D2 Roster Size

A friend’s son went to a HA D3 with a ranked baseball program. D3’s can have unlimited roster size. They only rostered 32. The coach typically had six recruiting slots for preferential academic acceptance. Over 50 players showed up for fall ball each year. Many thought they were preferred walk ons encouraged by the coach to give it a shot.

The only way to gain accurate  knowledge about programs is to talk to people whose kids play(ed) there.** Then you have to make sure the parent isn’t bitter because their kid isn’t playing. Go to games. Ask, “How did your son end up choosing ABC College?” Then shut up and listen. What they tell you will open up the opportunity for follow up questions. If they don’t tell you what you’re looking for chances are the conversation will open up the opportunity to ask specific questions.

** Doesn't necessarily apply to visible D1 programs

@Francis7 posted:

I've read that there is no limit on roster size for D2 baseball teams. There is a thread here that says some may carry 50 to 60 players.

There is a close by D2 and I looked at their online rosters for the last six years or so. And, they list between 34 and 36 players each year.

Would you take that as a sign that the school isn't one that will take a ton of kids just for the sake of having a huge roster?

D2 has no roster limit and gives 9 scholarships. However, many D2 programs have JV teams, with their own staff.

@Francis7 posted:

I've read that there is no limit on roster size for D2 baseball teams. There is a thread here that says some may carry 50 to 60 players.

There is a close by D2 and I looked at their online rosters for the last six years or so. And, they list between 34 and 36 players each year.

Would you take that as a sign that the school isn't one that will take a ton of kids just for the sake of having a huge roster?

Son played for an out-of-state D2 after JuCo in 2015.  They've since dropped the baseball program.    The coach typically carried about 30 players on the roster.   At the time they were fully funded for 9 scholarships.   Son was offered a very nice package (athletic scholarship and grants) that reduced COA to about what an in-state player would pay.   About 1/3 of the roster were JuCo transfers.   Only 4 players were out-of-state.   As I recall, all the out-of-state players were on athletic scholarship.

Thanks everyone.

Follow up question based on what has been shared here so far. 

If you were a mid major D1 talent level player and were considering a D2 because (1) academically it was probably a better school for you in terms of size and acceptance rate, (2) it was closer to home, (3) you probably would play sooner there as opposed to probably sitting as a freshman at D1 and (4) it was a D2 with a current 10 year history of being a very strong baseball program (with some graduates going on to play professionally), would you only go there if they offered you a share of one of their 9 scholarships (meaning that would be a sign that you wouldn't be on JV or just a player who never suits up)?

Francis7,

My son was the recruiting and pitching coach for an in state D2 in FL. It was a private college, annual costs about 50k a year, but most students get academic and financial aid. If I remember correctly, the scholarships awarded were for specific players that did not meet academic or financial aid requirements.

I checked the roster and there are 39 players. The one thing that I noticed was that very many came from JUCO and some from big programs like Stanford, Mississippi State, Florida just to name a few. That's very typical here in Florida for many D2 programs.

You are asking a lot of  personal questions that only the player and his family can figure out,  but I can tell you that FL Southern plays great baseball and yes, players get drafted.

@Francis7 posted:

Thanks everyone.

Follow up question based on what has been shared here so far. 

If you were a mid major D1 talent level player and were considering a D2 because (1) academically it was probably a better school for you in terms of size and acceptance rate, (2) it was closer to home, (3) you probably would play sooner there as opposed to probably sitting as a freshman at D1 and (4) it was a D2 with a current 10 year history of being a very strong baseball program (with some graduates going on to play professionally), would you only go there if they offered you a share of one of their 9 scholarships (meaning that would be a sign that you wouldn't be on JV or just a player who never suits up)?

