So how do you deal with a bad team? That kind of team which looses a lot more than they win (winning maybe a handful of games). With many of the losses by mercy rule. Where the team is defeated on the bus ride TO the game.
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Well we usually deal with those teams by throwing our 4-5th pitcher 
I kid I kid
Is it a TB or school team? Are the coaches coaching? I'm going to guess no if they are already defeated prior to the game.
Do you mean playing for one or against one?
Golfman25 posted:
So how do you deal with a bad team? That kind of team which looses a lot more than they win (winning maybe a handful of games). With many of the losses by mercy rule. Where the team is defeated on the bus ride TO the game.
I’d never been associated with a HSV team like that before the summer of 2015. If you look at the attachment you’ll see 2 different reports. The 19 wins don’t look too bad until you realize that 8 of them were against Sr Babe Ruth teams, and 13 of the 19 wins came in either summer or fall ball, with no wins against teams in the same division during the “normal” spring season. 14 of the 52 losses were shutouts, and 27 were “mercy” losses. The final page shows how that team was dominated in R/H/E/Lob.
I write a newsletter after every game and was as positive as possible while not sugarcoating anything. Not being a coach, my main focus was on trying to get support from the parents by teaching them the nuances of the game and the rules to help them understand what was going on.
I’m sorry to say that no matter what I did, between the school administration’s lack of support, the lack of quality coaching, the lack of support by the parents, the lack of a talent “pipeline”, and the lack of effort by the players, I finally threw in the towel and have moved on. 
If there are only a couple of those things that are lacking, I really believe things can be turned around. But when they’re all a problem there’s really no hope.
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How does who handle it?
As a coach, I would break it down to obtainable goals and small victories. I would establish measurable growth benchmarks. I would display the kind of "no quit" attitude in my effort to help them improve that I would come to expect from the players. Where possible, I would schedule non-conference teams that we could compete with to allow for the important lessons on how to win. I would recruit as much help as possible to feed the group a steady diet of fundamental learning. I would include a great deal of competitive inter-squad activities and fun team-building events. Make sure they are having fun playing the game while learning and improving, even if still losing.
"We lost to this team 15-0 in five last time. This time we were competitive until the last out." "We averaged less than four hits a game last year. This year we are almost double that." Constantly praise small victories while demanding continued efforts toward improvement. As some momentum is built, scour the fields and hallways for players who aren't playing because they didn't know what was about to happen.
Then, after it starts happening, continue to raise the bar. Start to harden that soft schedule. Communicate clearly what it will take to reach the next step. Provide resources. Be a conduit for other playing opportunities outside of the HS team. Offer to stay late for anyone wanting extra reps. As much as possible, hold them accountable in every aspect on and off the field - field maintenance, community service, grades, contribution to team environment. Start to transition the goal setting responsibilities to the team. Then, keep helping them get there.
Oh, and develop a couple good pitchers
johnnysako posted:Well we usually deal with those teams by throwing our 4-5th pitcher
Is it a TB or school team? Are the coaches coaching? I'm going to guess no if they are already defeated prior to the game.
Funny, but your 4-5 pitcher would probably no-hit us. 
It's a high school team. Coaching is more along the lines of supervising. Not a lot of teaching as far as I can see. I was hopeful give they instituted a new offseason program. Now I am simply discouraged. Kid is even more discouraged.
Our high school coach although nice and a great guy who is the counselor for the school does not know the strategy to win games! No batting, catching or specific coach. Our coaches have not even played college ball. What a shame because when these boys were growing up on the travel team we kicked butt!! Had coaches who knew how to coach!!
We were 1-10 this year, 1-7 in conference play with our lone win by forfeit. Every loss was a mercy rule loss. We averaged 3 runs a game, all on walks/steals. Nobody had an RBI. Most games we had 0 hits. Only 1 run was scored on an "ace". I believe only 1 hit ever came off of an "ace" and that was in our last game. This was a varsity team. We should have been playing JV teams. The pitchers we beat up were JV level pitchers. If your team is that bad as varsity, you don't belong in varsity. Keep them as JV and BUILD the program/players up until you have a great system/program where you can compete. Our entire varsity sports teams (everyone is varsity here) had a total of 6 league wins all season and most teams had 0. Finally after convincing the AD, he's decided to pull us out of this league and let us be independent so we could schedule games with more even competition.
