D1 College Blue

NCAA is big on improving pace of play.

Bless them for trying...

These long games are insane.

If I want to watch a long game, I'll watch the Red Sox and Yankees play. No use for it at any other level, or even that level if ESPN or Fox isn't egging them along.

Have you ever noticed how the game seems to move along pretty well until the 6th inning or so? Thats about time the bull pen starts heating up and the 3rd baseman comes in for a quick talk with the pitcher. Then the catcher heads out. Then after another pitch the pitching coach heads out. Then after a couple of more pitches the HC comes out for a long talk. Then the bull pen is summoned and here comes the relief pitcher. Then the HC has a talk with him. Then he takes his warm up pitches. Then the catcher has another talk with him. Then he pitches to his one batter and the whole process starts over again. Kind of like this post it just wears on you. Then the other team finally hits the field and they start doing the exact same thing. Before you know it it took 1 hour and a half to play the first 5 or 6 and another 2 to play the last 3.

Yup, although the Yankees and Sox hitters will still see about 4-6 pitches each, even in the early innings.

I can handle that but five minutes between pitches? Come on...

Very rarely do HS games last over 2 hrs, varsity or JV.

Funny story about D1 college umping. Son is a soph @ a D1 college, is a catcher so has lots of interaction with umps. Last year he almost got tossed out of a league game for subtly showing the ump the strike zone too long (framing the pitch). I was mortified as a parent because I had never seen my son almost get tossed. Anyway, things settled down after coach talked to ump and son.

Fast forward to this year. I was complaining to son after a game about the strike zone being too erratic. He defended the home plate ump and said he did a good job and was calling it both ways. Come to find out from son it was the same ump that almost tossed him last year. Turns out they saw each other in the airport last year and started their relationship over and now are very cordial to each other.

Too often as spectators we don't see the perspective from behind the plate and are probably too quick to criticize the umps. So, all those umps out there, thanks for doing what you do because without you our kids couldn't play the game they love!

I would guess your son is the type of catcher who smothers balls in the dirt with nobody on. We just love that stuff - it helps us do a better job.

In the last two years, I have seen 70+ high school games. Only one was played in under two hours. This was a summer scrimmage that my son and a club ball teammate each pitched opposing each other. That game finished 1-0, in about 65 minutes. I think our opponent threw 65 pitches in 7 and my son threw about 60 in 6 (we lost, because they knew how to bunt).

None of the others were played in less than two hours, most well over 2 1/2. Not the 1-0 one hitter, not the 10-0 run rule with all runs scored in bottom of 5, not in any case.

Our record was 3:47 in a 15-14 conference clincher (7 innings). There was a baby born during warm ups and by the third inning was walking. Around the fifth he was reading and by the seventh he went in to pitch.

Mr. Taylor, if you would come to AZ and umpire our games and have half of them played in 2 hours, I would pay for your ticket and put you up in a nice place to stay. Your first challenge will be to limit us to <35 signs to call a fastball (30 seconds between pitches). Next, you'll have to discipline our conference's coaches about wanting to 'discuss' EVERYTHING. We have at least five 'discussions' every game (most without merit).

A two hour game in a non-scrimmage around here would have to be called for rain in the fourth...

Game management is one of the things that helps you move up. You can call the best strikezone in the group but if you can't control the game you won't move as far as you would like.
I have no problem with a coach coming out and certain sitches he isn't doing his job if he doesn't. If there is a ligit discussion then I will listen to him, explain what I have then breifly discuss it from there. If it is obvious that he isn't seeing the light I tell him the discussion is over unless he would like to protest. If there is no reason for him to be out, it is a short discussion and back to the dugout.
For taking too long getting signs in, I talk to the manager between innings and let him know the pace needs to pick up. Chirping is shut down early.
The neighboring conference allows too much **** during their games and the coaches are always confused when we don't let the HS go on.

JMoff,

If I am not mistaken HS rules require a pitcher to deliver the pitch within 20 seconds of recieving the ball. If the umpire would just enforce that rule and call a ball when 20 seconds are up then that forces the managers to get signs in quickly. And 20 seconds is a long time to deliver the pitch.

Even with 300 pitches total plus time between batters,innings and visits by the coach that still should bring games to an end in around 2 hours.

300/20sec =100
2 min per half inning warmup = 2+2 *7 =28
plus 10min incidental = 138 min or 2 hours and 18 min total. That is a long 300 pitch game.

In college and pro ball I think the delivery time is 12 seconds from recieving the ball.

quote:

Our record was 3:47 in a 15-14 conference clincher (7 innings). There was a baby born during warm ups and by the third inning was walking. Around the fifth he was reading and by the seventh he went in to pitch.