To your first question, you need to look at a lot more than roster size.  How many do they bring in for Fall?  How heavily do they rely on JC and dropdowns?  How many incoming freshmen do they pipeline to a local JC come fall?  How many typically get redshirt/greyshirted, etc.  More importantly, how, where and when does the particular player fit?  How does the school fit outside of baseball?  You say this is a D2 close to you.  Based on your previous persistent questions, I can't imagine you don't know more about this school than to rely heavily on roster count.  Now, you may be able to extract more relevant info from roster makeup as you and/or your son likely know some of the players from your region and their talent level as compared to how much they have played and contributed.  And, maybe most important - what does the direct dialog between your son and the HC and RC tell you and him about where he fits?

To your second question, there is often overlap with mid-major D1's and "very strong" D2's.  I would suggest you remove the label from consideration in this instance.  There is something that strikes me as a bit odd with the logic in your question... you say the player would probably play sooner but then you equate getting baseball $ as a sign the player won't be on JV or never suit up.  If it were a scenario where there were two schools recruiting him from far away that only saw him a few times, I could understand that.  But with a local target, the player should know the school and coaches and the school coaches should know the player.  There should be ample opportunity for meaningful dialog.  Do you know the player will play sooner or not?  What D1 school are you comparing to?  If there isn't strong expectation that the player will not be on the JV squad, you are likely fishing in the wrong pond.  Pretty much the same goes for "never suits up".  Yes, you want baseball money commitment as affirmation of their commitment but that isn't always in the cards.  There are plenty of good D2's that have less than the full 9 scholy's and so any athletic $ offered is negligable, particularly for position players.  Even with nine, that is not much to spread around to 30+ players.  Yet, coaches can express in other ways their sincerity of commitment and belief in a player.  That is an important piece that you should be looking for.  Son got no money from a D2 but got every opportunity to play and contribute.  Yes, he had to earn it, just as those receiving baseball money did.  He pretty much knew each step of the way where he stood and what effort and performance level it would take to continue earning those opportunities.

Blanket statements can make things easy to compartmentalize but as TPM stated, each situation really has to be evaluated individually.

@Francis7 posted:

Thanks everyone.

Follow up question based on what has been shared here so far. 

If you were a mid major D1 talent level player and were considering a D2 because (1) academically it was probably a better school for you in terms of size and acceptance rate, (2) it was closer to home, (3) you probably would play sooner there as opposed to probably sitting as a freshman at D1 and (4) it was a D2 with a current 10 year history of being a very strong baseball program (with some graduates going on to play professionally), would you only go there if they offered you a share of one of their 9 scholarships (meaning that would be a sign that you wouldn't be on JV or just a player who never suits up)?

I'd choose the best fit. What you posted are all questions that go into determining the right fit. Academics, proximity to home, size, baseball quality, and especially money are all factors that families need to consider before letting their kid decide if it's where he wants to go to school. 

Also, don't stress over acceptance rates right now. Traditional acceptance rates do not apply to athletes. Do coaches prefer better students? Yes. Can coaches push guys thru admissions who would not have been accepted if they didn't play baseball? Also yes. They also aren't likely to offer a kid who isn't likely to be accepted. You cross that bridge when you get to it

Francis, just for perspective the good teams in the D2 conference TPM’s son coached would pound the crap out of any MAAC D1. If a D2 is placing players in the pros they’re as good as a lot of mid Major D1’s.

i remember one year almost every player getting on the field at Tampa had transferred down from the SEC and ACC. Some D2’s provide the player of maintaining pro scout visibility without sitting out a year when transferring. 

A ranked D2 isn’t an easier road than a lower D1. While non major conference teams tend to be called mid majors there are really three levels. Major conference, competitive mid major and the rest of D1.

I was watching my son's friends (college freshmen) at five different D2s this year, they were all listed on the spring rosters.  One roster had around 30 (private school), and the freshman was playing.  One had just under 40 on the roster (fall and spring), freshmen didn't play very much, but were getting some opportunities.  Two rosters listed over 50 in the spring, one of those freshmen pitched 1 inning (in 15 games), the other had not played.  The last one had over 40 in the fall and spring, son's friend did not seem to be playing.  I don't know the individual circumstances of any of these players, nor how much money they got, but the difference in roster numbers was striking, and was publicly available.