Golfman25 posted:So how do you deal with a bad team? That kind of team which looses a lot more than they win (winning maybe a handful of games). With many of the losses by mercy rule. Where the team is defeated on the bus ride TO the game.
That's an easy one. You keep playing hard. Some of the best players I've seen in HS baseball are on some of the worst teams. Yeah it's hard on them sometimes, but the guys who go 100% on every pitch make an impact, and they make an impression, win or lose.
JCG posted:Golfman25 posted:So how do you deal with a bad team? That kind of team which looses a lot more than they win (winning maybe a handful of games). With many of the losses by mercy rule. Where the team is defeated on the bus ride TO the game.
That's an easy one. You keep playing hard. Some of the best players I've seen in HS baseball are on some of the worst teams. Yeah it's hard on them sometimes, but the guys who go 100% on every pitch make an impact, and they make an impression, win or lose.
Thank you! I needed to hear this today. We are coming off a bad season with a lot of drama. I want to move forward. I want my son to move forward and be the player you are describing.
sportsmomof3 posted:Our high school coach although nice and a great guy who is the counselor for the school does not know the strategy to win games! No batting, catching or specific coach. Our coaches have not even played college ball. What a shame because when these boys were growing up on the travel team we kicked butt!! Had coaches who knew how to coach!!
Definitely the coaches' fault! Funny thing is, the more talented the team, the less strategy you need to know. The more you simply kick butt like you did in Little League.
Maybe your kid and his friends just aren't good enough? Just offering a differing opinion.
You could look at it as a learning experience.
Someone asked me how my kid always seems to come up with the overthrown ball? It doesn't matter is he is playing 1B, P, C...he seems to KNOW where the ball will be overthrown to. My response was, he's been on some REALLY bad teams...he has learned by now where the ball is likely to be overthrown on a play like that and gets himself there, you know, just in case.
Sportsmomof3 - summer travel ball is starting soon. Enjoy it. Unfortunately it is not easy to have a choice of high school teams, so your son just has to make the best of it.
howdybaseball posted:Sportsmomof3 - summer travel ball is starting soon. Enjoy it. Unfortunately it is not easy to have a choice of high school teams, so your son just has to make the best of it.
It is also possible that her sons "travel team" is a low level team who beat up on poor competition. Then the HS season came and they simply weren't as good as the travel season may have suggested. (Also possible that the coaching stinks). Parents blaming the coaching gets a little old when 95+% of high school players will never play past high school. Always the coaches fault!
Generally speaking, if you are a varsity parent and your son is still playing "travel ball", in lieu of "showcase baseball", then there is your first sign.
Travel/summer ball is the medium for showcases - not sure what the implied suggestion is. Ofcourse, there are individual showcases but travel/summer teams at high school levels are playing in showcase tournaments.
Maybe your kid and his friends just aren't good enough? Just offering a differing opinion.
stole my thought
Will posted:Maybe your kid and his friends just aren't good enough? Just offering a differing opinion.
stole my thought
They aren't good. That's the problem. Some just flat out stink. But I think they have potential. They would need a lot of work, but they do have the potential to compete. But the hitters need to be taught to hit doubles, not ground balls. The pitchers need to be taught to miss small, not throw to the backstop. Fielders need to not crap their pants when the ball is hit to them. Catchers need to be taught how to receive properly so we get more strikes. Etc.
FYI my response wasn't directed at you Golfman. You weren't here just to male excuses.
howdybaseball posted:Travel/summer ball is the medium for showcases - not sure what the implied suggestion is. Ofcourse, there are individual showcases but travel/summer teams at high school levels are playing in showcase tournaments.
Not necessarily! All showcase teams travel, but not all travel teams showcase!
