Defensive timeout

Why did the SS need a time out? Was he injured? Did his shoe come off? Or was he just making sure the offense couldn't advance if he made a bad throw to the pitcher?

Umpires are not there to help the defense. Make the throw, it's part of the game, and let's keep the game going. Instead of teaching him to ask for time, teach him to throw and the pitcher to catch.

Jimmy,

Just answer the question, has there been a rules change or was there always a rule against asking for a timeout or are you another one of the umpires that has decided to insert themselves into the game?

quote:

Originally posted by Gold Glove:
Jimmy,

Just answer the question, has there been a rules change or was there always a rule against asking for a timeout or are you another one of the umpires that has decided to insert themselves into the game?

There is no rule against asking for time. There is no rule requiring the umpire to grant it either.

He answered the question. It is not the umpire's job to make the defense's job easier. There is no rule allowing or preventing the calling of time. It is our job to maintain the flow of the game. Every time we call time, the PU has to put it back in play.
Why do you teach your fielder to come running in ans calling time? Most of the time it is for two purposes. Either to freeze runners or to prevent a bad throw to the pitcher. Nether is a reason to call time. It has nothing to do with an umpire inserting himself in a game, but instead doing his job in a professional manner. At that point you have no business trying to shop the call with the PU. We aren't trying to be jerks but trying to explain the answer to your question.

Dash and MST,

Great insight, and if the ump would have explained to me why he would not grant time out the way the way MST explained it I would have accepted it with no issues. But to continue to say "I will not grant you a time out" without an explanation was IMO unacceptable. And that's the very reason I asked PU for an explanation.

Why do I teach it, I guess because my HS coach (who won multiple state championships) and my college coach (who coached in the CWS four times) taught it to me. And it is taught to freeze runners, not prevent bad throws.

And by the way, Dash is the only one that answered my question; by telling me there was no rule against it.

How about the stealing of sign question?

No, there is no rule against it but as you move up the ladder it will get you hit at your next AB.
I also told you there was no rule against it.

quote:

Originally posted by Gold Glove:


Situation 2: Different game and different umps. We were given a team warning for stealing signs. Our runner on second would say first name for fast ball and last name for off speed. Ump says there is a HS rule forbidding this as it is unsportsmanlike. Again, I have been taught this since HS and was wondering if the HPU was correct.

IMO, an ump looking for trouble.

quote:

Originally posted by Gold Glove:
Jimmy,

Just answer the question, has there been a rules change or was there always a rule against asking for a timeout or are you another one of the umpires that has decided to insert themselves into the game?

You can request time out any time you want. Only the umpire decides if it is appropriate to grant one. In the scenario you posted, it was not appropriate. As you stated, you are only doing this to "freeze the runner." Umpires are not there to help you.

No, I don't insert myself in a game, I do my job properly. Specifically, umpires are there to see that neither team gains an advantage not intended by rule. You were doing just that.

Spome will say that you can do anyting not specifically prohibited by rule an it's not cheating. I believe that if you try to gain an advantage not intended by rule, you are cheating.

If you are coaching anything above small boy ball and umpires play along with your style of game, shame on them.

just to throw my .02 in the mix........I agree with Dash/MST/Jimmy........I do not call time at every request. Baseball is a game of continous action, and it is not part of the game for me to assist in freezing the runner........

Nor do I call time every time a batter gets in the box with his hand raised up.........I will not allow a batter to be pitched to until ready, but I keep the ball live as much as possible ........

Now your umpire may have been a bit testy in his response.......

Piaa,

Understood, don't necessarily agree but I see your logic. The funny thing with this BU is that he was keeping his water/gatorade near our dugout and we had been talking between innings and getting along great. When I called time I calmly walked over and asked for an explanation and I guess he thought I was questioning his.....judgement...authority...?

MST,

Sorry I missed your saying there was no rule, my fault. I guess I was stuck on you saying Jimmy answered my question.

Jimmy03,

Thanks for your insight. The biggest problem we coaches have, and I know I speak for many; is that we get told before every game which code we are playing by, Fed/HS, OBR, USSSA, etc. but often times there are those that choose which rules to enforce and which to not. We can't read your minds, only the rule book. And if it is in the book it should be enforced and if it's not it shouldn't be.
So do you feel stealing signs is cheating?

quote:

Originally posted by Gold Glove:
. We can't read your minds, only the rule book. And if it is in the book it should be enforced and if it's not it shouldn't be.
So do you feel stealing signs is cheating?

You don't need to read my mind...just the rule book and have some sense of honor and ethics.

You don't have the second part quite right. If it's in the rule book, we enforce it. If you come up with something that's not in the rule book, the rulebook provides the umpires with the authority to rule upon it.

