What is a good delivery time to the plate when measured from the stretch. How long from the time from first movement to ball out of the hand? Great, good, ok, poor?
Original Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
Anything 1.2 and below is good. 1.3+ and we are off to the races with a 2.0 catcher. If your catcher is 2.1+, good luck.
Goosegg -- check out his artilce for some good incites:
http://www.nationalpitching.ne...-8683625215D0&cft=wb
http://www.nationalpitching.ne...-8683625215D0&cft=wb
L or R?
It's more than just 1.2.( RHP'S) Hold tempo becomes a factor also, both long & short so you do not become predictable. When you become predictable, no matter how quick you are, base stealers can time your delivery & leave early. This takes a concerted effort in pens to get used to shorter & longer holds before pitching. This is especially true for long holds which most pitchers are uncomfortable executing.
The majority of your big pitches in games are going to be made from the stretch so that delivery has to be as efficient as your windup delivery(consistency of stuff & location).Most pitchers have 3 deliveries.A windup delivery, a stretch delivery for non running situations, & a stretch delivery for running situations( i.e. slide step). The problem with this is the slide step is usually the worst of the 3 deliveries & you have to guess right relative to the runner running or not.My suggestion is for young pitchers(all pitchers for that matter) to develop their stretch delivery before they develop thheir windup delivery & every stretch delivery is 1.2 or better.
Picks/step offs are the final piece of the puzzle in stopping the running game. In general picks are over used & destroy the tempo of the game & lead to throwing erors. If you are efficient to the plate & can vary your delivery tempo, you will not need to pick as frequently. I believe that every time you pick to 1st, you are trying to pick the runner off. There are occassions when you pick, that your main purpose is to see if the hitter is bunting, but a long hold & an 'A' pick will get you that information as well.(This does not necessarily apply to LHP'S)
JW
The majority of your big pitches in games are going to be made from the stretch so that delivery has to be as efficient as your windup delivery(consistency of stuff & location).Most pitchers have 3 deliveries.A windup delivery, a stretch delivery for non running situations, & a stretch delivery for running situations( i.e. slide step). The problem with this is the slide step is usually the worst of the 3 deliveries & you have to guess right relative to the runner running or not.My suggestion is for young pitchers(all pitchers for that matter) to develop their stretch delivery before they develop thheir windup delivery & every stretch delivery is 1.2 or better.
Picks/step offs are the final piece of the puzzle in stopping the running game. In general picks are over used & destroy the tempo of the game & lead to throwing erors. If you are efficient to the plate & can vary your delivery tempo, you will not need to pick as frequently. I believe that every time you pick to 1st, you are trying to pick the runner off. There are occassions when you pick, that your main purpose is to see if the hitter is bunting, but a long hold & an 'A' pick will get you that information as well.(This does not necessarily apply to LHP'S)
JW
Great post Jerry. You can be very quick to the plate but if you are predictable the runner will off set that with a great jump off of you. You can be slower to the plate but if you are not predictable you can off set that by forcing the runner to be honest in his jump.
The best scenario is to be quick to the plate and unpredictable. But never compromise your ability to deliver the baseball by trying to be too quick to the plate. Your first job is to pitch.
The best scenario is to be quick to the plate and unpredictable. But never compromise your ability to deliver the baseball by trying to be too quick to the plate. Your first job is to pitch.
Dang I wish you were still at Cal Poly SLO!
quote:The best scenario is to be quick to the plate and unpredictable. But never compromise your ability to deliver the baseball by trying to be too quick to the plate. Your first job is to pitch.
Can you imagine what it would do to Lincecum's delivery?
I guess my initial post should have been more specific.
LHP, varying looks and "holds" (timing/rhythm) to the plate, good (not great) pick-off moves, and multiple types of pick off moves, has both leg lift and slide step, can throw any of three pitches (fb, change, slider) from stretch.
What is a great, good, ok, poor release time measured from 1st movement to ball out of hand?
LHP, varying looks and "holds" (timing/rhythm) to the plate, good (not great) pick-off moves, and multiple types of pick off moves, has both leg lift and slide step, can throw any of three pitches (fb, change, slider) from stretch.
What is a great, good, ok, poor release time measured from 1st movement to ball out of hand?
For LHP'S, the only break time that matters is the break time on his slide step.( Which is more of a knee to knee scissors action 6 cleat move)THAT needs to be in the 1.2 range to be effective.When you use your knee lift move, it is a guessing game.If you guess wrong & the runner is running on your 1st move, he is most likely going to be safe especially if you pick insted of pitch & your pick is slow.
I would be more concerned with the time it takes you to pick to 1st on the lift move. If you are much over 1.5 the runner will beat the throw to 2nd by your 1st baseman.( Obviously dependent on the runners speed & the 1st baseman's catch, transfer & throw skills)If you mix in a leg lift & are slow to 1st, it's important to have a step off move & a lower "anti 1st move steal move."
