I've read a lot of lamenting over this issue in the past few weeks and frankly, the past many years...
What say you?
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Uh oh...Get ready for a long thread here!
One observation I'll share that I think has some relevance to the question: If you'll take a look at the names of schools in the subject column of the "Ask About College" forum, there is a wonderfully diverse list there.
What that says to me above all else is that this site caters to about as wide a range of post-high school playing opportunities as it could. I, for one, happen to think that's a VERY good thing, as divisions/classifications other than Division I are highly attractive alternatives for many players.
This game offers an incredibly wide range of ways to remain active in it beyond high school. It becomes each player's responsibility to learn all he can about what he believes to be the best groups of those for him...and then do everything he can to get himself there.
One observation I'll share that I think has some relevance to the question: If you'll take a look at the names of schools in the subject column of the "Ask About College" forum, there is a wonderfully diverse list there.
What that says to me above all else is that this site caters to about as wide a range of post-high school playing opportunities as it could. I, for one, happen to think that's a VERY good thing, as divisions/classifications other than Division I are highly attractive alternatives for many players.
This game offers an incredibly wide range of ways to remain active in it beyond high school. It becomes each player's responsibility to learn all he can about what he believes to be the best groups of those for him...and then do everything he can to get himself there.
Here is what I tell every one of my players who plays for me:
Goals without hard work and dedication are just wishes.
Have team goals for our season, not team wishes.
Have individual goals for yourself, not individual wishes.
The teams and players that understand these differences become champions
If a player makes it a goal to play D-1 baseball and they work their butt off for it and they decide to go D1 because that was their goal….God Bless them, they achieved what they set out to do. No one could tell them it was wrong to do. If they find out they should have expanded their options and they transfer...its not the end of the world. They achieved what they worked for and it didn't work out. They will never wonder what if....
However what I try to get my players to do is to work their butts off in the classroom, on the field and in training so they could achieve and obtain as many opportunities as possible. Ranging from D1, D2, D3, NAIA, JUCO or drafted. When faced with having to make their college decision most look at the choice at that point not in terms of D1, D2, D3, NAIA, JUCO or drafted but one of what they could afford, chance to play and play a lot, how well they like the coach and maybe most importantly the school and the academic fit for them. While they may have had a D1 or bust attitude to start, practical issues take over. Had they not shot for all opportunities, none might exist.
While D1 is a great goal to work for, its not a failure if you don’t go D1 for many reasons. It has been my experience that most “D1 or bust” thoughts come from freshman or sophomore parents and players who have not totally understood the importance of what they could afford, chance to play and play a lot, how well they like the coach and maybe most importantly the school and the academic fit for them. This does not mean however that you should not work for the goal of having D1 as one of your possibilities.
Goals without hard work and dedication are just wishes.
Have team goals for our season, not team wishes.
Have individual goals for yourself, not individual wishes.
The teams and players that understand these differences become champions
If a player makes it a goal to play D-1 baseball and they work their butt off for it and they decide to go D1 because that was their goal….God Bless them, they achieved what they set out to do. No one could tell them it was wrong to do. If they find out they should have expanded their options and they transfer...its not the end of the world. They achieved what they worked for and it didn't work out. They will never wonder what if....
However what I try to get my players to do is to work their butts off in the classroom, on the field and in training so they could achieve and obtain as many opportunities as possible. Ranging from D1, D2, D3, NAIA, JUCO or drafted. When faced with having to make their college decision most look at the choice at that point not in terms of D1, D2, D3, NAIA, JUCO or drafted but one of what they could afford, chance to play and play a lot, how well they like the coach and maybe most importantly the school and the academic fit for them. While they may have had a D1 or bust attitude to start, practical issues take over. Had they not shot for all opportunities, none might exist.
While D1 is a great goal to work for, its not a failure if you don’t go D1 for many reasons. It has been my experience that most “D1 or bust” thoughts come from freshman or sophomore parents and players who have not totally understood the importance of what they could afford, chance to play and play a lot, how well they like the coach and maybe most importantly the school and the academic fit for them. This does not mean however that you should not work for the goal of having D1 as one of your possibilities.
shortnquick- Good post.
Inserting foot inside mouth and shamelessly self-promoting
: Talked a little bit about this here
Inserting foot inside mouth and shamelessly self-promoting
: Talked a little bit about this here
This should be a short thread how can you add to shortnquick's post.
quote:Originally posted by bacdorslider:
This should be a short thread how can you add to shortnquick's post.
