Definition Please

Initial sign of interest to me doesn't have any importance. It would have to be a personal phone call after seeing a player play and the coach saying we like you a lot. Doesn't always equate to an offer will come.

Boy that is a tough question TR. Some schools send out tons of letters , emails etc and wait to see who responds. That is followed up by an invite to one of their camps. Basically they are fishing to see who bites and then they reel them in for nice fee at the camp. Others only send out letters , emails to the players they are seriously looking at and interested in. So it would depend on the program and the way they do business wether this is actually initial contact or not.

Any communication initiated by coaching staff which is not pro forma. Phone call, text message, e-mail provided it is not a blast e-mail. Even a form letter if supplemented by hand writing by coach could be considered "interest" - if coach indicates he has specific interest in player because of some type of exposure.

While this type of contact may not lead to $, admission or place on a team, it feels good and can be used as a "teaching moment" for any player and family going through the process.

I was told if the coach sent you his cell phone number or asked for a copy of your transcripts that was a good sign.

TR very good topic....we are struggling with that right now....we have numerous contacts ranging from form letters to Hand written notes, letters with Handwritten comments to emails that are very detailed about the times and places they have seen our son play, offers to visit if we are in in the area....looking forward to what other people have to say.

Not sure where everyone stands, but this issue seems to be the plight of many players who are rising seniors who have yet to get serious DII or D1 attention. Agree wholeheartedly that you need to be seen to receive interest; however, we are invites from coaches to attend camps in OCT/NOV alone that would equate to 8 long weekends and over $2000 in showcase expense.
We have received what I would characterize as legitimate interest from a few select DIII's and our son likes them all so we are getting more comfortable. To be honest, most of these showcases have felt like casting calls for extras, not legitimate offers of interest...not just for my son, but most.
This is obviously necessary to keep this game special at the highest levels; however, that doesn't make this process friendly for people who are in it. This fact is very obvious as I read the mood of postings from Senior parents vs. those of you with cons fortunate and talented enough to have made it through this curtain.....Lord grant us all strength!
As I have said to all of you several times since joining this site, you should be proud of your efforts here as they are not only extremely helpful when constructive, but very therapeutic for many of us watching our kids suffer this process.
Have a great weekend all!

This started as "initial sign of interest" thread. I understand why it may quickly slide into "how do we read the tea leaves."

After initial contact was made, the next sign that I thought showed there was real interest was a request for transcript. I found coaches were pretty honest about where they thought my son stood.

Until you get a commitment from a coach, you should be wary of what coaches say and do. Most coaches are very good at sounding sincere and saying things that keep you on the hook. Coaches that want your son move very quickly to tie you up.
This doesn't make them bad people but just doing what they have to to field the best team they can. They know exactly what parents and players are going through. They know that they have to use promising sounding phrases like Your son has a chance to be a starter or contribute his 1st year etc. People read way too much into what a coach says so you have to be skeptical. The better a coach is at talking the talk the better they often do at recruiting.

Its going to be different for every player and its going to range from a little bit different , to alot different for each program. If a coach sees a player and there is no doubt in his mind they want the player they are going to move differently in the process. They are going to make contact , ask for transcripts , seek out a visit etc. They are going to make an offer. If they are interested but want to see the player again , they are interested but have another player in line they value more , they are going to let you know they are interested , attempt to find out what your interest level in them is , and attempt to keep you on the hook as long as they need to. You may be asked for transcripts and asked to visit as well so they can see if your worth keeping on the hook to them. This situation will move in one of three directions depending on several factors. They will either attempt to keep you in a holding pattern while they see if they can land that other player or players. They will become cold and distant because they landed that other player or players. Or they will start to heat things up with more and contact and invites to visit etc because you are the choice.

So any kind of contact is positive but can mean different things depending on who is contacting you and how they do business. Continued contact is positive but how positive again depends on who is recruiting you and how they recruit. And invitations to make a visit , requests for transcripts can mean they want to meet you and see what you are all about. They want to make sure you can get in school. They want to clear the path to make an offer. Or this is just another attempt to keep you on the hook for the time being.

Nothing is set in stone until they actually make you an offer. And how quickly that happens will be determined by how sure they are they want you. And sometimes that means they have to wait to see if that other guy or other guys like them or not. If there is no doubt in their minds you will know it. If there is doubt then you will know by the fact the offer has not come as of yet.