There is absolutely no reason why every LHP does not have an excellent pick move.(Pitchers have a lot of down time to work on stuff like this)
1. Head starting in same place @ start of pick & pitch.
2. Being able to throw to 1B while looking @ home.
3. Stride down 45 degree line.
4. Ball passing pitcher's head before being turned over & thrown to 1B.
Combine that with a good step off move & an average anti 1st move steal move & you are on the offensive instead of defensive.
This is not just about the running game. Put the runner on 1B on the defensive & you'll turn more DP's & keep the runners off your middle infielders & fewer runners will score from 1B on extra base hits.
Want to make it simple( Take the path of least resistance)go all slide step or modified slide step.Just make sure that location & quality of stuff does not suffer.
JW
I would be more concerned with the time it takes you to pick to 1st on the lift move. If you are much over 1.5 the runner will beat the throw to 2nd by your 1st baseman.( Obviously dependent on the runners speed & the 1st baseman's catch, transfer & throw skills)If you mix in a leg lift & are slow to 1st, it's important to have a step off move & a lower "anti 1st move steal move."
There is absolutely no reason why every LHP does not have an excellent pick move.(Pitchers have a lot of down time to work on stuff like this)
1. Head starting in same place @ start of pick & pitch.
2. Being able to throw to 1B while looking @ home.
3. Stride down 45 degree line.
4. Ball passing pitcher's head before being turned over & thrown to 1B.
Combine that with a good step off move & an average anti 1st move steal move & you are on the offensive instead of defensive.
This is not just about the running game. Put the runner on 1B on the defensive & you'll turn more DP's & keep the runners off your middle infielders & fewer runners will score from 1B on extra base hits.
Want to make it simple( Take the path of least resistance)go all slide step or modified slide step.Just make sure that location & quality of stuff does not suffer.
JW
Jerry, great advice as usual. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this stuff.
I wrote an [URL=http:// bit.ly/caTbWP]article[/URL] not too long ago about holding base runners on that might help you. Having a quick motion to the plate with runners on base is important but it is something you can worry a little less about if you become better at reading runners. There a plenty of ways to keep them from swiping a bag other than just having a quick move to home.
Personally I am torn about having a quick move versus pitching effectively. My son has a good quick move to home- usually about 8/10ths of a second from first movement of leg to ball out of hand. Hardly anyone steals on him but he gives up some velocity and control in so doing. It happens so quick that often times it catches the batter off guard the first time. I haven't kept stats on it but it seems a toss-up on if it's better to keep the runner from trying to steal versus going after the hitter with quality stuff. I think it's better to slow down a little and instead fire more over to first and varry timing going to home and different leg kicks also.
I'd love to see a .8 to the plate. I've never recorded one that low.
quote:Originally posted by Gingerbread Man:
Personally I am torn about having a quick move versus pitching effectively. My son has a good quick move to home- usually about 8/10ths of a second from first movement of leg to ball out of hand. Hardly anyone steals on him but he gives up some velocity and control in so doing. It happens so quick that often times it catches the batter off guard the first time. I haven't kept stats on it but it seems a toss-up on if it's better to keep the runner from trying to steal versus going after the hitter with quality stuff. I think it's better to slow down a little and instead fire more over to first and varry timing going to home and different leg kicks also.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but usually this measurement is from 1st movement till the ball hits the catcher's glove. GBM, I believe your measurement is a little out of context.
I'd say all of this also depends on who you are facing. You can compare an adolescent's times all you want to MLB times, but the fact is, most of the runners at the HS age are not nearly as fast as the MLB runners (at least those who are going to steal). I think it is important for a pitcher to have a first movement to home time that takes into consideration the catchers pop time plus the actual runner's 1st to 2nd time. If on average, a HS runner steals 2nd in 3.5 seconds, and your catcher has a pop time of 2.0, you need to be 1.4 or less to home in order to have a chance.
That's why you see a lot of 1st base coaches out there with a stop watch. They know the catcher's pop time, and they know how quick their runner can get to 2nd. They are timing the pitcher to see if the runner can make it. Of course, it all depends on the jump they get as well.
And BTW GBM, I agree with you in that a pitcher should not sacrifice quality of pitches in order to quicken their delivery to the plate. There are numerous MLB pitchers who are very slow to the plate because they would rather focus on the batter. Lincecum and Tommy Hansen are two of them.
That's why you see a lot of 1st base coaches out there with a stop watch. They know the catcher's pop time, and they know how quick their runner can get to 2nd. They are timing the pitcher to see if the runner can make it. Of course, it all depends on the jump they get as well.
And BTW GBM, I agree with you in that a pitcher should not sacrifice quality of pitches in order to quicken their delivery to the plate. There are numerous MLB pitchers who are very slow to the plate because they would rather focus on the batter. Lincecum and Tommy Hansen are two of them.