I agree
Agree...Josh, good add with the link to your prior post...a player's perspective.
Bum, Jr. went D1 after h.s. and didn't play much. He eventually transferred to another D1.
He had the choice out of h.s. to play for Yavapai, a nationally recognized J.C. or play for the local D1 school. It worked out in the end, but I agree, D1 is not always the way to go. If he had to do it again, he would have played for Yavapai.
He had the choice out of h.s. to play for Yavapai, a nationally recognized J.C. or play for the local D1 school. It worked out in the end, but I agree, D1 is not always the way to go. If he had to do it again, he would have played for Yavapai.
quote:Originally posted by shortnquick:
Here is what I tell every one of my players who plays for me:
Goals without hard work and dedication are just wishes.
Have team goals for our season, not team wishes.
Have individual goals for yourself, not individual wishes.
The teams and players that understand these differences become champions
If a player makes it a goal to play D-1 baseball and they work their butt off for it and they decide to go D1 because that was their goal….God Bless them, they achieved what they set out to do. No one could tell them it was wrong to do. If they find out they should have expanded their options and they transfer...its not the end of the world. They achieved what they worked for and it didn't work out. They will never wonder what if....
However what I try to get my players to do is to work their butts off in the classroom, on the field and in training so they could achieve and obtain as many opportunities as possible. Ranging from D1, D2, D3, NAIA, JUCO or drafted. When faced with having to make their college decision most look at the choice at that point not in terms of D1, D2, D3, NAIA, JUCO or drafted but one of what they could afford, chance to play and play a lot, how well they like the coach and maybe most importantly the school and the academic fit for them. While they may have had a D1 or bust attitude to start, practical issues take over. Had they not shot for all opportunities, none might exist.
While D1 is a great goal to work for, its not a failure if you don’t go D1 for many reasons. It has been my experience that most “D1 or bust” thoughts come from freshman or sophomore parents and players who have not totally understood the importance of what they could afford, chance to play and play a lot, how well they like the coach and maybe most importantly the school and the academic fit for them. This does not mean however that you should not work for the goal of having D1 as one of your possibilities.
Agree 100%! Super post! This should make my original estimate inaccurate.
"D1 or Bust?"
Naive.
I could go on all day about this, but will try to keep it short.
- Lots of money at D3 level. Probably more academic money/grants/etc at D3 then D1 baseball money.
- Lots of TOP TOP academics.
- Opportunity to PLAY! Competitors want to PLAY. Not WATCH! Want to be a bull pen catcher or an All-American?
- Highly competitive baseball.
- School needs to fit 3 area... Academic, Athletic, Social... Not happy in 1 will effect the overall. Being on the bench would make me unhappy.
- This goes for most kids and most parents... Just because you haven't heard of the school, doesn't mean its not great. Most kids (and many parents) know the big schools because they have big football/basketball teams. Just because they don't play against Notre Dame on Saturdays doesn't make the school bad.
- No matter what level of ball, be sure you are going somewhere you are going to be happy for 4 years with or without baseball. Would you be ok there if you have career ending injury on day 1?
I played D1 baseball. It was a good fit for me. The academics were over my head, but a strong degree was a priority of mine. I also managed to be an every day guy on the field. That being said, I visited multiple D3 programs during my recruiting process. If they had been the better fit for me I would not have had any regrets about telling the D1 no.
Rich
www.PlayInSchool.com
Naive.
I could go on all day about this, but will try to keep it short.
- Lots of money at D3 level. Probably more academic money/grants/etc at D3 then D1 baseball money.
- Lots of TOP TOP academics.
- Opportunity to PLAY! Competitors want to PLAY. Not WATCH! Want to be a bull pen catcher or an All-American?
- Highly competitive baseball.
- School needs to fit 3 area... Academic, Athletic, Social... Not happy in 1 will effect the overall. Being on the bench would make me unhappy.
- This goes for most kids and most parents... Just because you haven't heard of the school, doesn't mean its not great. Most kids (and many parents) know the big schools because they have big football/basketball teams. Just because they don't play against Notre Dame on Saturdays doesn't make the school bad.
- No matter what level of ball, be sure you are going somewhere you are going to be happy for 4 years with or without baseball. Would you be ok there if you have career ending injury on day 1?