For both D2s and mid-major D1s, what's noticeable is not just how many JUCO transfers they have, but how few non-transfer juniors and seniors they have, and whether those guys get playing time. That's also pretty easy to check.  In some cases the school will roster 14 freshmen but only 2 seniors who were not transfers.

@RJM posted:

Francis, just for perspective the good teams in the D2 conference TPM’s son coached would pound the crap out of any MAAC D1. If a D2 is placing players in the pros they’re as good as a lot of mid Major D1’s.

i remember one year almost every player getting on the field at Tampa had transferred down from the SEC and ACC. Some D2’s provide the player of maintaining pro scout visibility without sitting out a year when transferring. 

A ranked D2 isn’t an easier road than a lower D1. While non major conference teams tend to be called mid majors there are really three levels. Major conference, competitive mid major and the rest of D1.

RJM, that's true but not all the schools in that conference are like Tampa. This year Tampa had 33 on their roster and 13 were not transfers.  The coaching staff is the best around and could definetly beat many FL D1 programs.

The strength of D2 is offense.  My opinion is that a position player, or any type of player should never think that they have to settle by going to a D2.

Red Sox J.D.Martinez attended Nova Southeastern as did Mike Fiers. 

@cabbagedad posted:

To your first question, you need to look at a lot more than roster size.  How many do they bring in for Fall?  How heavily do they rely on JC and dropdowns?  How many incoming freshmen do they pipeline to a local JC come fall?  How many typically get redshirt/greyshirted, etc.  More importantly, how, where and when does the particular player fit?  How does the school fit outside of baseball?  You say this is a D2 close to you.  Based on your previous persistent questions, I can't imagine you don't know more about this school than to rely heavily on roster count.  Now, you may be able to extract more relevant info from roster makeup as you and/or your son likely know some of the players from your region and their talent level as compared to how much they have played and contributed.  And, maybe most important - what does the direct dialog between your son and the HC and RC tell you and him about where he fits?

To your second question, there is often overlap with mid-major D1's and "very strong" D2's.  I would suggest you remove the label from consideration in this instance.  There is something that strikes me as a bit odd with the logic in your question... you say the player would probably play sooner but then you equate getting baseball $ as a sign the player won't be on JV or never suit up.  If it were a scenario where there were two schools recruiting him from far away that only saw him a few times, I could understand that.  But with a local target, the player should know the school and coaches and the school coaches should know the player.  There should be ample opportunity for meaningful dialog.  Do you know the player will play sooner or not?  What D1 school are you comparing to?  If there isn't strong expectation that the player will not be on the JV squad, you are likely fishing in the wrong pond.  Pretty much the same goes for "never suits up".  Yes, you want baseball money commitment as affirmation of their commitment but that isn't always in the cards.  There are plenty of good D2's that have less than the full 9 scholy's and so any athletic $ offered is negligable, particularly for position players.  Even with nine, that is not much to spread around to 30+ players.  Yet, coaches can express in other ways their sincerity of commitment and belief in a player.  That is an important piece that you should be looking for.  Son got no money from a D2 but got every opportunity to play and contribute.  Yes, he had to earn it, just as those receiving baseball money did.  He pretty much knew each step of the way where he stood and what effort and performance level it would take to continue earning those opportunities.

Blanket statements can make things easy to compartmentalize but as TPM stated, each situation really has to be evaluated individually.

 

Just to add on to  @cabbagedad point, a quick 2020 review of the Sunshine State Conference teams

Overall means total No. of Transfer

JUCO  means total No of JUCO

Please note, we are doing an internal reconciliation.

Collegebaseballinsights,

I don't think Sunshine State Conference is where the school might be that Francis7 was inquiring about. 

@TPM posted:

Collegebaseballinsights,

I don't think Sunshine State Conference is where the school might be that Francis7 was inquiring about. 

I understand.  I was just providing context to what @cabbagedad was talking about and what Francis7 must consider regardless of the school or conference.

