D1 Roster Size

This answer is just from my limited knowledge of my son going thru 2 seasons already @ a D1 school.  The number is 35 in Season. Right now some Rosters have up to 44 players listed. This could include the non-scholarship kids asked to walk on or JUCO transfers.  Not sure that many realize "Fall Ball" @ a D1 school is basically a try-out if you will.  The culmination of Fall Ball is usually the week of Intra-Squad games the team holds to showcase next Springs' players and Coach has some really hard decisions to make  mid-October.   Coach may cut some players here, may cut a few more in late Nov. so kids can make plans & transfer out @semester break. The official Roster is not published till right before the first game of the season in February.  Then you have have to work like hell to make the League Travel Roster of 27 !  Most colleges complete Spring semester end of April. Baseball season runs thru May & if you have what it takes  "the Road to Omaha " thru June.  Coach's budget is responsible for meals & housing for his entire team @this point.  Some players have their exit interview this 1st week of May and go home to plan B for next year.  Some players get sent to report for their Summer Collegiate Wood Bat team.  The team shrinks again, in our case, down to 22 for the last month.   Who Knew ? ! ?

Im going to caution anyone trolling rosters right now trying to determine if this team or that will need a RF or SS a year from now.  So much changes & happens every 3-4 months on a College baseball team:  Injury, Academic Ineligibility, DUI over Christmas Break, Cut from team for skipping Class ...on & on.   And you never know who is in the wings, not on the Roster this year,  a D1 transfer sitting out, a Pitcher recovering from TJ surgery there could be 3-4 upperclassmen returning in the fall not listed on prior Spring Roster.

Control what you can, be the best that you can be Academically & Athletically and everything will fall into place.  Do not look for more distractions in the process, you will never have all the answers.   A lot happens in a year or two............or not, just saying.

This is interesting...thanks for sharing.  Does this also have to do with scholarships?  I have heard that scholarships are renewed annually.  So if you do not have an athletic scholarship, your spot on the team could be in jeopardy?    My son would not go D1, I am just asking out of curiosity. Does this apply to only the top D1 schools?  Do smaller D1 schools do this same thing?  How about mid level D3 schools?

There are no roster limits in D3. I scrubbed several years of rosters for each team that my son had on his list. Not so much for size, but to see how much turn over there was from year to year. I wanted to see how many players were on the roster four four years. 

If there was a lot of turn over it was a red flag. Only one school that he was interested had a lot of turn over. But it was low on his list.

Do D3 schools have a "tryout" in the fall?  Do they cut kids?  How do you ask this question to the coach and make sure you are getting an upfront answer?    We did meet with 1 D3 coach and ask if all the players travel and he said yes, they do unless they are academically inelig. or they did something else wrong - miss practice, etc.

RKBH posted:

This is interesting...thanks for sharing.  Does this also have to do with scholarships?  I have heard that scholarships are renewed annually.  So if you do not have an athletic scholarship, your spot on the team could be in jeopardy?    My son would not go D1, I am just asking out of curiosity. Does this apply to only the top D1 schools?  Do smaller D1 schools do this same thing?  How about mid level D3 schools?

Losing a roster spot is about talent, potential and productivity. A player with or without a scholarship may be cut. Some conferences now have the opportunity to provide four year scholarships. But a kid at a major D1 comes in thinking he's a pro prospect of some level. If he's cut from the team he doesn't want to stay just because of his scholarship (which is likely 25%). He's going to transfer freeing up his scholarship.

RKBH posted:

Do D3 schools have a "tryout" in the fall?  Do they cut kids?  How do you ask this question to the coach and make sure you are getting an upfront answer?    We did meet with 1 D3 coach and ask if all the players travel and he said yes, they do unless they are academically inelig. or they did something else wrong - miss practice, etc.

D3's have preferred recruits. They're the kids the coach walks through their applications. A friend's son was a preferred recruit at a Top 25. In the fall 27 pitchers showed up thinking they were preferred walk ons. They were sweet talked by the coach. The problem a lot of recruits and their parents have is selective hearing. They hear what they want rather than everything they should. This D3 coach wanted a 32 man roster. Three of those twenty-seven pitchers made the team.

