Cutting Seniors

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a young coach

...needs some help from the AD.

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In our district (four large High Schools) it has been an unwritten rule that seniors are not cut. If a player has contributed 3 years to the program, he is automatically on varsity his senior year. No guaranteed playing time, but rostered his last season of HS.

unwritten rule? according to who? No guaranteed playing time? why would a coach guarantee playing time?

A lot of this senior thing could be avoided to a certain extent if what needs to be done is done perhaps in junior year or even earlier. as a coach I always looked one possibly 2 years ahead when looking at talent. Sort of projectability. I have a junior and a soph. years down the road? the soph is better you cut the junior. You dont have to deal with the senior thing. I know I may sound harsh and believe me I hated cutting kids. I did a lot of handwringing before I made decisions.
when the season started and tryouts began every returning player knew that no spot was safe. Senior or no senior.

Unwritten rule = precedent or recent history (we've been here 5 years) in our district. No senior cuts while we've been around at any HS. Its what the kids have witnessed and come to expect for their senior year.
No guaranteed playing time .... Some seniors know they are role players their senior year and might not see field time, ie bullpen catcher, maybe pinch runner. Coach tells them up front. They have earned the right to wear the uniform by being a part of the program for four years.

I completely agree that cuts should have happened in earlier years. This coach has every right to run his team as he sees fit. I just think he crapped on these 3 seniors. The player we know is solid and he didn't deserve this. Please remember that only 7 seniors tried out! We're Kansas baseball with a 20 game season. The 12 soph players he's "developing" are not star prospects whose performance knocked off an older player. Some don't even play summer baseball and are wrestlers and football players.
The integrity and character of the coach need to be held to the same standards as the integrity and character we expect from our kids. He should have communicated up front that the guidelines had changed this year. A little power can be dangerous in some coaches hands. He's lost touch with the fact that he's working with kids.

Honestly, I'm surprised that the JV coach or an assistant didn't step up and go to bat for these 3 kids. I think everyone is afraid to rock the boat with a coach who isn't from their school. And the boys who made the team certainly aren't going to say anything.

I guess I'm just venting because its quite an injustice.

KC... everything you've said above may be true. The ONLY part that would matter to me is "did he keep the best players". I bet if I asked him he would say yes. If he'd say no then I agree, he's a dummy. You (and others) think he's wrong. He's the Coach..often they know more about the players than you think.

This (or some variation) happens on most teams every year... You're right, it is sad.

There are good and bad coaches but the cuts are his domain not parents or anyone elses

I will tell you this: if I am the coach and I make the cuts and then hear that parents went to the AD and cried about it--the situation either stays as it is, they are cut, or I,as the coach, pack my bags and leave right then and there.

I also do not consider it to be sad--I consider it to be part of life and growing up to face reality

Did he tell everyone that cuts could happen to anyone? If so, then no one has anything to complain about. I made it clear to my players at the end of my first year that no one, not senior, not former starter was promised a spot the next season....and when cuts were made, it was clear that those players had not prepared for the season, so it was really their choice.

"If a player has contributed 3 years to the program, he is automatically on varsity his senior year. No guaranteed playing time, but rostered his last season of HS"

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A little power can be dangerous in some coaches hands.

Apathy is more dangerous.

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A little power can be dangerous in some coaches hands

A three year contributor is usually a pretty good cheerleader...........

That's been my observation.

Cheerleaders are not what baseball teams need, they need ballplayers. If they want to cheerlead, that can be done from the stands.

If a player knows that improvement is needed, and yet doesn't do what is necessary, then they have cut themselves.

Here is part of the original post

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We are friends with one of the seniors who was cut. He plays baseball almost year-round, has several colleges asking him to visit (Div 2 and NAIA) and attended good college camps last summer with positive feedback. He's a solid player, not a superstar, but competitive with the level of play we see at varsity in our area. He seems to be getting a bad deal his last year of HS. This will be devastating to his efforts to play college ball.

I think some are skipping past the above part of the post. If this is true, I can not understand why a coach would cut this particular senior. I agree with building for the future, but not at the expense of the present.

Then again, there might be a lot more to the story. I just don't feel the neccessity to stick up for every high school coach in America. There are some bad apples out there. And if you're coaching at that level, there has to be more involved than just winning games. This is not the Big Leagues as much as many coaches want it to be.

All great coaches aren't super tough guys or Mr. Baseball. Somehow, this confuses many people and young coaches think they have to be super tough guys or they can't get the job done.

