D3 Agreement, Later D1 Offer?

Midlodad,
I do beleive there are no rules.


However...the player should only sign if he feels it is the right fit, not just to sign hoping for something better to come along.

JMO.

Unless there are early decision implications, so long as the player/family are willing to forfeit the deposit made with the DIII, there is nothing to prevent that player from later taking a DI offer. In fact, that is the fact of life at DIII and the very hard reality at that level. People often complain about DIII's overrecruiting. Heck, they don't know who is coming until the first practice in the Fall. From what we know, DI's have absolutely no qualms trying to take a player who has a deposit with a DIII if they see him later and feel he can play.
Again, this leaves out the moral/ethical aspects which I think are very important and shouldn't be excluded.

Infielddad

It seems to me that only the players are held to these moral/ethical aspects.

quote:

It seems to me that only the players are held to these moral/ethical aspects.

That is a terrific point. I do think, however, the DIII coach has some claims on those values.

I know i'm a broken record on this subject,
But I don't believe in backing out of a deal.
Weather they do it are not.

So my advice is don't make the deal if you think you might want to break it if a better deal come's along.
And once you make a deal, Be Happy with your decision.
And don't look back.
No Regret's.
EH

quote:

I know i'm a broken record on this subject,
But I don't believe in backing out of a deal.
Weather they do it are not.

My thoughts exactly EH! Doesn't matter what some coach or some other player or some other parent might do..... I want my son to do the "right" thing!

quote:

It seems to me that only the players are held to these moral/ethical aspects.

A man can only control what he should do...so therefore, I can not set aside the moral/ethical aspect of making a committment knowing I had intentions of dishonoring my word.......

It is a difficult situation to be in, but I would advise patience and honesty...

Just my .$02...

quote:

It is a difficult situation to be in, but I would advise patience and honesty...

Parent's this is the word of the day. Patience.

I know exactly what your going thru.
As does alot of poster's.
Don't give up.
The player need's to make a decision on there term's.
And be happy with there decision. EH

quote:

It seems to me that only the players are held to these moral/ethical aspects.

If only you all knew how many players (with the help and encouragement of their parent(s)) make 'commitments' to schools outside of the NLI program but then change their minds. Student-athletes and their parents do not corner the market on ethics.

Character counts. In this day and age, it is too easy to justify why someone lets their moral or ethical standards slip. If you want to find a reason to do so, it isn't all that hard to do.

On the other hand, people notice good character in the end, I truly believe that. If you accept an opportunity to attend a school that is a good fit, do so with no reservations and don't look back. If you want the deal with the bigger school all along, you should demonstrate some character and advise the D3 coach of your desire and wait to see if it'll come together. Chances are, if you're that good and don't get a deal with a bigger program, the D3 will probably still have a place for you...if you're that good.

D3 vs D1 program...

If the player has the opportunity to play at the D1 school I might wait if all other factors outside of baseball are even or lean towards the D1 school.

The reason isn't so the player can say he signed with a D1 but based on what I've read on the site it seems that D-3's have very large "recruiting classes" (I use that term knowing that they don't have scholly money though they do arrange for academic money) due to the fact they don't have scholly's and many have full tryouts in the Fall. If ur Son draws interest from a D-1 that offers him money I would think that it would be more of a sure footing.

Granted many D-1's over recruit and there are no gtd's but IMO if the D-1 doesn't recruit him, I think that a D-3 would still be interested in him and he would still have the same chance next Fall with the D-3 no matter when he commits to them. (If he can pitch they'll want him or if he's a hitter and can smack it they'll want him)



I realize that I am making a lot of assumptions but if there is hesitation on committing at this point you are best to wait. Also some d-3 schools will want you to do early admission to lock you in limiting your options. I would tell D-3 coach that I am not ready to decide on where I want to get my education and I am still looking at the academics at a number of schools...and I would keep looking. If the D-3 goes away maybe it wasn't meant to be.

OR I could be totally wrong...

quote:

Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
Leaving aside the moral and ethical implications, are there any rules that would prohibit this?

I know that once you sign an NLI you can't break it without sitting out a year. But am I right in thinking that NLI's are for scholarships only? Or is there something comparable with the D3's that would tie the player up once he gave his word?

This is the EXACT dilema my daughter went through. To answer your question; NO, there is no DIII version of an NLI. It's simply a verbal commitment, nothing binding other than integrity.

In our case, we were very open with the 2 DIII's and they fully understood. Both of the DIII schools were >$30k COA, both gave my daughter the max in academic money, both would've still been about $10-$15k out of pocket.

They were competing against a chance to play DI (a goal of hers and they knew who else was recruiting her) and both were competing against a substantially lower out of pocket cost to attend the DI school.

We were honest and open, they waited patiently.

quote:

Again, this leaves out the moral/ethical aspects which I think are very important and shouldn't be excluded.

