What are the top D3 schools for developing pitchers?
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1. Trinity University.
2. Chapman University.
3. Cortland.
What metric would you use to measure development? Are we looking for guys who started D3 and ended up going pro? There's a few of those each year, right? But I doubt any school has a track record of D3 to pro pitchers. I know that WashU put a pitcher in the pros a few years ago. And my Washington Huskies put a former D3 pitcher (Carleton College) in the pros last year. Can't recall the names / schools of the other recent ones.
Sometimes it’s late development that turns a non pro prospect D3 pitcher into a pro prospect.
One year the D3 championship was two starting pitchers who entered college cruising 82 and left college cruising 92. One blew out his arm on Low A. The other made it to AAA.
@NotABaseballGuy posted:What metric would you use to measure development? Are we looking for guys who started D3 and ended up going pro? There's a few of those each year, right? But I doubt any school has a track record of D3 to pro pitchers. I know that WashU put a pitcher in the pros a few years ago. And my Washington Huskies put a former D3 pitcher (Carleton College) in the pros last year. Can't recall the names / schools of the other recent ones.
I guess I'm thinking about schools that actually have a program to develop pitchers in terms of increasing velocity and just overall becoming a better pitcher. I hear and read stories about schools talking about pitching development but in reality you're on your own. You hear about a school like Wake Forrest having a "pitching lab" and I wonder if there's anything equivalent at the D3 level.
@RJM posted:Sometimes it’s late development that turns a non pro prospect D3 pitcher into a pro prospect.
One year the D3 championship was two starting pitchers who entered college cruising 82 and left college cruising 92. One blew out his arm on Low A. The other made it to AAA.
Ideally the school would have a history of their pitchers being drafted but I suspect that if the pitcher is that good they would transfer to a D1 school.
@CM posted:I guess I'm thinking about schools that actually have a program to develop pitchers in terms of increasing velocity and just overall becoming a better pitcher. I hear and read stories about schools talking about pitching development but in reality you're on your own. You hear about a school like Wake Forrest having a "pitching lab" and I wonder if there's anything equivalent at the D3 level.
The D1 programs in most of the major power conferences all have full pitching and hitting labs for most of their athletic programs. It's really amazing as to what is involved. Also they have player development staff to read and interpret data as well as well training and medical staff.
The smaller/mid D1 programs do have basic equipment. I am not familiar with other divisions.
You can Google UF baseball pitching lab for an idea of what's included.
My hunch is that you aren't going to find what you're talking about at any D3 school. If you're looking for high tech stuff, pick a school that has a ton of extra cash to spend on athletics. That will typically track with the wealth of the student body. (Looking at you Middlebury, WashU, etc.) But really, any D3 kid interested in going pro should probably just be spending his summers at Driveline.
@NotABaseballGuy posted:My hunch is that you aren't going to find what you're talking about at any D3 school. If you're looking for high tech stuff, pick a school that has a ton of extra cash to spend on athletics. That will typically track with the wealth of the student body. (Looking at you Middlebury, WashU, etc.) But really, any D3 kid interested in going pro should probably just be spending his summers at Driveline.
My son would definitely prefer to go to a D1 but only really getting interest from top level D3s and Jucos.
@CM posted:My son would definitely prefer to go to a D1 but only really getting interest from top level D3s and Jucos.
Maybe I missed something. What year is your son and what are his stats?
If he is serious, he should have begun training and instruction a while ago.
It's not where you start. The transfer portal is real.
@NotABaseballGuy posted:It's not where you start. The transfer portal is real.
Agreed. Just not sure how common it is to go from D3 to D1.
@TPM posted:Maybe I missed something. What year is your son and what are his stats?
If he is serious, he should have begun training and instruction a while ago.
2025. Tops out at 87. Very good with breaking balls and off speed. Excellent command and control. Velo is not there yet.
CM
In other current threads on new D1 roster limits, the challenges of current HS players getting recruited and playing time/development are definitely worth your attention.
BOF gave you 3 top schools. One has won a National Championship and consistently has pitching stats in the top levels of D3. In the last 2 years, one signed professionally, one was the D3 National pitcher of the year (and transferred to a highly rated D1), and the 3rd was also a D1 transfer.
Good advice above from infielddad. Be advised the early signing period for D1 programs is in a month, approximately.
Sent you a message.
TPM, I read a number of articles in the last 2 days saying the NLI process and signing timeframes have been repealed. Supposedly being replaced by a contract and scholarship approach. Couldn’t find an implementation date but assume it will be 2025.
Not sure. I went by the D1 article which is USUALLY spot on.
“One of the longest standing programs in college sports is coming to an end.
The NCAA Division I Council approved the elimination of the National Letter of Intent program on Wednesday, ending a 60-year reign over collegiate athletics as the binding agreement between student athletes and member schools.”
ESPN says the change is immediate!
My son's HA D3 only acquired a Rapsodo this year! It certainly wasn't due to a lack of funds but a coaching philosophy (a poor one imo) of not taking advantage of available technology.
@2022NYC posted:My son's HA D3 only acquired a Rapsodo this year! It certainly wasn't due to a lack of funds but a coaching philosophy (a poor one imo) of not taking advantage of available technology.
This is what I'm afraid of! A D3 school with lots of money but no real pitching development.
I think you have to understand that most D3 schools just don't have the staffs to do the kind of development that I think you mean. Many have a head coach, a couple of part-time assistant coaches, and maybe share a trainer with all the other sports. Even with rhapsodo and plenty of analytics, and the best will in the world, there's a limit to how much can be done - especially at a school where the schoolwork may be demanding, with no academic support just for athletes. They assume that if you want more baseball development, you will pay for it yourself at driveline or some other facility. In fact, there's no reason why you shouldn't do that if you have the money (we did not).