But even if the D3 has an unlimited roster who wants to hang around year after year to be player #40?

If something happens for my son, I will be sure to pay attention to what the coach says.  If you want to PM me, I would love to know the name of that school where the coach sweet talked the player.  We have already been disappointed with 1 D3 and I am sure there is more to come.    I agree on not hanging around to be player #40.    Another question - what if a kid goes to a D3 but for his Freshman year does not play baseball and works hard, gets bigger, etc and then decides he would like to attempt to get on the team.  Do the coaches have tryouts for these kids in the fall of sophomore year?

RKBH posted:

Do D3 schools have a "tryout" in the fall?  Do they cut kids?  How do you ask this question to the coach and make sure you are getting an upfront answer?    We did meet with 1 D3 coach and ask if all the players travel and he said yes, they do unless they are academically inelig. or they did something else wrong - miss practice, etc.

Yes D3 schools have try outs. Yes D3's cut kids.  Some D3 will have 60 or more guys show up for fall tryouts.  1/3 or more might be cut.  Even though there are no roster limits, it is unlikely that a D3 will take all comers. There are only so many practice reps to go around.  Plus some guys who show up for tryouts just won't be ready  for college level competition or the rigors of college sports. 

Roster sizes vary a lot with D3's.  Some of the variance has to do with whether the school fields a JV team or not.  I've seen D3's that carry as many as 50 players total between Varsity and JV.   I've also seen D3 that have fewer than 30 guys in the program. 

You are  less  likely to be cut if you have been (heavily) recruited.  But at D3's, since there are no athletic scholarships, every player is,  in effect, a walk on.  The best players will make the team and play, whether "recruited" or not.  Of course if you have been heavily recruited the coach has spent  time on you, getting to know your skills and make up, so you start with a leg up.  But you still have to show up in the fall ready to compete.

you should be direct and to the point (but respectful and polite) with coaches.  Ask pointed questions They will not necessarily be direct with you, unless you basically ask direct questions.    And you should listen for things you don't want to hear, as well as for things you do want to hear. 

So, would it be safe to say that my son should stop going to these camps and just practice, work out, get bigger and stronger (since he will be a young 2017 graduate)...and then just try out for the team when he gets to campus at a D3?   If he does not make it, no harm done, but to go to college thinking you are playing baseball and then to be cut would be difficult to handle.

RKBH posted:

So, would it be safe to say that my son should stop going to these camps and just practice, work out, get bigger and stronger (since he will be a young 2017 graduate)...and then just try out for the team when he gets to campus at a D3?   If he does not make it, no harm done, but to go to college thinking you are playing baseball and then to be cut would be difficult to handle.

 

I wouldn't conclude that.  Being recruited is a definite leg up. The more the coach has seen you the better.  Plus being recruited -- especially if you are a prime recruit -- can help you to get admitted in the first place. If the coach likes you and wants you, he'll ask you to apply ED. He may use some of his chips to get you admitted.  The real point is that you STILL have to do your part by showing up ready to compete.  The competition will be lstiff if it is a quality D3 program. But it is also true that D3's vary a LOT in their level of competitiveness. 

RKBH posted:

If something happens for my son, I will be sure to pay attention to what the coach says.  If you want to PM me, I would love to know the name of that school where the coach sweet talked the player.  We have already been disappointed with 1 D3 and I am sure there is more to come.    I agree on not hanging around to be player #40.    Another question - what if a kid goes to a D3 but for his Freshman year does not play baseball and works hard, gets bigger, etc and then decides he would like to attempt to get on the team.  Do the coaches have tryouts for these kids in the fall of sophomore year?

Maybe I used the wrong words. All coaches sweet talk a prospect they have interest in. The coach will explain what he believes to be the players upside. He explains where he feels the player could fit in. It's not like he's telling kids they have roster spots. The coach will tell they player what happens when he gets to campus. But the player and his parents often only hear the upside and how the player potentially fits in. 