EX: in order to showcase, there has to be someone watching. Generally, those folks are watching the same 20-30 national programs. If you are not in one of those programs, the likelihood of a bunch of folks (other than parents) watching your son play has been minimized.
Further, every high school varsity program in the Tidewater, VA area is littered with kids who play "showcase/travel" ball. Meanwhile, not every high school varsity program is worth a dang. Reason: some travel teams are made of kids who just aren't very good.
GoHeels posted:howdybaseball posted:Travel/summer ball is the medium for showcases - not sure what the implied suggestion is. Ofcourse, there are individual showcases but travel/summer teams at high school levels are playing in showcase tournaments.
Not necessarily! All showcase teams travel, but not all travel teams showcase!
EX: in order to showcase, there has to be someone watching. Generally, those folks are watching the same 20-30 national programs. If you are not in one of those programs, the likelihood of a bunch of folks (other than parents) watching your son play has been minimized.
Further, every high school varsity program in the Tidewater, VA area is littered with kids who play "showcase/travel" ball. Meanwhile, not every high school varsity program is worth a dang. Reason: some travel teams are made of kids who just aren't very good.
Not many travel/summer teams i know are not showcasing. The tournaments are all showcase tournaments where there are college coaches and is often played at these colleges. When not played at colleges, there are college coaches at the tournaments. The games are very competitive and the talent level is high.
I'll just update now that summer is in full swing. I am very discourage with the HS program (I used to think differently, but I was comparing to other sports at the school). There was a little drama this year and some emails exchanged - with some valid points made. But now that summer ball is upon us, head coach has disappeared (lower level assistant runs the games). Missing a great opportunity to see what he has (or doesn't have) for next year. All of our opponents have their big time coaches out their coach the "new" kids. Going to be a long two years.
Golfman, why not organize a team, hire an ex-pro as coach, buy insurance,
call team and showcases, arrange travel to the games and hire umpires, rent fields. It will be fun, you can be a GM. "Exposure for everyone"
Bob
Golfman25 posted:I'll just update now that summer is in full swing. I am very discourage with the HS program (I used to think differently, but I was comparing to other sports at the school). There was a little drama this year and some emails exchanged - with some valid points made. But now that summer ball is upon us, head coach has disappeared (lower level assistant runs the games). Missing a great opportunity to see what he has (or doesn't have) for next year. All of our opponents have their big time coaches out their coach the "new" kids. Going to be a long two years.
Are you positive there isn't a reason behind that? GA has some weird rules, for example, for the ENTIRE week of July 4th it is a dead period. No practices or games are permitted, not even summer weight lifting for the football team, NOTHING.
Also, I can't find the rule at the moment but there is a rule that a high school head coach may not attend a practice of more than 3 kids out of season. Starting January 1st the head coach takes kids I think 3 at a time for "workouts" in the morning...but up until then it is prohibited for the head coach to have contact with the players.
Weird I know, but sometimes the school systems have rules that are weird.
Here in Ohio, a HS varsity coach can't coach in the summer...except for a very specific (and limited) time if he has more than 4 kids from the same school together. There's probably a reason your HC isn't coaching in the summer....and it may not be just because he doesn't think the team is good. Our HC wasn't allowed to coach, but he could go sit and watch just like any other fan....so that's what he did
Buckeye 2015 posted:Here in Ohio, a HS varsity coach can't coach in the summer...except for a very specific (and limited) time if he has more than 4 kids from the same school together. There's probably a reason your HC isn't coaching in the summer....and it may not be just because he doesn't think the team is good. Our HC wasn't allowed to coach, but he could go sit and watch just like any other fan....so that's what he did
In Illinois we have a sanctioned summer baseball season. Even ends with a tournament. All the other schools have their head coaches out there and I can see why some of these guys consistently win regionals and sectionals. One guy, coming off of two straight regional championships was out there in 90 degree heat coaching for 2-3 hours. He didn't shut up - but worked with every one of his players. If there was a double play ball to 2b, he would talk to his team on the bench about the good/bad on that play. Etc.
Not sure where the guy is, but given the amount of work we need to compete it would be nice if he was there taking control of his program.