You might tell your son that many lower-level D1 schools also don't have many of those things. So choosing a school just for a shiny D1 label might not be better than choosing a D3 school that will encourage players to improve themselves.
The schools doing this are losing their PCs to better schools over time
Important points:
- Any pitcher going to a lower level D1 or D3 is not going to play professional ball other than lower levels or independent league. Sorry their are outliers, but this is a fact.
- The most important aspect of college is developing into a productive adult, and develop future job opportunities. Baseball is part of that but there are more important factors IMO.
- The college experience should be fun, rewarding and something to look back positively on.
- @CM, I point this out a lot, but winning is a lot more fun than losing. Playing for a high level D3 that is consistently in the league championships, regionals, and maybe the CWS blows away playing for loosing/ marginal D1. With out a doubt the most fun I had as a parent (and team) were at the League Championships, Regionals and CWS.
- Beyond the finding the best pitching coach, you want your son to be mentored by a head coach and staff that helps develop young men into quality adults.
- I am sure you can find these qualities in a number of programs/schools but it takes a lot of work.
My son was blessed to play for two men who were his mentors, as well as developed him as a better human and baseball player. Even though he was receiving pro questionnaires in his Sr year he threw them in the trash, knowing a kid throwing 93 out of college is not going to make it very far in pro ball. (that was almost 10 years ago)
Best of luck!
@BOF posted:Important points:
- Any pitcher going to a lower level D1 or D3 is not going to play professional ball other than lower levels or independent league. Sorry their are outliers, but this is a fact.
Outlier: https://washubears.com/news/20...louis-cardinals.aspx
And I seriously doubt this is the only one.
@NotABaseballGuy posted:Outlier: https://washubears.com/news/20...louis-cardinals.aspx
And I seriously doubt this is the only one.
That is awesome. The Cardinals catcher, Pedro Pages, was brought up this year. He was the FAU catcher when son was pcoach. He wasn't an outlier and drafted 6th round, struggled at his at bats, but who knew then what we know now!
My son was recruited by WashU back in the day. I don't remember their saying anything particular about pitcher development. I do remember a different D3 school that said they didn't believe in some development technique, my son crossed them off. Of course all schools want and support pitchers who can be good, and some of them blossom into draftable players. My guess, though, is that the development happened on their own initiative.
What you are looking for is a coach who supports that, and also who has connections with top summer leagues where the players can play with and against D1 players. That is certainly something you can ask about.
Most stories you will hear of D3 pitchers getting drafted, worked independently on their own to get there with a personal coach. Some of the good private pitching programs have contacts with top summer collegiate programs and scouts, who will help place you if your College coach can't or won't. The D3 schools don't usually have the facilities, equipment or expertise. The most important thing for which school is getting innings. I'd also say that if the head coach wasn't a catcher or pitcher, look elsewhere.
Of course all that said, sometimes a kid just wants to get as good as they can possibly be, and it has nothing to do with dreams of professional baseball.
Both my kids rely/relied on outside training in college (low level D1s), Low level D1 pitching development is like mushroom management. Sh*t on them, keep them in the dark, and hope they develop. If/when they do, roll them out until they break down.
The good PCs move onto bigger programs.
Re: low level D1/D3 players rarely going pro, etc. I think with the transfer portal now, you'll see it a lot more. But it'll be low level D1 -> P4 or similar -> pro ball.
Among the outliers, don't forget Mason Miller. Or Billy Wagner, who was 5'6" as a college freshman. IMHO we are going to see more of it with the change in NCAA roster rules. Not to mention how MLB seems to be turning college baseball into more of a developmental program for their clubs.
@JohnnySakko posted:Among the outliers, don't forget Mason Miller. Or Billy Wagner, who was 5'6" as a college freshman. IMHO we are going to see more of it with the change in NCAA roster rules. Not to mention how MLB seems to be turning college baseball into more of a developmental program for their clubs.
One kid I had seen from my son's league was Dominic Perachi, came from tiny high school, didn't throw hard, but could really spin the ball as a lefty, tall lefty 6'4" but underweight. Went to Salve Regina in RI (one of the better programs in the NE) and the coach there likes tall guys who can throw strikes, and will let them develop. he put on 30lbs and throws 93-94 now. My son actually considered their program, It was really late in recruiting and he had told my son he'd offer him a shot at making the team during the fall, which I believe was honest, but he got offered a spot at his preferred academic school.
Perachi is now in Pirates organization. When I look at a pitchers stats the thing that stands out to me on considering if he will have a shot is his Hits to Inning pitched and K's to BB and per inning. The guys who throws lots of innings and give up fewer hits than innings pitched, are the ones that can pitch. I don't think any other stat matches up.
I think he's on his way.
https://www.milb.com/player/dominic-perachi-806270
btw, here is a quote by Salve head coach Eric Cerella in an interview about Perachi, Cerella is a second generation coach at Salve, his father Stephen is the programs winningest head coach.
"There are Division III players in the big leagues,” Cirella said. “It doesn’t matter. Everyone develops at different times. That’s our pitch.”
A whole lot of players in DIII got a huge advantage with covid. A year off to get bigger and then multiple years of extra time at older ages and a year to transfer to D1 if capable. I think it was a rare opportunity for DIII guys that won't continue to that extent. Perachi was the rare guy who was recruited from his DIII.