I played D1 baseball. It was a good fit for me. The academics were over my head, but a strong degree was a priority of mine. I also managed to be an every day guy on the field. That being said, I visited multiple D3 programs during my recruiting process. If they had been the better fit for me I would not have had any regrets about telling the D1 no.
Rich
www.PlayInSchool.com
For my son it's College level ball or Bust.....what Division doesn't really matter...if there is a spot available and the desire to play, then that is all that is needed
I think any kid who wants to play college baseball ought to give it a shot. But, there is an important point to keep in mind that seems to be missing here.
I see lots of advice for players to pick a school where they can play. Here is the hard part: It is difficult to know what school that is. What if you can play at Texas but turn down the opportunity because you are not sure? The only way to find out is to give it a shot.
The other part is this: Competition exists at D3 schools just as it does at D1 schools. Intense competition. There are more players sitting at D3 schools than there are players playing. Same with D2 and D1. There are only 9 spots on the field and typically rosters of approximately 35.
It is a fact of life that anywhere you go in college, it is tough to get into the lineup. I contend you can be a successful (and happy) college player with sporadic playing time if you carry the right outlook regardless of your role.
Or maybe your role simply is not as a player.
I see lots of advice for players to pick a school where they can play. Here is the hard part: It is difficult to know what school that is. What if you can play at Texas but turn down the opportunity because you are not sure? The only way to find out is to give it a shot.
The other part is this: Competition exists at D3 schools just as it does at D1 schools. Intense competition. There are more players sitting at D3 schools than there are players playing. Same with D2 and D1. There are only 9 spots on the field and typically rosters of approximately 35.
It is a fact of life that anywhere you go in college, it is tough to get into the lineup. I contend you can be a successful (and happy) college player with sporadic playing time if you carry the right outlook regardless of your role.
Or maybe your role simply is not as a player.
This is in response to jemaz. You are absolutely correct. If you like the school and it is the right fit, what it the harm in trying.
I know a kid who picked school only on the academics and social aspects, he had decided to give up baseball at college. The school he chose is a D2 school. He had been recruited by a couple of D3's.
He went to the school and the only regret he had is that he did not attempt to walk on his Freshman year. The Fall of his sophomore year he decided to give it a try. Turns out he was the last kid cut from the team this fall.
The coach was looking for one more situational right handed pitcher. They told him that he had enough speed for them but did not have quite enough command of his second pitch. Kid now wishes that he had not taken the year after HS off. He had better control of his second pitch the year before, his freshman year. He now wonders if he could of made the team last year. That is his only regret. He is still very happy at the school and would not have gone anywhere else.
I know a kid who picked school only on the academics and social aspects, he had decided to give up baseball at college. The school he chose is a D2 school. He had been recruited by a couple of D3's.
He went to the school and the only regret he had is that he did not attempt to walk on his Freshman year. The Fall of his sophomore year he decided to give it a try. Turns out he was the last kid cut from the team this fall.
The coach was looking for one more situational right handed pitcher. They told him that he had enough speed for them but did not have quite enough command of his second pitch. Kid now wishes that he had not taken the year after HS off. He had better control of his second pitch the year before, his freshman year. He now wonders if he could of made the team last year. That is his only regret. He is still very happy at the school and would not have gone anywhere else.
This is interesting!
Maybe there are no clear answers. With 30 years of experience with the Area Code games and Goodwill International Series, Our pro scouts/coaches and I have interview, evaluated and discussed this D-1 situation with over 10,000 players and their parents.
There is a "common" tread.
The player who is prepared to play on the next level has an advance knowledge of the requirements for college baseball. At our local college [D-2], each year there are ten "drop downs" from D-1.
Preparation can include "high quality" tournaments where teaching is involved. If a player attends a "showcase" there should be a 4-5 day series of games and instruction. For this reason, I organized the Area Code games for 6 days on one field and the Goodwill Series, 2 weeks and 12 games. The result is that each player will have knowledge of his assets and liabilities and he can be realistic.
If a high school senior has "above average" ability, I would place the player in a College Summer League. This will provide a "head start" for his freshman year.
During my freshman year at MSU, the freshman class of 5,000 students were told by the Dean of Students - "look to your right and look to your left", these students will not be here in 4 years.
Bob
Maybe there are no clear answers. With 30 years of experience with the Area Code games and Goodwill International Series, Our pro scouts/coaches and I have interview, evaluated and discussed this D-1 situation with over 10,000 players and their parents.
There is a "common" tread.
