was made on the 3-0 count. The third base umpire made the call."

They showed the replay a dozen times of the catcher and he did nothing wrong. But, apparently in your expert opinion, if you believed the call was on the catcher, it was a good call?? In your defense it was a lot later in your neck of the woods. Maybe you were just tired.

quote:

Originally posted by BeenthereIL:
Wow...this is like the old days.

Everyone piling on old jp.

Gents...You are letting your emotion cloud what happened. The balk call was on the catcher and not on the pitcher.

Good call, Mr. Umpire.

If you don't like the rules, change them, otherwise "shut up".

Had a son that graduated from ASU. Doesn't cloud my sentiment that the umpire was correct.

Looks like you turned off your TV a little too early.

They interviewed Az States coach and he said the ump ruled "no discernable stop" by the pitcher.

Now what do you have to say for your uninformed self? Other than "shut up, self"?

Gees...I turned off the tv after they replayed the catcher stepping out of the box and the guy said it was a catcher's interference call.

God, can you all forgive me. I'm am so sorry.

Who gives a sh..?

No one.

Getting to be like the old AOL chat rooms more and more.

Well I think who gives a sh.... is the players on ASU, their coaches their fans and any true baseball fan.

This was one of the worst calls I've ever seen at any level of baseball. It was pointless, needless and singularly decided the end of the game as NO ONE can predict what might have ultimatley happened. Teams have escaped from bases loaded situations once or twice in the history of the game I believe.

The most horrendous part about it is that the pitcher did stop. His motion was the same from pitch to pitch. this is more about an umpire controlling and dictating the outcome of a game then calling it and elevating form over substance for his ego. The plate umpire or whoever was the crew chief was equally remiss for not reversing this ridiculous call. Wasn't the plate umpire watching. Apparently not.

I'm all for enforcing rules, but there is a reason and intent for the balk rule which is applicable to its enforcement (besides the fact that the kid did stop) i.e. so as to not deceive a runner. It had no application in this situation.

quote:

...
Getting to be like the old AOL chat rooms more and more.

Oh, so you want to say whatever you want and be wrong and expect everyone to believe it????

Stay current and you'll avoid these situations.

quote:

...The plate umpire or whoever was the crew chief was equally remiss for not reversing this ridiculous call. Wasn't the plate umpire watching. Apparently not.

...

This is stictly a hunch but if I read the plate umpires body language correctly, he was totally surprised. Completely taken off guard.

Another example of umpires standing up for umpires no matter how wrong they are. Another example of no accountability. If one says he saw something, he saw it, even if he didn't. And, even if the others know he didn't.

I've got a reward for the first umpire to take a stand against another umpire. I'm not talking about when they get together in their huddle and cordially work out the call (which is what they should do). I'm talking about the first time an umpire changes another umpires call to his disagreement.

No excuses for this kind of umpiring.

I see many, many games at the D1, D2, JC and high school level each year, and for the most part, the umpires are very poor. I think that there is just not enough teaching and grooming of umpires. I would venture to say that the calling of balls and strikes at the D1 level is brutal. The calls at first are pretty good and the egos are brutal also.Calling a balk to end that game is worse than brutal. The guy should be fired.

The rule book specifically states that no umpire has a right to over rule another.....you can offer additional information or a rule interpretation but it is the umpire who made the call whether or not to ask for it or take any help given....period.....


All umpires on a crew have equal jurisdiction in calling balks....and it is up to what that umpire "saw"......

These umpires are hand selected for NCAA championship tournament play and the assignments are dearly sought after... you can bet your bottom dollar that this call will come back to haunt this umpire........

I am for calling a game to the full extent of the rules....and I try and do so....but with balks I fall back on the training I got 20+ years ago from the SAL league umpire who trained me.... He said:

You call 100% of the balks everyone sees
You call most of the balks that baseball people see (players, coaches, umpires)
you call none of the balks that only you see....

quote:

Originally posted by piaa_ump:
The rule book specifically states that no umpire has a right to over rule another.....you can offer additional information or a rule interpretation but it is the umpire who made the call whether or not to ask for it or take any help given....period....

Well, if I'm the crew chief, we huddle, and the 'additional information' that is given the that 3B umpire, by me, is as follows....

"There is no f****** way I'm going to let what just happened happen. You are going to tell everyone that after talking it over with me(us) that information came to light that indicates no balk was committed. DO YOU UNDERSTAND."

And his response better be........"YES SIR".

OR

This umpire is going to report that umpire and I'll make it as hard as I can for him to work another game

OR

This umpire and that umpire are going to have a few words right then and there.

Finally, I really like what that SAL umpire taught you.

I didn't see the play but I'm concerned with the mindset that requires an ump to look the other way when they see an infraction of the rules simply because they are intimidated by other circumstances. It's very simple - ENFORCE THE RULES. Also, as mentioned earlier that the ump determined the game due to the call. NO HE DIDN'T. THE PLAYER DID WHEN HE COMMITTED AN INFRACTION. Of course, I could change my opinion should we all agree that when it comes to nut cracking time, we all count on the umps not having the intestinal fortitude to DO THE RIGHT THING and so, we all cheat. WAIT, NO, I WON'T CHANGE MY MIND ON THAT.

I think that the sentiment in this thread is dangerous when we decide when and when not to enforce the rules, laws etc. JMHO!

quote:

Originally posted by CoachB25:
I didn't see the play...

We don't get along much of the time, but, please, you gotta see this play before you comment.

I guarantee you and I will be in the same corner after you see it.

It is impossible to make a call worse than this one.

BTW, good season.

Thanks I'm really proud of my kids.

This ruling must have been really terrible.