Correct Golf, all the head coaches in the FVC are coaching their summer teams. There seems to be more to your suspicion, if he is not there.
CaCO3Girl posted:Are you positive there isn't a reason behind that? GA has some weird rules, for example, for the ENTIRE week of July 4th it is a dead period. No practices or games are permitted, not even summer weight lifting for the football team, NOTHING.
Also, I can't find the rule at the moment but there is a rule that a high school head coach may not attend a practice of more than 3 kids out of season. Starting January 1st the head coach takes kids I think 3 at a time for "workouts" in the morning...but up until then it is prohibited for the head coach to have contact with the players.
Weird I know, but sometimes the school systems have rules that are weird.
VHSL use to have a similar rule, but since it was generally impossible to enforce, they did away with it if my memory serves. Under the previous rules, a HS HC could coach a summer or fall team but at least one player could not be from "his" school. If only players he coached in spring showed up at summer or fall practice, then technically he wasn't suppose to lead the practice. In the local fall league they had for a number of years, the HC was often listed, but it was the assistants or Dad's that led the team practices and games.
That said, that fall league folded a few years ago (not sure why) and I rarely see HS HC coaches coaching teams outside of HS in our area.
Golfman25 posted:Buckeye 2015 posted:Here in Ohio, a HS varsity coach can't coach in the summer...except for a very specific (and limited) time if he has more than 4 kids from the same school together. There's probably a reason your HC isn't coaching in the summer....and it may not be just because he doesn't think the team is good. Our HC wasn't allowed to coach, but he could go sit and watch just like any other fan....so that's what he did
In Illinois we have a sanctioned summer baseball season. Even ends with a tournament. All the other schools have their head coaches out there and I can see why some of these guys consistently win regionals and sectionals. One guy, coming off of two straight regional championships was out there in 90 degree heat coaching for 2-3 hours. He didn't shut up - but worked with every one of his players. If there was a double play ball to 2b, he would talk to his team on the bench about the good/bad on that play. Etc.
Not sure where the guy is, but given the amount of work we need to compete it would be nice if he was there taking control of his program.
So now what. I am afraid for our program. Summer travel teams have been nixed, leaving many players scrambling for a team. Apparently there will be no fall workouts. Seems like our program is going downhill at the same time the conference gets small and tougher.
Why no fall workouts? What had they done in the fall in the past?
Well I for one am confused.
At my sons school in GA, a supposed baseball hotbed, there is no longer Fall baseball, there is no longer summer baseball with the high school team, they actually wrote a georgia high school sports law banning that practice. Kids tryout in January, high school team plays until April/May, then the kids join their travel summer team.
Is that pretty much what you have now?
We have fall baseball here in NorCal. I'm not sure exactly what the rules are but there are only maybe 10-12 games, all played as scrimmages with no score and everybody getting playing time (except one double-header in NV where the home team acts like they're playing in the CWS). They do just 2 practices per week, with weights, yoga, etc. on other days. Some schools don't play, so sometimes schools will pick up a few players from other league teams, particularly pitchers. Other players from those schools will sometimes play on 18u travel teams or scout teams.
ironhorse posted:Why no fall workouts? What had they done in the fall in the past?
Fall was usually 2 on field practices run by the seniors (and observed by the coach so nobody gets hurt). Then a day or two of speed/agility type workouts. This would lead into winter with throwing and weight lifting. Due to association rules, it's all "off the books" meaning it's "optional", open to anyone, and no specific coaching. Just give the kids the opportunity to work on their game. But it was something. A for a program that needs the work, imo, essential.
That sucks. We have a baseball class at my district in Texas, and then on field optional work after school. I complain we don't have enough time, but I guess we have it good compared to some.
Did the coach just decide to stop the workouts? Or was he assigned other duties that made him not able to?