Here is where the frustration comes in for people. The player stops getting indications of interest. He wants there to be interest. And he can not get information that will confirm or deny their intentions. "I got several emails , letters , request for transcripts from So and So but I have not heard anything in quite awhile." This happens frequently and creates a sense of panic for some. In some cases after not hearing anything for months the coach calls and offers. In some cases you never hear from them again. And in some cases you get a call out of the blue putting you back on the hook because the other guys fell through and they are back at it once again. And then the phone never rings because someone else they called they wanted more comes back into the picture.

The scenarios are endless. If you are a schools top choice you will know it. If your not thats ok many are not the first choice. Just understand that these coaches have been at this a long time and are experts at this process. For most this is the first time and the only time they will be at this. Its an exciting time when a kid gets that first email , first letter , first phone call , first text message ,etc etc. Just keep it in perspective and dont get to high or too low depending on how its going. When the program really wants your son you WILL know it because they will make it clear. If they are not sure but want to have you on their LIST you will know that as well.

Sometimes schools are able to get a kid for much less scholley money or even as a walk on because the family / player begin to panic. Or they take an offer because they were offered and could have found a much better fit if they were more patient. The key is not to worry about what is going on with other peoples kids. Every player is different and every situation is different.

A. Reality check is if you are a HS Sr (2010 HS graduates), and have not heard from a DI College Coach yet, there is pretty good reason to believe a DI NLI offer for signing in November is NOT going to happen.

B. Amazingly enough, I am also hearing (and reading) HS Jrs (i.e. 2011 HS graduates) are stating they are providing a verbal committment to play baseball at the college of choice.

Just the other day, over a pizza and adult beverages, a small group of knowledgeable ol' timers came with a word to describe 'B'.
That word is 'puffer'.

quote:

Just keep it in perspective and dont get to high or too low depending on how its going. When the program really wants your son you WILL know it because they will make it clear. If they are not sure but want to have you on their LIST you will know that as well.

So now I need a definition-- what is a "puffer"?

Actually, Bear, I would appreciate your serious comments on verbal offers/acceptances and when is a desireable time to accept them.

From your above comments, I think you know that many 2010 graduates are already verbally committed. I gather that you think that no 2011 should commit now.

When do you think a 2011 should commit?

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
What is your definition of "initial sign of interest" by a college?

Initial sign of interest would be of course the questionaire, camp invite, but could be a phone call after July 1, or showing up to watch you play.

I agree with CM, all programs go about their business differently. Respond to all inquiries, if you are interested, if they are interested they will let you know.

TPM


Honestly and truly do you really consider a camp invite" an initial sign of interest???

I know that I don't!!!

Why couldn't an invite to camp be for interest in a player?

You asked a question, I gave an opinion on an answer.

When you have an interest in a player, do you ask them to come for tryouts?

Not all schools have huge budgets to attend national tournies to watch players they might be interested in.

FWIW, in 2002 (I think) son received a camp invite to Clemson. My understanding was that they were very interested and wanted to see him pitch, however, just too far for us to travel.
So yes, one might consider some camp invites are for interest.

TPM

Here we go again---since debating with you always seems to get me in trouble with the moderating panel I will take it no further I will close with this--Tryouts?--are they allowed with D-I programs ?
As fort camps they are what they are in each individuals mind--trust me a camp invite is not necessarily "pure interest"

Thank you

TR,
You invited the debate, I didn't say that a camp was a tryout, I asked you if you invited players to tryout for College Select. How are some coaches supposed to meet or watch players if they can't get to them?

You can't tell me that some players are invited to camps for no interest. I know some players who were asked and attended camps and got offers that weekend.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
What is your definition of "initial sign of interest" by a college?

You didn't ask for pure interest, you asked for initial sign of interest.

While I agree camps are mostly for fund raising, they can be used for other purposes as well.

I thought it was "Real Interest" as opposed to beating the bushes. Real interest comes from direct knowledge about the player. Generally doesn't include invites to camps. Contact after a camp may show real interest.

The question asked was what was the definition of initial interest.

Here's my breakdown based on my opinion of what interest may mean:
Initial interest: can be anything, this is the beginning stage of the recruiting process for most, could be a questionaire, a current athletic handbook or team info in a weekly letter, asking player to call coach, asking for a DVD, asking for email address, asking you to make an unofficial visit, junior day or a camp invite (all on your dime)as the coach cannot call you or talk to you face to face off of his turf or until you are a senior in HS.

