Days rest between outings

My 2016 goes every 5th day."1" time this year he pitched on his 4th day.He hasn't thrown 100 pitches in a game yet.The coach is doing a real good job this year with all the guys.In fact because of short rest last start(Fri.) coach told 2016 he would go 3 innings tonite.When end of 3rd came aroung he threw 1 more for a total of 39 pitches over 4.No way of complaining.

Thanks Proudhesmine. My son has played for this coach for 4 years and has always had a start a week, with maybe a 1-2 inning relief appearance after 4 days. Of course we were never in contention for anything before now. That is the only reason I can figure he did what he did, not a good reason though. He pitched him on 2 days rest. I showed up a little late to the game and was shocked when I saw him on the mound. I knew immediately he wasnt himself. I said out loud that he is back too soon. Another father said well he didnt throw a lot of pitches Saturday. He threw 67 in a complete game but I still think that is too many to come back 2 days later. He didnt pitch great and 6 errors later he had pitched 94 pitches before the coach finally pulled him. My son has a scholarship, and although I would love to see the HS team do well, I would rather keep him healthy for college. I am furious with my son for not opening his mouth. He knows better so he is taking the brunt of my anger right now.  I don't think I am but I just wanted to make sure I am not being unreasonable. 

We have raised our sons with "do what your coach tells you" to the point for some of these kids (yours,mine, and others) its to a fault.My 2016 has been playing for our HC for 6 yrs. now.He has 1 year left.To be honest its been one real struggle.I know where your coming from.Things were so bad freshman yr. I bought a pitch counter and would stand on opposing side in sight line of coach with the counter out for all to see.I could tell you story after story and you would think high school coach really?This year hasn't been anywhere near as years past.I really try and look at things in the positive.Unfortunatly this whole thing can be put in the laps of our/any pitcher.All any of them have to do is say no or enough.Its taken me 2 yrs. plus this year to get that pounded in my guys head.2 days rest?You handled things way better than I would have.TO ME pitching on 2 days rest would be pitching in a game or two short of state championship and coach needs OUT of   "1" inning.I would not like it but bringing in your gun for 10-12 ptchs to get off the field I get.

Pitch on Monday. Pitch on Saturday. Four days rest. Of course we all know it's not rest its actually the prep time between outings. Sixty or 70 pitches is a toast situation in my book. He might as well have thrown 100.

Things can also change coming down the wire. Our HC just raised my eyebrows a bit this weekend. We went into a dh with only four games left in the season. Both us and the team we played were undefeated in conference, so this was basically for the conference championship. #1 (Sr.) threw a CG shutout in game #1 on 58 pitches. Game two was getting away from us. #2 starts game #2 and gets hit around. My son comes in and shuts things down until the bottom of 6 when he loaded the bases with one out up by 2 runs. HC brings back #1. Ground ball to third. We get the force at second and miss the dp at first. F3 has to stretch to try and make the play. As a result, R3 AND R2 score on the ground out, tying the game. Next batter K's. #1 threw 8 pitches. In the top of 7, it starts sleeting, raining, and snowing. Game suspended. This is a Saturday. We return on Tuesday to finish the game. We score one in the top of 7 and #1 again takes the mound, shuting them down on 10 pitches. This secures the conference championship. So, #1 threw three different times in a four day span. While you wouldn't want to do this on a regular basis, I have no problem given the situation.

Having had a son that was a #1, I can honestly say that every time he pitched in a meaningful game, my chest size increased dramatically. In retrospect, watching him now, some 10 years later with shoulder problems causing nearly constant pain, I’m completely ashamed of myself for not stopping the overuse in order to get win what was supposed to be a meaningful game as many as 10 times during the season, season after season.

A question, though, if you are in a position to answer. Would he have given those moments up if you could guarantee he would have no shoulder pain today?

I'm a slow reader so want to make sure I got this right.  Your son threw 67 pitches on Saturday and then came back Tuesday and threw 94?

If that's the case then yes that is too short of a turn around.  I agree with Coach May that once you get in the neighborhood of 60 you've ran out of gas.  But some kids it's even less than 60.  This is the art of coaching in knowing who can come back in less time than someone else and still be healthy.  I don't think in the situation above with your son could anybody be expected to come back on that.  