Stealing signals? Well, FED tried a POE two years ago specifically aimed at discouraging the practice. Didn't work as planned, but they are on record of not approving of the practice.

At higher levels it's a practice of a certain type of coach and player that is traditionally dealt with by the opposing team. I stay out of it.

I'm told our high school coach caught an opposing player stealing signs. It was quickly stopped without throwing at the batter like some would do. Simple-- change the signs and make that runner look like a fool! I'd say it's nearly impossible to hit a fastball when your runner on second tells you it's going to be a curve ball!

Also, we had one today playing high school rules... overthrow at first base on a pickoff. Runner took second and the first baseman went after the ball. Right after he picked it up their coach was yelling to call for time! An umpire, IMO, would look STUPID granting it there!

quote:

CF fields ball and throws to SS who has been taught to run into the infield with arms raised and ask for time. FU would not grant him a timeout. I (Head Coach) called time and asked the FU why he will not grant a timeout. "I am not granting your player a timeout." I ask why,

"I (Head Coach) called time"
No you didn't. You requested time and it was granted by the umpire..

No change, this is the way it is, players, coaches "request" time, the umpire may or may not be able to, may or may not deem it necessary to grant it..
Simply teach your players; they may "request" time, but "it may not be granted". As others have said, there is no, zip, nada, nil reason to grant every request of "time".

Don't teach this any more, it could cost you a run or a base, if your guys think their gonna get it, and relax prematurely. Don't look to the umpire for help..

You may have had a grump who's feet were sore and he wanted to go home? He could have offered an explanation it seems, but then again he is not out there to offer a clinic and explain every thing he does or doesn't do. That is probably why he was short with you. Justified? No. Reality? Yes.
He/she, has trained and studied for years at his craft and probably assumes you have as well, he know's, time isn't granted at every whim, why don't you and your players? Pure speculation of course.

Mechanically speaking for an umpire, one does not just call time on a whim, one must first check all the runners, partner/s etc., generally reserved for the HP umpire with multiple runners, as he has the whole field in front of him.

In your sit. did R1 go to 3rd on the play? If so, and he's rounded 3RD and wants to attempt to advance or draw a throw, that's his job.

When on offense, throws can be a good thing..as an umpire throws can also be a good thing, outs. Your out voted 2-1, leave it in play..

quote:

The biggest problem we coaches have, and I know I speak for many; is that we get told before every game which code we are playing by, Fed/HS, OBR, USSSA, etc. but often times there are those that choose which rules to enforce and which to not. We can't read your minds, only the rule book. And if it is in the book it should be enforced and if it's not it shouldn't be.
So do you feel stealing signs is cheating?

This is also the biggest problem we as umpires have as well......often times we arrive on site at a tourney or game to be told we are playing under some rule set (usually FED) and then after a disputed call we are told we use some modifed rules........so it can be difficult and embarassing as well........

And admittedly there can be some "bleed over".......for example...this week I did 5 games......1 PONY League game...1 American Legion Game....1 FED 18U Travel League game, and a double header MSBL 30+ game.......sometimes you have to remind yourself under which code you are calling.......

I dont think stealing signs is cheating.........its a part of baseball........but like has been said above the good teams manage signs so that it is hard to do........the problem that comes from sign stealing is when youthful testoserone gets the best of them......

quote:

Piaa,

Understood, don't necessarily agree but I see your logic.

I'll give you an example of my thoughts.......runner on first...the batter hits a single and the R1 goes to third......the ball comes in, but the B1 is off of first trying to get into a rundown play so that the runner on third can score.......if I call time I would freeze the runner thus depriving the offensive team of their legal play........

I will not call time in most instances just to get the ball in........and when I do, it will be after I have had a chance to make sure all the action is relaxed........

The rule book is full of penalties for delaying the game (pitcher, batter, coaches). The ball should stay live unless the rules call for it to be dead or there is some other good reason to kill it.

quote:

Originally posted by Gold Glove:
Dash and MST,

Great insight, and if the ump would have explained to me why he would not grant time out the way the way MST explained it I would have accepted it with no issues. But to continue to say "I will not grant you a time out" without an explanation was IMO unacceptable.

If a coach calmly asks me a question at an appropriate time, I will calmly answer it, and I believe most officials will also. However, most coaches who believe that the umpire is wrong will not act calmly in that sich, they then risk putting the official on the "defensive", and possibly not getting an "elaborate" answer. Personally, I prefer to politely answer in 7 words or less. We know that coaches will take just one word, looking for a chink of weakness to try an exploit to help their team.

So, think back carefully. How did you approach the umpire?
I regards to OP, when the defense asks for time, I always ask why? They usually become embarrassed, look down and sheepishly say "so I dont overthrow my pitcher". No, I dont grant time then.