Real interest: phone call weekly after July 1, asking for schedule, watching a player at a showcase or tourney, sending out scouts to report on a player a few times, asking for transcripts, email, hand written letter (but this could include some other things under initial interest depending upon where the player is in HS and where he has been seen or ranked).

Serious interest: official visit followed by offer, or just an up front offer.

For some it comes in different stages, the idea is to hope that serious interest becomes real, then serious, coaches use all types of ways to show all types of interest and again as Coach May has said, all programs do things differently. FWIW, FSU, will want you to attend their camp, as MM doesn't travel too far from home. Lot depends on how aggressive the recruiter is also. Some just zero in on being serious, some take their time. This depends alot on where the player falls in being ranked. I am sure most top prospects get more real and serious interest right from the get go but this is not the rule for everyone.

You will know the difference between initial interest, real interest and serious interest when all is said and done.

JMO.

quote:

Originally posted by bigboy17:
Not sure where everyone stands, but this issue seems to be the plight of many players who are rising seniors who have yet to get serious DII or D1 attention. Agree wholeheartedly that you need to be seen to receive interest; however, we are invites from coaches to attend camps in OCT/NOV alone that would equate to 8 long weekends and over $2000 in showcase expense.
We have received what I would characterize as legitimate interest from a few select DIII's and our son likes them all so we are getting more comfortable. To be honest, most of these showcases have felt like casting calls for extras, not legitimate offers of interest...not just for my son, but most.
This is obviously necessary to keep this game special at the highest levels; however, that doesn't make this process friendly for people who are in it. This fact is very obvious as I read the mood of postings from Senior parents vs. those of you with cons fortunate and talented enough to have made it through this curtain.....Lord grant us all strength!
As I have said to all of you several times since joining this site, you should be proud of your efforts here as they are not only extremely helpful when constructive, but very therapeutic for many of us watching our kids suffer this process.
Have a great weekend all!

As far as camps and showcases, there can be a difference. The reputation of the camp, who runs it is very important, some give very good instruction as well as keep their eyes open for potential players, others may just be cattle calls, too many and not enough people to be helpful, my son worked at his college for camp and was in charge of those the staff was interested in (older players), as well as the camp for younger players and had to stay with them until lights out (week long summer camp vs. 2 day winter camp), be aware that there are camps for everyone and camps for pitchers, catchers as well as older players. The players interest towards a program should be of importance as well. What other schools that will attend will be helpful in determining if it is worth it.
My son attended one camp, we preferred spending money for tournaments where many coaches attend and a very strong summer travel program.
The one camp son attended was very beneficial in the recruiting process, close to home (to avoid over night) and very inexpensive. If you let this process become over bearing it will become over bearing, if you plan accordingly, ask questions in advance (call them to see if they know who your son is, who will be there, etc.). You will figure it out, eventually.

Camps absolutely can be an important sign of interest -- initial or otherwise. I realize it is not the same at each school or for every player, but I know lots of guys who have been recruited and offered based on a performance at a camp on campus. It can and does happen all the time. I will also add that an invitation to a camp in late August can be particularly meaningful.

This is not speculation on my part. I have seen it many times and at schools in the Pac 10, the ACC, the Big East and the Big 12.

TPM has it right on this one.

quote:

Originally posted by 3FingeredGlove:
Actually, Bear, I would appreciate your serious comments on verbal offers/acceptances and when is a desireable time to accept them.

When do you think a 2011 should commit?

I will look forward to swapping emails with you. My email is in the public profile. Not able to locate yours (and that is probably a good idea).

OBTW: When is the last time your drove by Artichoke Joe's in San Bruno? And have they continue to apply the $1.00 commission per hand? (Sometime ago, my car had this magnet on it when travelling south on Rt 101. It somehow exited at I-380 and then got off at San Mateo Ave. And after a few hours of pain, found myself at the Pioneer Saloon in Woodside.

I too am interested in what a "puffer" is???

BTW, 2 kids from my sons travel team (2011s) verbally committed last week to a D1 program that was in the CWS this past year. So there's no doubt that the "cream of the crop" 2011s are already getting offers. That's interest.

For our older son "initial interest" was a phone call from the coach after attending a junior college tryout. For the younger one "initial interest" was a text from his summer coach that "Coach Soandso from _________ wants you to call him. Here is his number."