I'm a big fan of if you get a start on a Monday or Tuesday then you're going to throw a bullpen late in the week.  If conditions are perfect I will let them throw 1 or 2 innings in relief (number of pitches will dictate this) in lieu of a bullpen if that's what we need to help win a game.  But if I feel the conditions aren't conducive to the relief being used as a bullpen then we don't do it.  Then we judge if they need bullpen work or more rest.  Each and every single pitcher and outing by each pitcher is a case by case basis. But overall each of my pitchers will only get a full load in a game of 5+ innings over 60 pitches once in a week.

Roothog, 

I get what you're saying and had that been the situation or the number of pitches, i would not have had a problem.  There was no need for him to start this game.  If he wanted him to close out the game because the starter got in trouble and he needed an out or two or three, I get it.  We need to win 3 games of the next 9 to secure a playoff spot.  He could have pitched any of the other 3 games we have this week.  Then when he did start him he watched a kid who has given up 5 hits in 28 innings give up 5 hits in the first 3 innings to a weaker team than the others.  He definitely did not look like himself, there were a bunch of errors as well. He looked like he was working hard, he did not have it, yet he still left him in for 94 pitches.  He really has always been good with my son, following pretty much what coach2709 is doing, so I really don't get it. I am not going to make an issue of it because it was only the 1st time he has done this.I discussed it with my son and told him to open his mouth next time. I told him to tell him not only that he could hurt himself but that he won't be as effective as he needs to be for the team.

There is still a lot of ignorance concerning maximum pitch count and recommended days of rest. 

I'm including two quote from another local forum from fans. 

If it means a lot to [local town] don't be surprised if [pitchers name deleted] pitches both games. I seen him throw three in a row last year. Around this time of year.

Made absolutely no sense not to pitch our ace last night. He was ready to go and we have [local team] coming up on Friday. Instead we pitch a guy who hasn't thrown but 4 or 5 innings all season. Makes no sense at all to me. I am definitely perplexed on that one. 

The pitcher in the first quote is a senior with a scholarship to a d2 school. 

The pitcher in the second quote is a freshman with a lot of promise and has a 0.10 ERA in 4 games. He had pitched 7 innings on Friday and fans were wondering why he didn't pitch the following Tuesday. 

These two pitchers are on competing teams in the same district. 

Originally Posted by roothog66:

A question, though, if you are in a position to answer. Would he have given those moments up if you could guarantee he would have no shoulder pain today?

I can’t say for sure, but here’s something I do know. He’s been eliminated from several job opportunities, including the military, police, and fire department because he fails the physical profile. So you tell me. Personally, knowing my son, I believe he’d have given those moments up in a heartbeat! He only pitched because he was constantly being told by almost everyone, including me, that he was helping his team much more as a pitcher than as a fielder or hitter. It’s not that he wasn’t a great hitter with lots of power, or a tremendous infielder. It’s that he was such a great pitcher, it would have been next to impossible to match his mound success with his everyday player success.

And he loved it when he was the center of attention, getting interviewed regularly for something he’d done. Heck! No sense in lying about it, I loved it too and proudly told story after story about him. And now it brings tears to my eyes when I see him have to take pills just to be able to raise his arm above his shoulder or get a good night’s sleep. And for what? A game.

People need to read stats post and let it sink in. Thats an honest from the heart post that could been written by numerous Dads. The best arms are the ones at most risk. If your son starts a game he has no business starting another game without at least four days rest. And with the proper recovery work between starts. People talk about the number of pitches thrown in the game. But that's only part of the story.

The long tossvto get loose. The bull pen to get ready. The pitches between innings. The hidden throws that are not counted in the official count. The pitches per inning. The stress of the game pitches. Now your going to run him back out there without proper recovery. How many throws in practice as a position player? How many throws in games as a position player? Is the risk worth the reward to you? 

Three games a week 21innings and your going ride one arm for half of them. A third is enough isn't it? I don't understand what's so hard for people and coaches to understand. Read stats post. That's real. That's honesty. 

mom,

I think you are smart enough to know that the coach was pushing it and unfortunetly this happens this time of year at any level.  I wouldnt say anything to anyone but your son, if it should happen again.

Stats,

Your son doesnt have to live on pills.  You put him at risk allowing the overuse,  you are partly responsible, so you should help him to seek proper medical care and treatment.

What exactly is the issue?  Why hasnt he taken care of it?

JMO