As a coach, all I want is someone that will ump the game, know the rules, enforce the rules, and not be the show. I've run into some incrediable stuff this year. Kids ejected and then allowed back into the game. A balk that was so obvious and an ump that said that he wasn't going to call in in "this type of weather." IT WAS A BALK AND WE HAD THE WINNING RUN ON 3RD. WE LOST IN 8 INNINGS. (Pitcher starts motion - forgot runner on 3rd, stops motion and then steps as if to go off of stretch.) Well, you see my point.

Again, I didn't see it. However, my interest is peaked and I will do my best to get to see it.

Gotta agree completely... you have to have seen this. I was watching the game live and then all the post game comments, reviews, interviews, etc.

Apparently the third base umpire was the only person in the world that saw this "balk" and it was a bs, chicken sh** call.

Both teams, the other umpires, the announcers, commentators etc. etc. had NO idea what was going on. At first the speculation was that the pitcher had gone to his mouth. Then the speculation was that the catcher had been "out of the box" etc. etc. The last thing anyone seemed to think of was that there was a balk. The replays show the kid stopping, as he had on the 3 previous pitches.

Does it matter if this was a little league game or a game 2 victories away from OMAHA. I guess it does, because this is a rule and a call and a situtation that calls for judgment....its a judgment call. This umpire had none, zero... it's a disgrace

One thing I gotta add though that I haven't seen commented on is that the ASU coach handled this amazingly well with complete class, as did his team. they showed nothing but sportsmanship and represented themselves, their school and the game in an absolutely first rate fashion.

At the bottomline I guess it shows just another life lesson and the "ups and downs" and how you handle it all. To this end, win or lose, congrats to ASU.

Even as a die-hard CSF fan, I did not like the call. Of course I still feel CSF would have won but that call was a terrible way to end Game 1 of any Supper Regional.

I was up late watching the game while I was on here reading some posts. When the call was made it made me sick to my stomach. No way that call should have been made. Would they have scored, probaly. Would they have scored for sure, no. Leave the outcome in the players hands not the umpires hands. I really was pulling for CSF but who cares.

I'm also not an AZ State fan.

99% chance Az State loses the game with the circumstances as they were.

But please, let me sweat the 1% and hope for a miracle.

LET THE PLAYERS DECIDE THE GAMES.

Same umpire made a similar call against CSF today for the 6th run. Didn't really impact the game, but no one (including announcers) could figure out what the balk was again.

The guy is making it tough for umpires all over the US today.

The funny thing about the call tonight was the announcers tried to say that he had started home then stepped off. On the replay you could see that he just stepped off the rubber. One thing for sure is the coach for CSF was not going to argue that call , not after the gift he got last night how could he.

If last night wasn't enough to get this guy fired surely tonight will do the trick.

Do both teams deserve to have to sweat what he might do tomorrow????

How can one guy, on two consecutive nights, see something no one else in the world can see.

It's called hallucination.

The Baylor Bears had chances to run away with the game early and to rally late. Baylor loaded the bases with"NO" outs in the top of the third, but Clemson starter Stephen Faris forced consecutive pop outs and a strikeout to get out of the jam.Also Baylor loaded the base's in the top of the 8th with "NO" Out's,Guess what Baylor,Shutout Nada,No runs,So again like you said it really didnt' matter,Don't quote me but i think Baylor had at least 12 L.O.B.' DON'T EVER ASSUME ANYTHING Bad Call.............Notice No Outs with bases loaded.............He blew it ...B.T. I forgive you!

A tied series is divine justice now they will have to see who can make it out of game 3 with the win and hopefully w/o any more questionable balk calls (isn't a balk an oxymoron , you can tell I am a mom of a pitcher).

GO SUN DEVILS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not sure how it's divine justice when it could've been 2-0 Az State.

Not likely, but could've been, but for one umpire who thinks everyone came to see him.

I'll bet any one of you that the pitcher who was called for the balk will ALWAYS come to a discernable stop when intentionally walking batters in the future.

Terrible call. What happened to the "intent to deceive the runner" part? Bad enough, but on an intentional walk? Come on! Not only that but the umpire deprived a CSF player of driving in the winning run which probably would have happened.

If everyboy is bitching then change the rule. No balks can be called on an intentional walk. Suppose the pitcher accidently dropped the ball when in contact with the rubber. Whats the call? Does the umpire ignore the rule?

Now we get opinions of others opinions from someone who obviously didn't see the play.

Just reacting to the emotion of the thread.

And, suffering from "the umps are always right" syndrome.

Teacherman.....to whom are you referring?

Worst call I've ever seen, the kid did come set, if you look at the replays he came set.

No reason for that umpire to make such a dumb and useless call, must have wanted to get on that TV comercial that shows people doing dumb & stupid things.

CV

Folks, please re-read what PIAAump wrote, particularly the last three lines. If you don't find them enlightening, you're not a real baseball person.

This umpire is an embarrassment to the NCAA and should be removed from the list for future work.

For all you "purists" (a rule is a rule-and should be enforced regardless of the situation) I am in your corner but this is a "judgement" call ON a rule and clearly could have been interpreted
differently from what it was actually ruled by the ego-centered third base ump.

There are two rules that most pitchers break every time they wind up and are never-NEVER-enforced. The NCAA rules state in SPECIFIC words that a pitcher's pivot foot cannot leave the ground during the windup. Most pitchers raise the pivot foot slightly and clearly off the ground
during the windup. Why is this not enforced? Probably because there is no advantaged gained by
doing this and most umpires use a little "common sense" when applying the rule-that is if they even know it exists.

Secondly, a pitcher is allowed to step backward or sideways with the non pivot foot and one step
forward during the windup. There are a number of pitchers-college and professional-that actually
step "forward" with their first step and then forward again-clearly in violation of the rules and never enforced. Common sense says this rule should not be enforced.

This ASU-CSF umpire clearly needs a lesson in this area.