Curveball differential

I'm not a scout but that is a huge drop with the curve.  That much difference usually means when the P throws the curve, he has slower arm action and/or the pitch has a bigger hump, both of which make it easier for hitters to pick up as you go up levels.  It can still be VERY effective but not generally good for what they look for as you progress.

They want enough difference to keep hitters off balance but not so much that it is easy to recognize - usually equates to about 12-16 mph difference.

The average speed of a curveball in the majors is 77 mph.  FB is 91.

Was recently at a Charleston Riverdogs game (Class A)

One pitcher threw up to 97

and

his curve was around 81 (per scoreboard)

Had batters really off-balance

I just watched Barry Zito pitch for the Nashville Sounds last week Fastball was sitting 81-82 (never exceeded 82) and his curve was 69-71. He dominated.

I was just looking to see what the differential should be.  Just got my 2018's stats from the PBR event he did yesterday.  FB was 80-82 and CU was 63-66.  "I" don't notice a difference in his arm speed when he throws but it would have to be pretty drastic I think for me to notice.  So it will be interesting to see what the evaluation says.

2015 Son (Fr.) @ ACC school sits 90-93 and the breaking ball, which is sometimes a slider sits 78-82.

Originally Posted by Ted22:

A pretty decent D1 College head coach recently told a player I know that his fastball-curveball differential should be 15mph. Player throws 84-86 and his curveball is 64-66. Coach said he would like to see the curveball at 70+. Is this a common preference among scouts?

You must’ve meant 94-96 ‘cause everyone knows all DI pitchers throw 90+.

This sound a lot like the conversation about FB/CU differentials, and from what we know so far, there isn’t enough information to make a judgment about what’s “common” and what’s not. Just like there are many different ways to throw a CU, there are many different ways to throw a curve, so trying to make a one size fits all statement is pretty much impossible.

In order to really understand the context of what that coach said, you’d have to have heard the entire conversation.

Have not done the research but very much passes the smell test for sure.  Some good data shared already above, and most of the D1 bound Ps I see on my son's summer/fall team average high 80s FBs and touch 90 and have CBs in the 72-74 range. A look at some PG profiles of highly ranked or rated (9s, 10s) Ps would be a good check here as well.

Thanks for all the input guys. Some interesting points. His curve ball is very difficult for hitters to pick up and in fact he has never had a hard hit off of it in the time he has been in high school. Rising senior this year. The pitch has little hump and his catcher has stated that he has trouble picking it up even when he knows it is coming. Arm speed on the curve has consistently been rated as "good" at camps. He actually had used it as part of 4 ks just before he and the coach spoke.

Stats, I was there for the conversation.

I don't doubt the correctness of the coach's advice. I guess I was just surprised I hadn't picked that up before.

His plan is to maintain the slow 12-6 curve and add a faster more 1-7 break pitch. I see a lot of 18-20 mph differential among some major league pitchers but they also usually have a hard slider too.

I recently spoke with a D1 commit that said his coach wanted his curve at a solid 77-78mph. His fastball runs about 88 tops.

Thanks,

Ted

I think what most coaches do indeed look for is something around 13-15mph difference between the curve and fastball. The reasoning is that, at the high school level and below, a slower curve will work a high percentage of the time quite well, but that as you reach levels where the hitters are more advanced, this increased differential goes beyond an advantage and starts to reach a point where better hitters have extra time to pick up the pitch. This applies, I think, to your primary breaking pitch. Many pitchers have a slower curve they can throw in to get hitters away from timing their primary curve ball. Think of this 20+ mph differential curve as a changeup off of the curve.

Roothog66,

I agree with that. I think the slower curve is frequently used as a backdoor pitch to an opposite handed batter and the faster curve or hard slider can be used both inside and outside on the same handed batter. There are other ways to pitch both of course. Other disadvantages of the slower, bigger break are difficulties in getting strike calls, and it seems harder to "bury".

This particular guy can get to a 73-74 mph 1-7 curve pretty quickly. He also has tremendous arm side run on his four seam so he recently developed a slightly cut fastball to keep it from bleeding across the plate when he goes outside to righties. He should be able to expand that to a hard slider in the next few months

I don't know why this wasn't a bigger part of my equation earlier. I guess his success against his current competition had me asleep.

Thanks for the input guys.

Throw the curve as hard as you can and still control it.....nothing more, nothing less.  If that means 80 mph, great. If that means 70 mph, great.  The higher up you go the less effective the "slow" curve becomes.  

Many college coaches and pro scouts like to see CBs 75mph or harder.