The player who is prepared to play on the next level has an advance knowledge of the requirements for college baseball. At our local college [D-2], each year there are ten "drop downs" from D-1.
Preparation can include "high quality" tournaments where teaching is involved. If a player attends a "showcase" there should be a 4-5 day series of games and instruction. For this reason, I organized the Area Code games for 6 days on one field and the Goodwill Series, 2 weeks and 12 games. The result is that each player will have knowledge of his assets and liabilities and he can be realistic.
If a high school senior has "above average" ability, I would place the player in a College Summer League. This will provide a "head start" for his freshman year.
During my freshman year at MSU, the freshman class of 5,000 students were told by the Dean of Students - "look to your right and look to your left", these students will not be here in 4 years.
Bob
My guy was followed pretty hard back in '08 by FSU and I was sure that they would offer $$. I would get calls from the head recruiter after events telling me how well my guy performed, and how much they liked him. We were sort of expecting an offer.
2008, for those who may not know was the year that rosters were cut and the 25% minimum scholarship was instituted. It was a time of upheaval for D1 Baseball. In the end, my son was offered a Recruited Walk-on spot. He would get all the perks, Oakleys, Training Shoes, Glove, etc., but no money. In Florida he qualified for Bright Futures, so he did have some money from his Academic accomplishments. But the lack of monetary commitment bothered us all.
In the end we believed that no matter where he played, he would be followed by the Pro Scouting community since he was already on their radar.
A broken leg later and much of that changed.
He still had solid D2 offers after his injury available, but he still believed he might be drafted, in spite of not playing his Senior HS year.
He almost pulled that off too.
Anyway he chose to play JUCO here in Florida and then went on to the University of Tampa (D2).
It really worked out very well for him, especially from a Baseball perspective, which was his focus.
We never stressed over D1 or D2 or JUCO. We understood that each of these divisons provide excellent baseball opportunities, especially here in Florida.
2008, for those who may not know was the year that rosters were cut and the 25% minimum scholarship was instituted. It was a time of upheaval for D1 Baseball. In the end, my son was offered a Recruited Walk-on spot. He would get all the perks, Oakleys, Training Shoes, Glove, etc., but no money. In Florida he qualified for Bright Futures, so he did have some money from his Academic accomplishments. But the lack of monetary commitment bothered us all.
In the end we believed that no matter where he played, he would be followed by the Pro Scouting community since he was already on their radar.
A broken leg later and much of that changed.
He still had solid D2 offers after his injury available, but he still believed he might be drafted, in spite of not playing his Senior HS year.
He almost pulled that off too.
Anyway he chose to play JUCO here in Florida and then went on to the University of Tampa (D2).
It really worked out very well for him, especially from a Baseball perspective, which was his focus.
We never stressed over D1 or D2 or JUCO. We understood that each of these divisons provide excellent baseball opportunities, especially here in Florida.
My son's recent decision to verbal to a JUCO revolved around his goal to play D1. He realized that he wasn't D1 talent yet, but has been told by many coaches that he is likely a "late bloomer". So, with that in mind, he sought out a juco program that provided a little warmer climate, coaches who focus on moving players to the next level, good competition, and solid educational opportunities.
His dream may be delayed not derailed. A good JUCO can be a great choice for many kids.
His dream may be delayed not derailed. A good JUCO can be a great choice for many kids.
Just something to consider...
There are many different levels of Juco baseball. There are some that are loaded with DI caliber talent. It's not unusual to see certain Juco programs produce more MLB draft picks than nearly all the DI schools.
I only mention this so people understand how competitive it can be to get lots of playing time at certain programs. And I do think it is important that players continue to develop. So it's important that you find the place you are most likely to have a chance to be in the lineup. That is if playing time is important to you.
I always believe in shooting for the moon, but you need to have what it takes. Listen very carefully to those recruiting you. They're the ones who control the future. They're the ones that place importance on you as a player in their program. Do they say you have a chance to play here right away as a freshman? Do they say you're likely to be a red shirt the first year? Do they say you might start by your junior year? Most importantly, are they going to invest a lot in you?
They, the recruiters, see you a certain way. Immediate impact player, immediate starter, immediate contributer, possible player, gamble, etc.
Often the scholarship offer clears all that up at the scholarship schools. They usually won't invest more than 25% on a possibility or gamble.