Our HS doesn't do anything in the fall. There is a fall league that takes kids from about a 60 mile radius and forms 8-10 teams that will play 6-8 games in the fall....but that's it. No practice...just show up for a DH on Saturday or Sunday. Heck, we hardly had winter workouts....they were mostly run by the seniors and whoever showed up showed up. We start practice about 3 weeks before the season, then once the season ends, that's the last our kids will see of our HC until practice the next spring. Sad thing is, our teams are usually pretty good. If he'd put in a little time with them, we could be really competitive. We have a pretty good youth program, but we lose so many kids to other sports because they hear so many bad things about the HS coach that a lot just give up baseball after 8th grade. We did just get a new AD....and I think he's putting a little pressure on the HC to do more.
One of the top local players in my area played for a horrible high school team. He was the starting SS and #1 pitcher on the worst team in the conference. He started there all four years and was by far their best player when he showed up as a freshman. He was a dominating pitcher during his time there as well as a top hitter. He hit 90mph by his junior year and was low 90's as a senior.
He would have been the best player on the top teams in the conference as an infielder, pitcher and as a hitter. He was just that good. If he pitched, they still lost a lot of games due to a lack of run support and numerous defensive errors. Of course, if he was pitching, then the best defensive player was on the mound. When he didn't pitch, they had no shot. When they did win, he had to completely shut down the other team, and score/drive in the runs, and hope there weren't too many errors behind him.
Because it was a split conference, his team got an automatic birth to the state playoffs. In his senior season, they were a bottom seed playing against a top seed that was loaded and had lost only a few games the whole season. He shut them down, scored or drove in the runs, and won a first round playoff game 2-1 by himself.
This kid did play showcase ball and was easily noticed and committed to a D1. However, he was drafted and is currently in the minors.
The key thing is that he endured four years of playing for a bad team. Most kids would have switched schools, and he could have, but didn't.
Nothing here for fall baseball either.Last year seniors put together a get things in shape program starting @ 1st of dec. .....Until BBHC got wind of it then the whole operation was shutdown.The AD was pushed/forced into doing the dirty work for HC telling the kids "No More"
CaCO3Girl posted:Well I for one am confused.
At my sons school in GA, a supposed baseball hotbed, there is no longer Fall baseball, there is no longer summer baseball with the high school team, they actually wrote a georgia high school sports law banning that practice. Kids tryout in January, high school team plays until April/May, then the kids join their travel summer team.
Is that pretty much what you have now?
Not true.
Cobb County HS teams are playing fall schedules as I type this. Also, there are summer HS teams.
The GHSA calendar must be followed which limit contact months, so typically the summer teams will be coached through June with HS coach and the summer is finished with a volunteer coach (typically a former college player associated with the school). Likewise for fall. Various experienced former players, pro scouts, or long time travel coaches with some connection to the school will coach.
Now whether schools choose to field summer or fall teams is another matter, but no rule banning the practice.
Nuke83 posted:CaCO3Girl posted:Well I for one am confused.
At my sons school in GA, a supposed baseball hotbed, there is no longer Fall baseball, there is no longer summer baseball with the high school team, they actually wrote a georgia high school sports law banning that practice. Kids tryout in January, high school team plays until April/May, then the kids join their travel summer team.
Is that pretty much what you have now?
Not true.
Cobb County HS teams are playing fall schedules as I type this. Also, there are summer HS teams.
The GHSA calendar must be followed which limit contact months, so typically the summer teams will be coached through June with HS coach and the summer is finished with a volunteer coach (typically a former college player associated with the school). Likewise for fall. Various experienced former players, pro scouts, or long time travel coaches with some connection to the school will coach.
Now whether schools choose to field summer or fall teams is another matter, but no rule banning the practice.
Sorry, not the same in Cherokee for Fall. They stopped that a few years ago. As for summer teams I believe the rule says something like the coach can have one but no player will be compelled to play on it. If a coach is found to be pressuring players to be on a summer team there are pretty bad consequences.
CaCO3Girl posted:Well I for one am confused.
At my sons school in GA, a supposed baseball hotbed, there is no longer Fall baseball, there is no longer summer baseball with the high school team, they actually wrote a georgia high school sports law banning that practice. Kids tryout in January, high school team plays until April/May, then the kids join their travel summer team.
Is that pretty much what you have now?
Been this way in Ohio for awhile.