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26 replies

Deceiving the pitcher and interference

coach2709coach270910,000+ posts
Two things went on today that I'm curious about.

First one is what we thought was a balk but turned out not to be. Our hitter was in the box ready and the pitcher was taking a long time to deliver. At that weird time that always happens our guy calls time and steps out but the pitcher started to deliver. The plate ump did not grant time and the pitcher stopped his motion. Nobody called balk (we had a runner on first) and after a few seconds they finally did call it. The opposing coach came out and next thing you know the balk is overturned and it's a no pitch.

I've heard of this (or read on it on here) that this is the rule. Could you tell me where in the book to find this rule and what is the purpose of this rule? I expect my pitchers to know the situation and to continue the pitch once they start delivery and reach the point of no return to help avoid injury. It seems to me that this rule bails out pitchers who aren't fully understanding the situation and possibly could create a situation that ends in injury. Does this make sense?

Second situation - the other team hits a popup on the infield right on the first base line. Our 1B is coming in to make the catch and is calling our pitcher off. Out of nowhere the runner flattens our 1B and luckily our pitcher was still able to make the catch. I believe it was a cheap shot on their part because this kid made no effort to avoid our fielder. The ump never said a word about the possibility of interference although it was such a bang bang play with our pitcher still making the catch that maybe he wasn't able to make the interference call.

At what point does this become an ejection due to maliscious contact? Should he at least say something to the player in case it's not obvious in intent to hurt?

This play leaves a little bad taste in my mouth because our kid may have a small concussion and I truly believe the runner could have avoided it.

Thanks guys

Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal; nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude. Thomas Jefferson

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jjkjjk500+ posts
When the batter and pitcher both screw up, it should be a reset as finally occured in OP. Sorry it had to take that long though. Umpire should be making that decision without any outside assistance. Had F1 continued his delivery it should have been called a ball or strike. Rarely will this be called a balk.

The second play, the fact the collision was hard doesn't necessarily warrant an ejection, strictly umpire judgement, unfotunately in these scenarios the umpire by habit may very well be watching the ball and only see's the aftemath of the collision and won't really have an opinion on the intentionality of the collision. As far as the interference again umpire judgement, if he felt F1 was the protected fielder then no int. If the umpire feels F3 is the protected fielder than int. would be correct regardless of who finally made the play.
Michael S. TaylorMichael S. Taylor1,000+ posts
The umpires made the correct call eventually on the balk. If the pitcher follows through with the pitch the pitch is an auto strike. If the batter steps out with two feet, then it's two strikes.
On the play at first, because two fielders are converging the umpire can only protect one fielder. In this case the F3 is calling the ball so he is probably the protected one. That means the pitcher has to clear out for the runner. The runner has to avoid the protected fielder, to avoid interference. The unprotected fielder has to avoid to protect against obstruction.
Once the runner hit the F3 the umpire first decides if it is a protected fielder being interfered with or an unprotected fielder causing obstruction. If it's interference then he needs to kill the ball, call the runner out and return any other runners. The next thing the umpire has to do is decide if the contact was MC. Whether it is obstruction or interference, MC is going to be an ejection.
yawetagyawetag100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by jjk:
Had F1 continued his delivery it should have been called a ball or strike. Rarely will this be called a balk.


Rarely will it be called a ball, too. If the batter tries to step out while the pitcher is pitching, it's a strike. Now only that, I might be getting two strikes, as Mike mentioned.
Last edited by yawetag
coach2709coach270910,000+ posts
Thanks guys I really appreciate the replies. At first I thought that it was a stupid rule on the balk / no balk aspect but after reading this I can see where you want to protect (guess that's a good word) the pitcher from something the batter may do intentionally / unintentionally.

One part I don't understand is the part where if the pitcher still delivers the ball and both feet are out of the box then it's automatically two strikes. What is the rationale in this? You're already punishing the batter with a strike so why make it worse with two strikes due to both feet?

JJK in this case it was my guy who stepped out but you're right in delivering the ball anyway. I'm going to start teaching that to my pitchers.

In the second case I guess I'm venting more than asking because I felt it was a cheap shot. I'm pretty sure my 1B was not in foul territory but right on the line - I can't swear to that. But the only fielder we had near him was our 1B. I can see why the ump may have protected the pitcher because he called it first and my 1B called it late which is why the pitcher was able to still make the play. It's a grey area now that I think about it but even if the ump had protected the pitcher the runner doesn't know this and he had a lot of room in foul territory to get around the 1B. This is why I felt it was malicious.

Thanks for the help guys.
Michael S. TaylorMichael S. Taylor1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by jjk:
That's my fence riding OBR back ground, I was mulling two over for fed, but wasn't sure.

Does it take both feet out, for the auto on the delivery?

Seems like double jeopardy, you call the auto matic cause he stepped out, then another for the same offense?

Coach, have em deliver the pitch..