At the DIII and other non-scholarship schools, it can be even harder getting a good read on what they are thinking for sure regarding baseball. There are schools that have enrollment quotas that need to be reached by their athletic programs. That is more important than a successful athletic program, though they sometimes go hand in hand. Sure they want good players, but they have to reach quotas for student enrollment purposes. Let's face it, there are a very large number of small colleges that will welcome you to their baseball program as long as you qualify for admittance. It is true that a large number of players never see the field even at the DIII level.
For those that say find a place you would still be happy if you took away baseball… I say that is very good advice! However, I know of many that could never be happy if they took away baseball. They would much rather be at a place they didn’t like playing baseball than at a place they liked with no baseball.
Which one are you? Nothing wrong either way!
There are many different levels of Juco baseball. There are some that are loaded with DI caliber talent. It's not unusual to see certain Juco programs produce more MLB draft picks than nearly all the DI schools.
I only mention this so people understand how competitive it can be to get lots of playing time at certain programs. And I do think it is important that players continue to develop. So it's important that you find the place you are most likely to have a chance to be in the lineup. That is if playing time is important to you.
I always believe in shooting for the moon, but you need to have what it takes. Listen very carefully to those recruiting you. They're the ones who control the future. They're the ones that place importance on you as a player in their program. Do they say you have a chance to play here right away as a freshman? Do they say you're likely to be a red shirt the first year? Do they say you might start by your junior year? Most importantly, are they going to invest a lot in you?
They, the recruiters, see you a certain way. Immediate impact player, immediate starter, immediate contributer, possible player, gamble, etc.
Often the scholarship offer clears all that up at the scholarship schools. They usually won't invest more than 25% on a possibility or gamble.
At the DIII and other non-scholarship schools, it can be even harder getting a good read on what they are thinking for sure regarding baseball. There are schools that have enrollment quotas that need to be reached by their athletic programs. That is more important than a successful athletic program, though they sometimes go hand in hand. Sure they want good players, but they have to reach quotas for student enrollment purposes. Let's face it, there are a very large number of small colleges that will welcome you to their baseball program as long as you qualify for admittance. It is true that a large number of players never see the field even at the DIII level.
For those that say find a place you would still be happy if you took away baseball… I say that is very good advice! However, I know of many that could never be happy if they took away baseball. They would much rather be at a place they didn’t like playing baseball than at a place they liked with no baseball.
Which one are you? Nothing wrong either way!
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff: Listen very carefully to those recruiting you. They're the ones who control the future. They're the ones that place importance on you as a player in their program. Do they say you have a chance to play here right away as a freshman? Do they say you're likely to be a red shirt the first year? Do they say you might start by your junior year? Most importantly, are they going to invest a lot in you?
They, the recruiters, see you a certain way. Immediate impact player, immediate starter, immediate contributer, possible player, gamble, etc.
At the DIII and other non-scholarship schools, it can be even harder getting a good read on what they are thinking for sure regarding baseball.
Really good advice here. 2013 has had a few visits to strong DIIIs in our area in the past few weeks. In each case there were a couple of tough questions that he needed to ask, particularly about the JV squad and - honestly - where do you see me? We explained to him that these questions are not new to the coach and he knows he has a JV roster/schedule, so he will either get in front of the question or expect you to ask it.
This is a good topic to revisit every year especailly at this time and a lot of good stuff.
With reading the Ask About Colleges, it is good to see that people are asking about programs other than D1. That indicates to me that folks and their players are doing their homework.
I can understand why most consider the D1 opportunity over others, there is more exposure in print, on TV. This site has done a great job over the years of breaking down each division, NAIA and JUCO.
Great posts by PG and Rich, especially the fit for all three areas, academic, athletic and social. And great points by jemaz as well, always keep in mind that competition exists everywhere, no matter what type of program that you are headed for, you must always compete for your position.
Good job everyone!
With reading the Ask About Colleges, it is good to see that people are asking about programs other than D1. That indicates to me that folks and their players are doing their homework.
I can understand why most consider the D1 opportunity over others, there is more exposure in print, on TV. This site has done a great job over the years of breaking down each division, NAIA and JUCO.
Great posts by PG and Rich, especially the fit for all three areas, academic, athletic and social. And great points by jemaz as well, always keep in mind that competition exists everywhere, no matter what type of program that you are headed for, you must always compete for your position.
Good job everyone!
Very good topic CD!
The information that is shared on this message board via posts and private messages have been so helpful to our family.
