Dartmouth and Duke

We went to visit Duke this past fall with our 2015 son. It was a beautiful campus and nice facilities. We took the entire tour. The head coach, Pollard, just finished his 1st year and it was successful. He left Appalachian State which he led them to a SoCon championship. They are turning the program around and are getting some top recruits. The coach told my son they have changed the way they are recruiting so they can start competing with the FSU's and Virginia's and so forth. They are recruiting the athlete 1st then making sure they qualify academically. If you look at their recruits they just signed for the 2014 class and what they already have for 2015 you will see they have made great strides in what the coach told us. It is an up and coming program and may make some noise in the next few years.

Southwest prof - sent you a dialog.

Southwest prof - sent you a dialog.

Southwestprof - 

 

Hunter10 is making some good points.  I'll expand a little (or repeat) on his thoughts.

 

While the Ivy League has some great players, Duke still plays in the ACC and recruits ACC players.  With Coach Pollard running things I agree with Hunter10, I'd look for Duke to begin being much more competitive in the ACC.  And if you can compete in the ACC, you can compete with almost anyone.  Conversely, winning the Ivy League and going to a regional can happen at Dartmouth any given year.  But then you are almost always likely to be paired with a Number 1 seed.  

 

Something else to note… last season Duke played 55 games while Dartmouth only played 41.  The difference comes from fewer midweek games out of conference & 2 game sets vs 3 game sets in conference.  Add to that the ACC spans from Miami to Boston meaning a road trip suddenly becomes more intense.

 

Simply put, the athletic experience is going to be VERY different at these 2 schools.

 

While we will not be seeing Dartmouth (due to geography) on our Bus Tours next summer.  We will see Duke & workout there.  Feel free to check out the itineraries of the 4 trips.  We'll see lots of great schools, but the 2 High Academic Tours may be of interest to you.

 

Rich

www.PlayInSchool.com/bus_tour

My take on the two:

 

                          Duke    Dartmouth

Competition           9 - ACC     6 - Ivy 

Academics            9             10

Schedule demand   10            6

(baseball)

Weather                8             2

Location

(travel etc)             9             4

 

Both are excellent schools but are at the ends of the spectrum as far as D1 competition levels. You could probably get away with taking a more difficult major at Dartmouth. Forget it at Duke.

 

Both would be excellent choices but are really very different in fit depending on the player. As mentioned Duke MUST have ACC level players, Dartmouth would like to have them. 

Agree 100% with BOF. 

 

I have seen Dartmouth up close and personal for the last 3 years.  They are very well coached, and have won the Ivy Rolfe division many times in the last 10 years but lost in the Ivy championship the last 3 years.  Coach Whalen has been there 23+ years which says something in my book.

 

Four things come to mind in comparing these two choices and situations.  First, is your son's intended major which will be directly affected by the number of games, practice schedule, weekday travel, and season length.  Second, is when would he potentially see the field or win some playing time?  This may be difficult to project but I think you have to be honest with yourself.  Is winning a starting position at Dartmouth freshmen year a better situation than winning a starting spot at Duke his junior year?  Something to think about.  Third is understanding the differences between athletic scholarships and need based financial aid.  Both are private schools, and the differences in COA could be huge.   Fourth is around roster turnover.  I think if you look at Dartmouth's roster you'll see names progressing from year to year with very few changes, additions or subtractions.  Ivy rosters tend to be static.  ACC rosters tend to be dynamic (tranfers and JUCO additions).  I can't speak for Duke specifically, but when you are in a big boy conference it becomes an arms race.  You need to understand how they are going to operate under a new head coach.  JMO.

 

Good luck!

ACC baseball...elite education...young head coach...good facilities...and an excellent location makes Duke a little more desirable to a good player. Not Vandy or Stanford yet but moving in the right direction.. Also....US News has Duke ranked the 7th best university and Dartmouth the 10th in its "Best College" rankings. 

Thanks to all of you who responded! Your knowledge and advice are much appreciated! I have shared this information with my 2015 son.

 

Take care!