This could be the funniest thing I've ever read in my life.

I won't argue with the math or the 20 second time limit, but it isn't imposed here in AZ.

Here is a typical sequence, pitcher looks in (for 10 seconds), gets nothing, steps off, coach signals in sign, as that happens, batter asks for time, is granted and steps out. He steps in and we throw ball one (net 30-40 seconds). We then repeat the sequence.

If somebody would impose a 20 second time limit and hold the batters in the box, It would help a lot.

If the time limits are real and aren't enforced, perhaps I can bring it up with AIA (Arizona governing body)? They certainly haven't been enforced and these games border on insane times...

My son's pitching coach says he should be on a 7-8 second sequence, but that simply isn't possible with these constraints.

...and Mike the offer to come out and teach our guys still holds...

I've seen it done right (like the original thread comments), but it just doesn't seem to happen in our games... Our team contributes to the problems, no question and I wish they'd make us stop...

11. The pitcher must pitch or make a play within 20 seconds after receiving the ball, with or without runners. (OBR: the 20-second rule is in effect only when the bases are empty.)

Someone who has a book in front of them can tell you the rule number to use when mentionng it. It might be just as simple to discuss with the umpire away from everyone before the game starts until someone takes charge and enforces it. Most umpires I know want to get done as quickly as they can and get home or to the next game.

A habit of stepping off the rubber could also be taken as a delay of game, esp when there are no runners on base. ball/balk if the umpires want to enforce that as well.

Call a ball when the pitcher violates the 20 second rule. I doubt you will have to do it more than once.

Don't give a batter time unless there is a good reason. "No - stay in here." Eventually, they will stop asking (nobody likes to be told "no").

quote:

Originally posted by JMoff:
...and Mike the offer to come out and teach our guys still holds...

I've seen it done right (like the original thread comments), but it just doesn't seem to happen in our games... Our team contributes to the problems, no question and I wish they'd make us stop...

You get me there and I will teach anytime you want. I watched two games and worked one this week, 1:45, 1:50 and 1:52, all seven inning games. My game was the 1:50 and when I got in my truck I already had a missed call from a crew that had done a JV game and were already done.
Most of our nine inning college and summer wooden bat games are 2:45 to 3:00. I did do a double seven a few years ago that went 11 in the first game, 9 in the second. It started at 7:00 PM and finished at 2:45 AM. Not pretty.

Mike, I might try and hook you up with the AIA guys. I watched closely today to make sure I wasn't exaggerating (you know, the baby being born in warm ups and pitching the 7th and all).

Tonight, we had a 4-0 game through 3 1/2 at 60 minutes and I thought you were going to make me a liar, but it slowed down and a walk-off 7-6 game in the bottom of 7 was completed in 2:32. This game only had one pitched walk (two IBB's in the bottom of 7 with no pitches thrown). It was all hits, errors, foul balls and long delays between pitches.

It's the 'between pitch' stuff that kills me. The 20 second rule is not enforced. The game is so much better when the catcher sticks some fingers down and the pitcher throws. My son had one rough half inning where he threw 30 pitches. According to the video camera time, it took 19:31 to play it. Lots of bloopers and bleeders, but still...

We have another game tomorrow and I'll put it on a stop watch to see what we're reallying doing there.

Pitchers can't pitch in rythm with these long delays...

Wow! That does seem excessively long JMoff...The game I attended tonight had a late start for our 6:30 game - probably at least 15 minutes late...15 runs were scored and it went the full 7 innings...I live about 15-20 miles away from the field where they played and I was home by 9:15...The game couldn't have been much over 2 hours if that...

So far my 7 inning games have averaged 1:49 with none lasting more than 1:56. (And that one had 15 runs scored)

Nothing mystical. The umpires need to not just whine and demand, but set the example with their own hustle and stay focused on what's going on during deadball situations and between innings.

I always tell the pitcher warmming up when he has two left and tell the on-deck batter when he has one left. It keeps them, especially the batter, in the game and ready to play. You can alwasy knock 30 seconds or more off a halfinning...that's at least 7 minutes a game.

JMoff:
Pay attention to what the umpires are doing between innings. If they aren't observing what the teams are doing on the changeover then that can take forever too. I'm not saying you have to run roughshod over the players but get somebody out to warm the pitcher up if the catcher isn't ready, and other small things to help move the game. Having a good method to handle line-up changes is a big help. If the line-up change comes in the middle of the inning DO NOT go to the dugout and have an extended conversation on who is going where. If there is a spelling issue they can ask the base coach.

Tonight's game was a crisp 1:40. Both team's pitchers threw ~100 pitches, so it moved along.