As Shortnquick mentioned, this process is not totally understood by freshman and sophomore families. The vast majority of players will not be sitting down with coaches and making visits until the summer before senior year and the fall of senior year. This is when the serious conversations happen with coaches and the $$ gets real.
Best thing we did was search this site to learn as much as we could about the different schools and contact posters who could possibly provide more info.
Thank you all for sharing!
The information that is shared on this message board via posts and private messages have been so helpful to our family.
As Shortnquick mentioned, this process is not totally understood by freshman and sophomore families. The vast majority of players will not be sitting down with coaches and making visits until the summer before senior year and the fall of senior year. This is when the serious conversations happen with coaches and the $$ gets real.
Best thing we did was search this site to learn as much as we could about the different schools and contact posters who could possibly provide more info.
Thank you all for sharing!
quote:No matter what level of ball, be sure you are going somewhere you are going to be happy for 4 years with or without baseball. Would you be ok there if you have career ending injury on day 1?
I know this is an easy one to typically agree with, however its not the right question for many. Many kids figure out after a year or two of not/hardly playing the school experience is seriously lacking w/o baseball and transfer. i.e. my son went to a very good UC on the beach, didn't play much so he transferred out of the school to a JC and then eventually a school located 4 hours from the nearest beach. He hated the UC because he wasn't playing and believed in himself. Ironically two years earlier he said he wanted to go to that school no matter what happened with baseball. How many kids at that age really know what they want?
D1 or bust or......
There is a fine line between believing in yourself and accepting/rejecting other's evaluation of your skills. I am reluctant to tell a kid he isn't D1 if that's his dream but no school is talking to him etc.., there are other choices such as a JC to give him the opportunity to develop and show what he can do. No different then a kid that wants to be an engineer.
D1 or bust?..that's fine..as long as you could be o.k. with the "bust" part.
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
Just something to consider...
There are many different levels of Juco baseball. There are some that are loaded with DI caliber talent. It's not unusual to see certain Juco programs produce more MLB draft picks than nearly all the DI schools.
I only mention this so people understand how competitive it can be to get lots of playing time at certain programs. And I do think it is important that players continue to develop. So it's important that you find the place you are most likely to have a chance to be in the lineup. That is if playing time is important to you.
I always believe in shooting for the moon, but you need to have what it takes. Listen very carefully to those recruiting you. They're the ones who control the future. They're the ones that place importance on you as a player in their program. Do they say you have a chance to play here right away as a freshman? Do they say you're likely to be a red shirt the first year? Do they say you might start by your junior year? Most importantly, are they going to invest a lot in you?
They, the recruiters, see you a certain way. Immediate impact player, immediate starter, immediate contributer, possible player, gamble, etc.
Often the scholarship offer clears all that up at the scholarship schools. They usually won't invest more than 25% on a possibility or gamble.
At the DIII and other non-scholarship schools, it can be even harder getting a good read on what they are thinking for sure regarding baseball. There are schools that have enrollment quotas that need to be reached by their athletic programs. That is more important than a successful athletic program, though they sometimes go hand in hand. Sure they want good players, but they have to reach quotas for student enrollment purposes. Let's face it, there are a very large number of small colleges that will welcome you to their baseball program as long as you qualify for admittance. It is true that a large number of players never see the field even at the DIII level.
For those that say find a place you would still be happy if you took away baseball… I say that is very good advice! However, I know of many that could never be happy if they took away baseball. They would much rather be at a place they didn’t like playing baseball than at a place they liked with no baseball.
Which one are you? Nothing wrong either way!
PG, do you have a recommendation for those who want to go the D3 route, and/or believe that that is the best baseball fit? Is it reasonable to believe that a coach will be honest about where he believes a player will fit, or is this naive?
I suspect folks would appreciate a list of the large number of colleges where anyone can make they team. They can save thousands of dollars on expensive showcases and travel teams.
quote:Originally posted by twotex:quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
Just something to consider...
There are many different levels of Juco baseball. There are some that are loaded with DI caliber talent. It's not unusual to see certain Juco programs produce more MLB draft picks than nearly all the DI schools.
I only mention this so people understand how competitive it can be to get lots of playing time at certain programs. And I do think it is important that players continue to develop. So it's important that you find the place you are most likely to have a chance to be in the lineup. That is if playing time is important to you.