The coach at my son's HS has a great approach. If you are a senior (and have been with the program) you are on the team. However, the coach is honest and up front if a senior will not be getting playing time--and gives THEM the option of being part of the team, or giving it up. Some stay, some leave, but it's their choice. One who got "the talk," stayed last year, ended up as our starting RF.

Seniors who do not get to play are often emotionally hurt and eventually, through their actions, detrimental to the team. However, this isn't always the case and why a coach should make his judgement player to player. We have at least one that will receive very little playing time. I've talked with him up front about it. I've told him I consider him an inspiration to our team. (Reason not to be shared on this site.) His answer when I told him he wouldn't play much or at all so do you want to be on the team was, "Coach, I love baseball. I want to be on the team." I have a uniform for this young man and anyone like him.

caochb - good post - once again.

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His answer when I told him he wouldn't play much or at all so do you want to be on the team was, "Coach, I love baseball. I want to be on the team." I have a uniform for this young man and anyone like him.

And, I saw a young player like him receive "The Heart" or "Hustle Award" voted on by his teammates at the end of the season, and IF, he ever stepped on the field, it was as a pinch runner.

Tiger3Boy, you can observe a lot by watching...........

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Seniors who do not get to play are often emotionally hurt and eventually, through their actions, detrimental to the team

This in my experience is the norm.

Former, you seem to be missing my point...the only player I am going to cut is one who has done nothing tho improve their skills, but has come out "expecting" a courtesy spot for their Senior year.

It is interesting that you earlier brought up cheerleading, at our school, cheerleaders attend camps, work out 9 months a year, and are cut if they do not improve from year to year...why should we expect less from baseball players?

Senior or not, baseball is competition, if you want to watch, take a spot in the stands, otherwise, bring something that can benefit the team on the field.

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"If a player has contributed 3 years to the program, he is automatically on varsity his senior year. No guaranteed playing time, but rostered his last season of HS

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His answer when I told him he wouldn't play much or at all so do you want to be on the team was, "Coach, I love baseball. I want to be on the team." I have a uniform for this young man and anyone like him

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Some stay, some leave, but it's their choice. One who got "the talk," stayed last year, ended up as our starting RF.

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And, I saw a young player like him receive "The Heart" or "Hustle Award" voted on by his teammates at the end of the season, and IF, he ever stepped on the field, it was as a pinch runner

(Forgive me for quoting myself.)

This kid makes the team.

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...the only player I am going to cut is one who has done nothing tho improve their skills, but has come out "expecting" a courtesy spot for their Senior year

Cut 'em.

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cheerleading, at our school, cheerleaders attend camps, work out 9 months a year, and are cut if they do not improve from year to year...

I wasn't talking about these cheerleaders. I was talking about the kid that encourages the starters, gets bats, gets helmets, keeps score, stays in the game, etc.

And, you are correct about the cheerleader world. Those moms are much more brutal and cutthroat than us kinder gentler men.

Git ur chair, PDiddy.

Were these players returning varsity players?

I'm not one of those who believe you cut juniors who don't make varsity, especially not pitchers, because sometimes a junior on JV hasn't fully matured while the junior on Varsity may have peaked, but if they weren't on varsity as juniors they shouldn't expect to be guaranteed a spot as seniors.

Now if a player was on varsity as a junior and played at all they should be kept unless there's some sort of attitude issue.

Our varsity coach tends to find a way to keep the seniors who want to be part of the program something to do that keeps them involved even if it isn't as a player.

In my opinion it just depends on the kid and the situation. I have had seniors that did nothing to improve and thought they had earned the right to play because they had been there for four years. I have had seniors that worked their butts off but just were not very talented and were beaten out for playing time. Some kids can handle not playing as upperclassman and some can not. If a player can not help us and they are a kid that has worked very hard and has been loyal to the program I talk to them. I tell them what I see their role being and I have to believe that they can handle that role. If I have any doubt I cut them. I do not need a potential cancer in the dugout. If I have a senior that has not worked to improve himself and I do not feel that he can help us I cut him. If you keep the players that can help you win and reward those that have had a great work ethic and attitude and can handle their role whatever it is you dont have problems. But if you start keeping kids based on seniority and not on ability and work ethic, well you are going to regret it big time on and off the field.

Just a quick update about this situation and the coaching decisions. I really appreciate all the great posts above and wish we had such quality coaches at more high schools.

We haven't begun games yet in our district, but two of this team's varsity players have already quit. One junior and one senior. The reasons for quitting are individual, but all related to the coaching situation. One player told the coach he wouldn't play for anyone who lied to him (a situation separate from the tryouts) and the other cited his disgust with the way the coach was handling the team (playing favorites, picking scapegoats at practice to humiliate as a motivator). It seems that where there's smoke, there's fire.