Yes, it takes both feet for two strikes. The pitch will never be called a ball in Fed. If he steps back or asks for time and the pitcher pitches, it is a strike. If he steps all the way out with both feet bang both strikes.
dw8mandw8man10+ posts
quote:
The pitch will never be called a ball in Fed. If he steps back or asks for time and the pitcher pitches, it is a strike.


Let me make sure I understand what you are saying here....

If the batter asks for time and it is not given, the pitch should be called a strike. This is even if the batter stays in the box?

We had this situation yesterday during son's JUCO game. With a 3-2 count, the batter call for time. It was just as the pitcher was starting his motion, and it was loud enogh to be clearly heard in the stands. What he said was "Time ump". The pitcher continued but floated the ball to home as it appear he thought time was given. The batter never stepped back and the ump didn't give the time out. However, the pitch was called a ball and the batter took first. Was this correct?
yawetagyawetag100+ posts
For everyone confused, here's the applicable Fed rule:

6-2-4: Balk. If there is a runner or runners, any of the following acts by a pitcher while he is touching the pitcher’s plate is a balk: (d) failing to pitch to the batter in a continuous motion immediately after any movement of any part of the body such as he habitually uses in his delivery; (1) If the pitcher, with a runner on base, stops or hesitates in his delivery because the batter steps out of the box (a) with one foot or (b) with both feet or (c) holds up his hand to request “Time,” it shall not be a balk. In (a) and (c), there is no penalty on either the batter or the pitcher. The umpire shall call “Time” and begin play anew. In (b), a strike shall be called on the batter for violation of 7-3-1. In (a), (b) and (c), if the pitcher legally delivers the ball, it shall be called a strike and the ball remains live. Thus, two strikes are called on the batter in (b). If the umpire judges the batter’s action to be a deliberate attempt to create a balk, he will penalize according to 3-3-1o.

As you can see, if the batter requests time and steps COMPLETELY outside the box, he will be penalized a strike. If the pitcher pitches, the pitch will also be called a strike.

As for the JUCO question, NCAA rules may differ in these regards.

If the batter requests time and doesn't get it, then smacks a homer, it's a homer. The rule is for batters that step out and never attempt to hit a pitch.
D dash_riprock1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by dw8man:


We had this situation yesterday during son's JUCO game. With a 3-2 count, the batter call for time. It was just as the pitcher was starting his motion, and it was loud enogh to be clearly heard in the stands. What he said was "Time ump". The pitcher continued but floated the ball to home as it appear he thought time was given. The batter never stepped back and the ump didn't give the time out. However, the pitch was called a ball and the batter took first. Was this correct?

Yes.
WelpeWelpe10+ posts
Penalty strike, no but the pitch shall still be called a strike.

Rule 6-2-4 says as follows:

quote:
1. If the pitcher, with a runner on base, stops or hesitates in his delivery because the batter steps out of the box (a) with one foot or (b) with both feet or (c) holds up his hand to request "Time," it shall not be a balk.

In (a) and (c), there is no penalty on either the batter or the pitcher. The umpire shall call "Time" and begin play anew. In (b), a strike shall be called on the batter for violation of 7-3-1.

In (a), (b) and (c), if the pitcher ­legally delivers the ball, it shall be called a strike and the ball remains live. Thus, two strikes are called on the batter in (b). If the umpire judges the batter's action to be a deliberate attempt to create a balk, he will penalize according to 3-3-1o.




Part a) in 6.2.4 Situation H comes close.

R1 is on third base. There are two outs and B4 has a count of 3 and 2. While F1 is in motion, B4 requests time-out, which is not granted, and steps out of the box with (a) one foot or (b) both feet. F1 delivers a pitch that sails over F2's head. B4 advances to first while R1 scores.

RULING: In (a) and (b), the run counts. B4 is charged with a strikeout and remains on first base. Since B4 did not intentionally try to cause F1 to balk or throw a wild pitch, the umpire shall not eject him. The ball remains live. (7-3-1 Penalty)
Tangents23Tangents2310+ posts
I guess I am a little slow.
Micheal S. Talyor said "If he steps back or asks for time and the pitcher pitches, it is a strike." and in (c), "if the pitcher legally delivers the ball, it shall be called a strike"
So, is there a difference between asking for time with your hand up and asking for time and stepping back with one foot?
M Matt1310,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Tangents23:
I guess I am a little slow.
Micheal S. Talyor said "If he steps back or asks for time and the pitcher pitches, it is a strike." and in (c), "if the pitcher legally delivers the ball, it shall be called a strike"
So, is there a difference between asking for time with your hand up and asking for time and stepping back with one foot?


If the ball is not pitched, no--"Time" is called and everyone resets.

If it is pitched, yes.
No foot leaves--pitch is called what it is.
One foot leaves--pitch is automatically a strike.
Two feet leave--pitch is automatically a strike and an additional penalty strike is assessed.

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