The player then thinks to himself, hey I was all conference and this is only a D3. I'll be the guy the coach selects for the team. Then the kid shows up in the fall and sees twenty-seven more just like him. Now it's down to preparedness and mental toughness.

i had this conversation with a friend today about their daughter. She was recruited to play basketball at an ACC. She quit the program and left school after two years. The dad said despite being a high school and AAU stud she freaked out when she got to school and saw fifteen more just like her. She was intimidated and collapsed as a player. She assumed since her competition was from bigger, more competitive states they were better players. She had already proved on the AAU circuit it wasn't the case.

What I don't know is if the kid and the parents saw all roses and rainbows when she was recruited. The parents weren't athletes. Neither was their son. Some people get awed by interest big programs without understanding what's involved when the kid arrives.

D3 and D2 coaches will redshirt a player if they want them to get bigger and stronger, chances are pretty slim a D1 coach will do the same due to roster limits. Freshman players who have signed an NLI more than likely will not be asked to leave due to NCAA rules. Also NCAA requires an open tryout every fall for anyone.  Not sure if this pertains to all divisions.

Most returning players have a fairly good idea where they might fit in due to their past performance and end of year  meeting.  

Most of what journey on describes is fairly accurate that occurs at a D1 program.

TPM posted:

D3 and D2 coaches will redshirt a player if they want them to get bigger and stronger, chances are pretty slim a D1 coach will do the same due to roster limits. Freshman players who have signed an NLI more than likely will not be asked to leave due to NCAA rules. Also NCAA requires an open tryout every fall for anyone.  Not sure if this pertains to all divisions.

Most returning players have a fairly good idea where they might fit in due to their past performance and end of year  meeting.  

Most of what journey on describes is fairly accurate that occurs at a D1 program.

can't redshirt at the D3 level anymore except for medical reasons.   Cheap state university D3's used to use redshirting a lot to stockpile talent.  Players were unwilling to redshirt, though, at very expensive private D3's.  The expensive private D3's banded together to get redshirting banned, except for medical reasons, to help balance the playing field.    This was explained to us on the recruiting trail. 

SluggerDad posted:

TPM posted:

D3 and D2 coaches will redshirt a player if they want them to get bigger and stronger, chances are pretty slim a D1 coach will do the same due to roster limits. Freshman players who have signed an NLI more than likely will not be asked to leave due to NCAA rules. Also NCAA requires an open tryout every fall for anyone.  Not sure if this pertains to all divisions.

Most returning players have a fairly good idea where they might fit in due to their past performance and end of year  meeting.  

Most of what journey on describes is fairly accurate that occurs at a D1 program.

can't redshirt at the D3 level anymore except for medical reasons.   Cheap state university D3's used to use redshirting a lot to stockpile talent.  Players were unwilling to redshirt, though, at very expensive private D3's.  The expensive private D3's banded together to get redshirting banned, except for medical reasons, to help balance the playing field.    This was explained to us on the recruiting trail. 

Thanks.  D1 the same.  Medical waiver only due to injury and thats not always the case either. Coaches just cant afford to give out 5 year scholarships anymore.  

An NAIA school near me has 85-90 kids come in in the fall.  Their practices look more like football with so many kids out there

SluggerDad posted:

TPM posted:

D3 and D2 coaches will redshirt a player if they want them to get bigger and stronger, chances are pretty slim a D1 coach will do the same due to roster limits. Freshman players who have signed an NLI more than likely will not be asked to leave due to NCAA rules. Also NCAA requires an open tryout every fall for anyone.  Not sure if this pertains to all divisions.

Most returning players have a fairly good idea where they might fit in due to their past performance and end of year  meeting.  

Most of what journey on describes is fairly accurate that occurs at a D1 program.

can't redshirt at the D3 level anymore except for medical reasons.   Cheap state university D3's used to use redshirting a lot to stockpile talent.  Players were unwilling to redshirt, though, at very expensive private D3's.  The expensive private D3's banded together to get redshirting banned, except for medical reasons, to help balance the playing field.    This was explained to us on the recruiting trail. 

Just to keep terminology straight:

Redshirt isn't a term the NCAA uses in its handbook, and it's used informally in various ways to describe different situations.

The NCAA gives athletes five years to play four seasons.