I don't see any positive ending for our friend who was initially cut, but wanted to update this post with its current status. There are some great coaches out there, but when a coach is not held to the same standards of character that we expect from our students, he needs to be held accountable. He's really messed up not only our friend's senior year, but this high school's entire baseball program. I guess the coach is learning some valuable on-the-job lessons about how to interact with kids. Coaches are not elevated to an untouchable status above the rest of the world, just because they stepped up to coach hs baseball.

KC:
I just sent you a PM...

PG, you have a PM.

Someone asks if the Senior in question is good why cut him.

Here's the logic a young guy has who's a new coach. The first thing he assesses is "can i win this year" - if he thinks no then he says. When can I win?

Eventually he says I have few seniors who may be slightly better than my underclassmen AND if I keep them everyone will say why isn't the senior playing he's better (if only marginally).

To the coach he does not want that controversy in a 10-10 season HE WANTS TO WIN! He figures his chance to win is in the future and he needs to give the underclassmen playing time so that they can be ready as seniors.

This attitude is strictly about the W's and L's.

Not what I'd want in a coach - but I'd bet this is what's going through this guys head.

You see this mentality in pro ball (marlins) and in College.

A particular D-1 college hired a new young coach 2 years ago. Not sure if it was his doing (never sure in college because of the transfer rule) but they lost about 8-10 scholarship players of which 3 where drafted before the 15th round.

The program had been mediocre at best. With the "house cleared" he only had a roster of 22 and they lost big time. But this year, he recruited well the JCs and some good frosh. And guess what - they are kicking butt he will be the conference coach of the year and I'd bet he garners some national attention as well.

The point is here's the model which a young (generation X) coach sees. The problem is most of the posters here are "baby boomers." Professional studies have shown Generation X is about results with little or no social concience. Baby Boomers have that social conscience.

Bottom line is that to win a caoch needs the best players he can get--be they seniors or not---each year stands on its own merits and talent

It is not always so cut & dried. A strong program which plays weak competition doesn't have to have its absolute best nine on the field. Coaches are not often choosing a terrible player (e.g., rated a 1 out of ten) over a stud (rated a 10). Rather they are choosing between an 8 and 9 (for example).

Thus other factors can enter into the equation. And if the 8 (or even a 6 or 7) is chosen over the 9, the coach still probably gets his wins.

So you are the coach & your program is underfunded by the school (as are most baseball programs). You don't really want to move again. Fortunately, you are in a weak district and are at the top end of the enrollment for your school's classification.

You have a couple of players (A&B) whose dads write very big checks to the booster club. You have several players (C, D, E, F) whose parents went to the AD & school board with complaints last year. And they got what they wanted.

Now, there is another player (G) who is be a somewhat better player than the aforementioned players (A-F). But his dad doesn't write big checks and doesn't believe in intimidating the coach via the AD or school board.

Now which player is going to get the short end of the stick when decisions are made?

You can bet it's not going to be A or B. No, that would cost your program too much money. And not C-F, which could also jeopardize your job.

No, give G the short end of the stick. He is better, but the team can still get its share of W's without him in the starting nine. And there is no price to pay for leaving him down.

It happens...

things that stick out to me.
1) d2 and naia looking at the kid,how bad can he be?i agree it's a coaches decision, but this situation is strange.the boy should have told the coach about the colleges imo.
2) the father wrote big checks to the boosters.i have been our booster guy for about 3 years.know one knows who writes checks,not even the coach.most coaches are to busy with the team to run the check book.and most don't want to know who wrote the big check.shouldn't matter.just my opinion

Around here, the parents writing big booster checks personally make sure the coach knows they wrote the check.

i just wish we had parents writing big checks. must be nice. guess we'll just have to keep selling our cookie dough, espn subscritions, etc. lol.

Interesting that posts like this get different responses depending on who you are, mom, dad or coach.
I would expect a coach to roster the best players, that's part of his job. I also expect a coach to have compassion, that's part of his job too and cutting a player who has college interest and given three years to the team has to be a fairly good player and it makes no sense to me.
Around here a senior who has given that much time and played decently makes the varsity team. The younger players go to JV.
JMO.

we never cut anybody - especially seniors. we play the best 9. the cutting thing works itself out. we've had some players become awful good seniors that might have been cut when they were freshman if we'd cut. kids weed themselves out during freshman ball, jv ball, summer ball, winter workouts, etc. we demand alot out of them. if they are still around their senior year they deserve it and have already proven they are the type of kid we want in our program.