@CollegebaseballInsights posted:

I understand.  I was just providing context to what @cabbagedad was talking about and what Francis7 must consider regardless of the school or conference.

 

Got it. Maybe you can provide the conference info if he is interested. 

Francis - It is all across the board for D2s.  Many D2 programs dont even have the 9 scholarships to use.  Many use large rosters for tuition/enrollment generating purposes, especially private schools in many cases.  There is a private D2 in Texas that has 62 listed on their roster.  I do believe they try and get some JV games in vs. some of the local JUCOs.  My son started out at a D2 in Colorado and they had 45 listed on the roster, with 9 of those "red shirted" with no number assigned so in essence, they carried 35 or 36 active players.  Many D2 schools that we looked at will typically carry between 32-40 kids.  I think the roster history is a great indicator of future roster sizes.  Just know that there still may be 50-60 kids in the fall fighting it out for the spots and then a few D1 drop downs potentially at the winter break.

Many D2 schools that have good programs would regularly beat mid-level D1 programs.  Angelo State, Colorado Mesa, Tampa (and many of the Florida School), UCSD etc all have very strong clubs.  See last published poll for a list of top programs

http://baseballnews.com/colleg...l-div-2-poll-3-9-20/

I don't think that you can just look as a classification and say one is better than the other.  There are many JUCO programs that are primarily D1 drop downs or kids that could have played P5 who want to improve draft stock.  No one size fits all.  It has to be a good fit academically, financially and most obviously baseball wise.   Find a place that your son really likes and most importantly, is getting the love from the  coaches.  I think things will be even murkier now with the extra year of eligibility that everyone has and will just create more pressure to find a good fit.  Good Luck! 

Francis, are you asking about CACC’s or PSAC’s? 

@Francis7 posted:

Thanks everyone.

Follow up question based on what has been shared here so far. 

If you were a mid major D1 talent level player and were considering a D2 because (1) academically it was probably a better school for you in terms of size and acceptance rate, (2) it was closer to home, (3) you probably would play sooner there as opposed to probably sitting as a freshman at D1 and (4) it was a D2 with a current 10 year history of being a very strong baseball program (with some graduates going on to play professionally), would you only go there if they offered you a share of one of their 9 scholarships (meaning that would be a sign that you wouldn't be on JV or just a player who never suits up)?

Absolutely NO, unless it was a full ride and even with that you might need your head checked. And even if full ride that doesn't mean a thing to your status in a 60+ player Fall roster tryout.  Whole freshmen classes (ok 95% is whole enough) often get the opportunity to sit and watch every scrimmage, every intersquad, and every actual game from the stands. You can't compete for a spot as an 18/19 year old freshmen when there are 30 juco transfers brought in, several who are pushing age 24 as a junior. You can't compete if not allowed to compete. D2 is a roster cesspool because coaches cannot possibly deal with 60+ players in a practice and cannot spend time conducting a real competition between 60+ players. They will automatically default to the 24 year old juco transfers.

With 95% certainty you will end up redshirting or on a JV playing intersquads.  Oh and yes, the varsity players not getting play time will have the opportunity to play the actual outside team JV games. Especially the backend pitchers who need innings. The JV squad regulars will get pinch hits and filler innings near the end.

I'll name you 2 places that have over 100 players by the way if you want.

Go D1 any level you can, a specific high academic D2/D3, Juco, or bust. The wild west roster rules of everyday D2 do not favor the young athlete coming in. Unless you just want to settle for playing ball in any shape or form. Then go in wide open and prepared not to be participating or competing to participate.

@RJM posted:

Francis, are you asking about CACC’s or PSAC’s? 

PA.

I haven’t kept up on the PSAC since high school teammates and friends/high school opponents of my son graduated out of the league five years ago. But historically there are several good programs. 

One former travel teammate a year below my son played in the PSAC. He had as good of a swing as anyone I saw at PG. But he didn’t have any other D1 skills other than the bat.