If an athlete doesn't play at all in a given season--regardless of whether it's because of injury, ineligibility, sitting out a "year in residence" after a transfer, or just not being good enough--people will call that year a redshirt year.

When we speak of a school "giving" a player a redshirt year, it usually refers to a) a player who was injured early in the year being granted a medical hardship so that the games he played early in the season don't count as one of the four seasons of eligibility or b) a school deliberately not playing someone they have plans for in future years so that the player will have the benefit of an extra year of practice and conditioning.

As TPM said, roster and scholarship limits have made the second variety almost non-existent in D1. 

Sometimes D1 schools will pay a scholarship for the "redshirt" year of an incoming transfer student who is required to sit out a year. This situation seems most likely to occur when someone moves from a major conference school to a lower tier school within D1.

There are lots of players who for one reason or another don't find their way on to the field in a given year who call themselves redshirts, but it's not a status that means anything to their coaches or to the NCAA. It just means they used a year of the five year clock without using one of their four seasons of eligibility.

To add to swampboys post. D1 uses years. D3 uses semesters. I am not sure if it makes a differnce.

Swampboy posted:

Just to keep terminology straight:

Redshirt isn't a term the NCAA uses in its handbook, and it's used informally in various ways to describe different situations.

The NCAA gives athletes five years to play four seasons.

...... b) a school deliberately not playing someone they have plans for in future years so that the player will have the benefit of an extra year of practice and conditioning.

This, as I understand it, can't happen at D3, at least not " with the team." If you practice "with the team"   (after nontraditional season)  then even if you never play in a game,  you burn a year of eligibility.    

SluggerDad posted:

 

Swampboy posted:

Just to keep terminology straight:

Redshirt isn't a term the NCAA uses in its handbook, and it's used informally in various ways to describe different situations.

The NCAA gives athletes five years to play four seasons.

...... b) a school deliberately not playing someone they have plans for in future years so that the player will have the benefit of an extra year of practice and conditioning.

This, as I understand it, can't happen at D3, at least not " with the team." If you practice "with the team"   (after nontraditional season)  then even if you never play in a game,  you burn a year of eligibility.    

Right.

My comment refers to D1.

D3 has a couple differences. Instead of the 5-year clock, the have the 10-semester/15-quarter rule. And they count participation more strictly, charging athletes for a season if they make the team and practice after the championship season starts, as you describe.

SluggerDad posted:

 

Swampboy posted:

Just to keep terminology straight:

Redshirt isn't a term the NCAA uses in its handbook, and it's used informally in various ways to describe different situations.

The NCAA gives athletes five years to play four seasons.

...... b) a school deliberately not playing someone they have plans for in future years so that the player will have the benefit of an extra year of practice and conditioning.

This, as I understand it, can't happen at D3, at least not " with the team." If you practice "with the team"   (after nontraditional season)  then even if you never play in a game,  you burn a year of eligibility.    

It's actually tied to the start of the traditional season. Players can practice with the team right up until the first game in the spring.

"14.2.4.1 Minimum Amount of Participation. A season of intercollegiate participation shall be counted in the student-athlete’s sport when a student-athlete participates (practices or competes) during or after the first contest in the traditional segment following the student-athlete’s initial participation of that academic year at that institution or when the student-athlete engages in intercollegiate competition during the nontraditional segment in that sport. This provision is applicable to intercollegiate athletics participation (practice or competition) conducted by a Division III collegiate institution at the varsity, junior varsity or freshman team level."

Red-shirting in D3 makes even less sense because of this rule. The player doesn't even get the benefit of practicing with the team during the spring. Unless recovering from some kind of non-qualifying injury, the coach is basically telling you to try again next year.

Thing is there are some guys at D3 who burn a roster year basically doing nothing but practicing.  They maybe get to suit up for home games but never play and don't travel.  For example a number of bios for some pitchers  at my son's school who were rostered on the varsity for the year read "saw no game action" in the 2016 season.  

Plus as the rule makes clear Freshman or JV team membership burns a year -- even if, as at my son's school -- the JV squad is kept pretty much separate from the varsity squad.