SWProf  -  sent you a PM

Both schools are outstanding but I do know that Dartmouth is usually ranked number 1 or 2 in earnings once you graduate. I think they usually change places with Harvey Mudd (CMS) every year or so. Again not that Duke is chopped liver . I think it is a good point that Duke is headed toward a Stanford model. 

Major differences in the conferences and scholarship issues have been addressed  but another difference is that Duke is located pretty much in the middle of the ACC with a major airport (RDU) close by.  Other ACC schools in driving distance:  UNC and NC State (in the same Triangle area), Wake, UVA, and VT, that I can think of right off hand.

 

Hanover NH is pastoral, rural, lovely, etc...but Boston is 2 hours away.  

 

Academically, you can't go wrong with either school.  But, you do have to live there for 4 years.  If you like what larger cities have to offer, Dartmouth may not be the place.  

 

Being central and airports are nice. But Maryland buses to BC. I was shocked when I was at the hotel the ACC stay and the Maryland bus pulled up. It's an 8 hour drive. There are a lot of long bus rides in college sports.

No doubt!

 

 In regards to the airport, I was thinking more of the player getting home, parents visiting, etc. A larger city offers the opportunity to get off campus to visit friends at nearby schools, taking the bus into town, etc....!  When I was at Dartmouth, bars closed up at mid-night on Saturday nights.  We partied across the river in Vermont so we could, well, party a little longer!

One of the nice things about playing at Duke is the bus rides are not as bad as in many conferences. There are three ACC opponents in the immediate area, and there are plenty of nearby colleges like Elon, App State and Campbell that make for legitimate non conference opponents. So the bus travel isn't that bad, compared to many schools.

Counterpoint on Rob's point about bus rides...

 

FWIW....In conference, Dartmouth plays two doubleheaders (12pm - 7 inning, and 2pm - 9 inning game) every Sat and Sun over 5 weekends.  Of those 5 in conference weekends, the team can travel up to 2-3 times on a Friday depending on the opponent.   The Ivy conference has two divisions.  Dartmouth plays 4 game series against Harvard, Brown, and Yale within its division.  The teams alternate home and away every year.   It also plays 2 games each against the other division using a travel partner system to limit time and travel.   Typically leave on Friday afternoon to arrive Friday night to prepare for Sat games.  Dartmouth's longest drive in conference would be to travel partners (two game series each) with Cornell/Princeton. 

 

BTW...Son played there a few years ago in April, and they still had snow piles that had been plowed off to the side of the synthetic baseball field (which is wonderful!).  They tend to draw a decent home crowd by Ivy standards (a few hundred). 

Something else to consider: Duke has more than double the number of students as Dartmouth (and Dartmouth is the smallest Ivy by far). Both are elite institutions with Dartmouth being harder to get into (all things being equal, which--admittedly--they rarely are).

 

Another difference is that the baseball coach at Duke has greater input and admissions has greater leeway (qualifications-wise) regarding whether a prospective student athlete has the academic chops to be admitted. Ivy league athletic recruitment is heavily impacted by the minimum acceptable academic qualifications dictated by the Academic Index or "AI," which is determined based on SATs/ACT scores and class rank. (If you are serious about Ivy schools, do yourself a favor and familiarize yourself with the AI).

 

If the Ivy recruit doesn't hit at least the minimum accepted index number, it doesn't matter if his fastball sits at 94--the coach does not have the ability to "push him over the top" with admissions.

My son had contacts with both staffs during recruiting this last year, and we went to both schools.  I believe Duke is getting much better baseball wise, and they are definitely a top academic institution.  They also play in ACC and in D1 which was very appealing to my son.  Dartmouth is awesome.  It is clear why they are normally at the top of the Ivy League every year in baseball as they have a huge indoor facility they use for practices and simulated games.  The campus and city are what you think about when you imagine a college town with an elite educational institution, (and they filmed Animal House there so what's not to like).  Depending on your income level Dartmouth may be a better option financially, as well as they provide "need" based monies instead of scholarships.  We loved both of them and I believe my son would have had a great baseball/academic experience had he gone to either one.