Having said this, and having been in this situation with our son 3 different times, I am completely on board with Beezer.
For us at least, the way this initially came about was his efforts to get any interest on the DI level and the only interest coming from a DIII coach. That coach consistently reinforced our son was a DI player, he couldn't understand why he was not being recruited, he expected DI's to recruit him at some point, and he was still going to recruit him and wanted him...and had a lot to offer.
Sure enough, at the end of July following his senior year, out comes a DI to watch him play. Goes 3-4 off a player later chosen in the 3rd round of the draft. Can't even get his jock off after the game before he hears the strongest of strong recruiting pitches.
Again, after his sophomore and junior years in college, while playing in a summer wood bat league, multiple DI opportunities were disclosed to him.
For a player who dreamed of playing at the DI level, this was very "heady" stuff. Personally, I think he handled it better than I did.
He never did leave the DIII program that recruited him so hard in the first place. His DIII coach always emphasized the importance of our son doing what was best for him, while trying to reassure that the DIII remained the best.
Personally, I think way to much emphasis can be placed on the player for morals/ethics. The DI coaches had absolutely no qualms recruiting our son knowing, initially, he had deposited at a DIII, and later knowing he attended a DIII. College recruiting is a very inexact "profession." As long as the player handles things with the DIII coach in ways that Beezer describes, I have absolutely no problems with the player forfeiting a deposit and moving to the DI. Not only does the NCAA permit it, the system almost encourages it.

Beezer

You are so right. The DIII my son is looking at is $34k a yr and even with scholarship money that the coach thinks he get him we will still be paying more than we would for an in-state DI school. We have a Virginia Pre-Paid tuition program that we have enrolled in. It's not so much the bragging rights of DI but also the financial part of it for the families.

My son hasn't reached the point where he has committed to the DIII school because he feels it is too early and some DIs may still be out there for him.

quote:

My son hasn't reached the point where he has committed to the DIII school because he feels it is too early and some DIs may still be out there for him.

Does he have good reason to feel this way? Have DI schools been actively contacting him since July? Any offers out there? It's November 9th.

Just as a point of info: my son is mailing his early decision application to a DIII today. The coach requested he do so. It's sort of the DIII version or method of the NLI. My kid also was holding out hope that he'd be recruited at a higher level, and he did get some calls but nothing really to get excited about. The coach he's making his commitment to first contacted him on July 2nd, 3 days after seeing him at a low level PG event. Then he sent his assistant coach to see him at College Select in Binghamton in August. He's been calling to touch base about every other week since. My son has visited campus 3 times and absolutely loves it. Players on the team have told my son it's a great place to play and go to school. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that even if a DI came out of the woodwork at this late(?) time, it would probably be because his recruiting season hasn't gone so well and he's looking to fill holes. Which to me means not really being an impact player. The way things are shaping up with the school my son is committing to, it looks as if he's going to step in an make an immediate impact as a freshman, and that was very important to him. I'm not saying DON'T wait for a DI to call, just make sure you know WHY you're waiting. If you make a DI squad and don't play, how fulfilling is that? One quick story, and everyone has one like this: we had a second basemen in our area a few years back, just an outstanding kid and an outstanding ballplayer. Signed with a Big East school after high school and now he's beginning his junior year. I think I've seen his name in the box scores maybe 4 times during his freshman and soph years. He's getting a good education, but he just doesn't play. It happens. At a DII or DIII I'm sure he'd never come off the field, but that's a choice he made.

PopTime

My son has been called by several DI schools since July. They all call and get his hopes up only to dwindle down as time goes by. He was also hurt this fall. He was being watched by an ACC school just within the last couple of weeks only to find out on this board that there is a catcher that is signing with them today!! That's a great way to find out!

A lot of people on this board have said it's still early. We still need to find out financially what this DIII can offer. Some kids don't mind not playing as much if they can say they were on the Stanford or Carolina baseball teams. I'm not sure where mine stands. He's had coaches all of his HS career building him up telling him that great things are going to happen only to find disappointment. I do know that the DIII would be a perfect fit as far as baseball and degree.

bballmomssr - I'm sorry your son has had such a tough time. It's hard for us parents and even harder for sons to understand that a coach can be courting several players for a position. They have to do that because players are courting several schools. It's too bad to get answers to a question off of a message board though.

If your son is interested in any of the schools that have called him, after this week might be a good time to call. Those schools know what positions they got filled and didn't and perhaps can give your son a better understanding of where he falls in their plans.

I've always been of the mindset, the only offer that matters is the one that's a perfect fit for your son.... sometimes we don't know when that will come or exactly what form it will come in. Just keep an open mind!

bballmomssr - I feel the frustration - but I think there is much to be thankful/hopeful for in your situation....

Please remember that recruiting is not an exact science. Thus, just because the other kid signed at the ACC school that also recruited your son does not necessarily mean that other kid is more talented than your son - it only means that particular coach made that particular decision. The fact your son has been courted by several D1's probably means he is indeed a bonafied D1 player but that does not mean he also wouldn't be just as happy at the D3 school as you mentioned.

Here is one other thing to remember about the hsbbweb. It sometimes seems that every kid on here is an All-American and has verbally committed by July 1st. For a handful, that is the case, but the majority is different and that may include signing with your dream D1, D2, or D3 school in the spring time. For example, I was not a member of the hsbbweb on July 1st after my son's junior season. Thus, when we did not get any phone calls on July 1st, neither he nor I felt any pressure or disappointment because we did not know any different. Sometimes information is a good thing, sometimes it can lead to unnecessary worry and frustration. I will keep you in my thoughts because I have good vibes that your son will indeed end up at his dream school

milodad, DIII coaches do not know who will be on the roster until the day of tryouts. There are no committments at all at DIII, save early decision, and for ED you can enroll and not play. Although it would be in bad form if the coach helped with ED and not play, but even then, neither the player nor the coach are committed to anything.