I always believe in shooting for the moon, but you need to have what it takes. Listen very carefully to those recruiting you. They're the ones who control the future. They're the ones that place importance on you as a player in their program. Do they say you have a chance to play here right away as a freshman? Do they say you're likely to be a red shirt the first year? Do they say you might start by your junior year? Most importantly, are they going to invest a lot in you?
They, the recruiters, see you a certain way. Immediate impact player, immediate starter, immediate contributer, possible player, gamble, etc.
Often the scholarship offer clears all that up at the scholarship schools. They usually won't invest more than 25% on a possibility or gamble.
At the DIII and other non-scholarship schools, it can be even harder getting a good read on what they are thinking for sure regarding baseball. There are schools that have enrollment quotas that need to be reached by their athletic programs. That is more important than a successful athletic program, though they sometimes go hand in hand. Sure they want good players, but they have to reach quotas for student enrollment purposes. Let's face it, there are a very large number of small colleges that will welcome you to their baseball program as long as you qualify for admittance. It is true that a large number of players never see the field even at the DIII level.
For those that say find a place you would still be happy if you took away baseball… I say that is very good advice! However, I know of many that could never be happy if they took away baseball. They would much rather be at a place they didn’t like playing baseball than at a place they liked with no baseball.
Which one are you? Nothing wrong either way!
PG, do you have a recommendation for those who want to go the D3 route, and/or believe that that it is the best baseball fit? Is it reasonable to believe that a coach will be honest about where he believes a player will fit, or is this naive?
I suspect folks would appreciate a list of the large number of colleges where anyone can make they team. They can save thousands of dollars on expensive showcases and travel teams.
"D1 or bust" is a failed strategy for most. If you love the game, and want to keep playing for as long as your talent will allow....why would you limit your choices? It makes no logical sense.
Every player should strive to play at the highest level possible, with reality mixed in somewhere. The D1 or bust "problem" comes in when a player stretches to reach the higher levels. Accepting minimum scholarships or recruited walk on status can be a sign that one is stretching. Just go in with your eyes open that competition for playing time is very, very stiff.
Some players, like CD's son, can thrive in the competitive environment but most may not get the playing time they want or expect. Then the "or bust" becomes "anywhere I can get playing time."
If baseball is most important go where you think you have your best shot at playing right away. If school comes first try stretching but realize you might have to sit more than you're used to.
Some players, like CD's son, can thrive in the competitive environment but most may not get the playing time they want or expect. Then the "or bust" becomes "anywhere I can get playing time."
If baseball is most important go where you think you have your best shot at playing right away. If school comes first try stretching but realize you might have to sit more than you're used to.
quote:PG, do you have a recommendation for those who want to go the D3 route, and/or believe that that it is the best baseball fit? Is it reasonable to believe that a coach will be honest about where he believes a player will fit, or is this naive?
I suspect folks would appreciate a list of the large number of colleges where anyone can make they team. They can save thousands of dollars on expensive showcases and travel teams.
I don't feel comfortable naming these schools and I wouldn't know all of them anyway.
Even at these schools they will play their best players so there is no guarantees anywhere. The difference is that many colleges will have baseball players coming in every year that the coach knows nothing about as a player. Recruiting services know this, it's easy to get a kid into college. The hard part is getting an athletic scholarship. Please don't think that this includes all non-scholarship colleges. There are many that work hard recruiting the best possible players.
People can try an experiment if they want. Take a DIII college you have never heard about. Check how they have done over the past few years. If they're not a winning program, send a message to the coach saying your academics definitely qualify you for admittance and you are a baseball player. See what happens.
I once talked to a small college coach and asked him how his team looked for next year. One of the things he mentioned was he had some players coming in that he knew nothing about.
Bottom line, there are divisions within the divisions. All of DIII is not the same. At the top it is very good. I would even go so far to say that the top half is very competitive. The rest is still great because it's still baseball. Even then, just like everywhere, once you get there (which isn't all that difficult if you can afford the college), you still need to be good enough to play.
Many schools that need to reach certain enrollment numbers, love to hear there is a baseball player interested in attending their college. In fact, if you're experimenting... skip the coach and go straight to admissions mentioning you want to play baseball. I think you will be surprised by the interest they will show. Obviously your academic record will usually be important. Remember this won't work so well if you are contacting the higher level baseball colleges.
The above is the reason that some say... Anyone with a little ability and a lot of desire can find a place to play college baseball. That doesn't mean that "everyone" can play college baseball. Once you get there, you can't hide.