The between inning is a good comment. Some guys are on it, most are just chatting and then a sub is reported, then they spend five minutes making a note of it, etc... The pinch runners for the pitcher and catcher are taking time as well.

I make fun of closing on a house in the time it takes a softball umpire to log a pinch runner... HS U's are coming close. Who really cares who runs for the pitcher or catcher? Whatever happened to "8 running for the pitcher" and if it isn't right, let the other team complain about it.

I timed the time between pitches and most were 16-18 seconds. We had a few go 22-24, but not as many as I would've thought. Of course, this game was played very crisply.

Most of our fans were complaining it was too fast, they'd just gotten there and in less than 2 hours, we were done. "Heck, it isn't even dark yet and the dang thing's over". We won 7-1, so they didn't complain a whole lot. I plan to take the same data on one of our longer games.

Actually tracking CRs is important. Many managers will try to use the same guy for both positions which isn't allowed. However, I always write F1, F2 on the back of each line-up card before the game. When they use a CR I just write the number next to the correct position, usually takes less time than getting the runner there.
Of course you jinxed me, I had a 3:00 game today. 9-7 game with a lot of runners and pitches. Can't really point at anything the PU could have done other than really stay on them to hustle.

I put the courtesy runners on the lineup card. I put the name, jersey number and which position they run for. I let the ump know / other team know at the pregame meeting.

The main problem seems to be the threshold around 15 seconds to call in a pitch. It's at that point that a hitter decides to call time, step out, pitcher steps off, batter steps back in and catcher runs through the signs again. That turns the 16 second between pitch delay into a 30+ second between pitch delay...

As I analyize this, I think we're about three seconds from being in the box (quick enough to avoid the call of time and subsequent delays). Don't know what I'm going to do about it but that seems to be the issue.

The coaches arguing everything else is something the umpires are going to have to deal with. They argue everything in conference, to a fault. That's a culture change that needs to happen.

Arguing calls is absolutely something the umpires can control and need to control. On a judgment call the managers really have no business coming out but they do. These should be made as short as possible. Let the coach have his say, tell him you didn't see it his way and it's time to play baseball and walk away. If he follows then he signed his death warrent. If it is a rules question then let him have his say, explain what you have and how you are ruling. If there isn't a meeting of the minds then ask if he would like to protest. I always assure them that I have no problem taking their protest. If he isn't interested in protesting then tell him it's time to play baseball and walk away.....
This a simplified version but basically how it goes. The exact order depends on the umpire's experience level, personality, relationship with the teams, and level.
I luckily have been in my area long enough that I can say and do things that would never fly with a newer official. Some officials are very intense type A guys and others are more laid back and it affects how they manage a game. The same is true with the managers. How they react to plays and how the umpires talk them.
There is no cut and dried way to handle a situation, there are guidelines and then you go from there. A group nearby has a tendency to let the coaches talk too much and it seems to be across all sports.
I officiate two sports, s****r and baseball, and TD tournaments for basketball,wrestling and softball. In all the sports I am involved in they are allowed to talk too mush and come out too much. They seem shocked when they play in our area and they get shut down for yakking.
A cuple of years ago I was doing a s****r game and the ball went over the endline. The goalie dove for it but never touched it so I awarded a goal kick. I turn and look and my partner ran all the way across the field to ask if I had it off the goalie, the coach wanted to know. I meant to say something to him at halftime and forgot. Sure enough I have have another ball go out and I award the throw-in. Here comes my partner at the coaches request. Grrrrrr. He was from the same area as the coach, me from the next area over.

Jmoff, Unfortunately you get to watch Highland primarily. Scott has a way of slowing down games.

I could go into a lot of detail, but basically Scott likes to control all aspects of the game.

From calling all pitches, pick offs, etc.

I had a real interesting game at Hamilton with Highland in the last two years. The pace of play was completely different depending on whether Hamilton was on defense or Highland. Night and day difference in the pace. I will let you guess who was slow and who was fast.

Good luck to your son on wherever he goes!

Ump34, thanks...

I sent you a PM

I'm not big on HS coaches calling all the pitches. Let's just stop that snd the games will move along better. Your catcher should be smart enough to call pitches by the time they are playing varsity.


My kid is a catcher, so maybe I'm biased. He called pitches all the way to a championship last fall, and is calling the pitches on JV again this spring (so far). It keeps the pitcher and catcher focused on the field, not the dugout.

I've got no problem with them calling pitches, just call pitches.

When I called pitches, I knew what I wanted to do. I was always waiting for the catcher to look. When the catcher looks, looks, looks again, batter calls time, look, get, accept, throw... Too long.

Stick a finger down and let the pitcher decide if he needs more fingers.