True showcase teams often have large rosters. Some larger than 17. Showcase teams will put players in their primary position for a few innings and swap them out with another player. Same goes for at bats. Showcase teams are not meant to really focus on developing players and getting them maximum playing time. They are for showcasing their players. If that's not what you were expecting, or what you are looking for this summer, you may want to talk to the organization to have your son moved to another roster or another team all together. Of those 17, how many are pitchers only?
For what it's worth, my sons showcase team has 18 players. They play 9 inning games and will play all summer at various locations. Every player will see the field and get a couple of at bats each game. It's up to the players to perform with the few innings they get. Others on the bench deserve their time on the field, in front of scouts too.
Last but not least. You are from Chicago and posting in there North Carolina forum. So if your goal is to bash a Chicago organization, it probably isn't getting a whole lot of tracktion here.
Originally Posted by jamesb:
So you think $2000/player is acceptable? Like I said, I had a 13U and 14U travel team. The most any of these teams should be charging is 1000/player. 2000/player is excessive in my opinion.
IMO 2k is solid in the middle of the road, it depends somewhat on amount of practice time and if that is included with the cost.
Is 17 on a roster to many? I think it depends how many pitcher only kids they have.
you may or may not be in a bad spot, i agree you should have asked some questions before you agreed to play but it is not always black and white.
Originally Posted by jamesb:
RJM, I am mad at myself, but also JUSTIFIABLY at the team as well, as they never told me they were going to have 17 players on the roster. So you think $2000/player is acceptable? Like I said, I had a 13U and 14U travel team. The most any of these teams should be charging is 1000/player. 2000/player is excessive in my opinion.You must be one of these high priced travel team owners as you are defending them so much.
Senior summer my sons travel showcase team had 28 on roster. Everyone played and most everyone got some type of college scholarship. That was 10 years ago, and the cost was 2500-3000 BACK THEN.
Not really sure what your problem is.
Originally Posted by TPM:
Originally Posted by jamesb:
RJM, I am mad at myself, but also JUSTIFIABLY at the team as well, as they never told me they were going to have 17 players on the roster. So you think $2000/player is acceptable? Like I said, I had a 13U and 14U travel team. The most any of these teams should be charging is 1000/player. 2000/player is excessive in my opinion.You must be one of these high priced travel team owners as you are defending them so much.
Senior summer my sons travel showcase team had 28 on roster. Everyone played and most everyone got some type of college scholarship. That was 10 years ago, and the cost was 2500-3000 BACK THEN.
Not really sure what your problem is.
James - Responded to your PM...
I didn't see this before, but $2K is about right for HS travel ball around here. Did that include uni"s? Our fees were very similar. Just a little less and that included indoor practice facilities and cages in the winter, fall baseball, some instruction and uni's (3 shirts, 2 pants per kid). We also spend an addition $200 or so for a private showcase at the end of the seasons, and a couple hundred for a camp but those are optional expenses.
$2000 is, from my experience, standard as to what a good showcase team costs. Considering that most quality tournaments range from $850-$1500 that fee is not that far out of whack. Also, there is a difference between a travel team and a showcase team. Travel teams generally start after little league and play local events that cost less to register for. They try to play kids equally and are more winning oriented. Showcase teams typically are for for 16U-17U that are supposed to play at higher level tourneys in front of scouts, college coaches. Kids playing time depends on what kids the scouts are there to see. Of course these days more and more 13-17 yr old teams label themselves "showcase" but are really just travel teams and there in lie the problem. Parents just need to educate themselves and do more research as to what they are getting themselves into. Just bc a team labels themselves "elite" or "showcase" doesn't mean that they are. And just bc your kid was a stud in little league and had some success at 13 doesn't mean that parents should blindly spend $ on an elite/showcase team.
Originally Posted by TPM:
wanttoknow,
I am not here to argue, but I think that you should read over your posts. Sounds like sour grapes, JMO.
That big something or other showcase is the PG Woodbat Tournament, not being able to name that event somehow tells me that you are not familiar with some of the more important venues in college recruiting and scouting. PGStaff is the owner and founder of Perfect Game. He really is telling you like it is, really.
Tournaments all over the country cost teams about the amount you mentioned, why do you suppose that is? Permits? Umpires? Insurance? Salary? Also we have played tournaments at all times, early morning, in the rain, in the heat, the cold and one time about around 12am due to rain delay. Never even thought of asking for money back, were those times not suitable for you?
350 dollars for a college showcase camp? What results did you get from that camp? You do understand that these programs run these camps to make money for their programs, not to find recruits.
The players last name is Hamilton, and everyone who knows and follows baseball knows who Josh Hamilton is.
The dirtbags ripped you off and so did another organization? Sounds like if you do not get the results that YOU are looking for you demand your money back
Maybe you should attend a PG showcase, then you can get an honest evaluation of your son and then you are able to know where is the best place to spend your money. Be prepared, they are expensive.
Try to expand your horizons past the ACC and NC. This would be in your sons best interests, I think.
Do some research on this site, which by the way has thousands and thousands of members, right now there are almost 200 reading at almost 2am (insomnia night). This site will help you to understand, I think that this will help you to understand teh recruiting process and how to spend your money wisely.
I live in FL and my son attended an out of state ACC program, so understand that you do not have to live in the same state to be recruited by an out of state program.
I am a mom (thank you keewart) and I think that you are too.
My son plays professional baseball.
Legion may be a great option.
Good luck!
TPM,
Its been a long while since I have visited this forum, since June 2013 I believe. I returned today just to unsubscribe because I am still receiving emails from this forum when someone posts a comment to this thread. However, I did scan through the comments just out of curiosity. I don't believe I saw your response to my last post back in 2013 or I would have seen my response back to you. I included your response to refresh your memory.
Even though its been 2 years, I feel strong enough to make one last comment about the subject of this thread, but more specifically, to your remarks to me back in June 2013. You made a lot of assumptions about me in your posts that I unfortunately feel the need to rectify. I hate this about me, but I care what people think of me, whether its over the internet or in person. My posts back in June 2013 were not "sour grapes" as you commented. Its crazy, but people always think when someone posts something different from what they think, they are "sour grapes". Myself and most of the others that posted their negative experiences with travel ball teams were doing just that, posting our negative experiences. And another crazy thing, people that have not had negative experience with travel ball teams think those that have is because their sons suck at baseball. Even though you stated you were "not here to argue", you were here to ridicule. Your remarks were very condescending.
You insinuated that I was not familiar with some of the more important venues in college recruiting and scouting because I could not name the PG Wood Bat Tournament. Well, at what point are we all suppose to know these things? Maybe we were not at that point yet. See, here lies the problem. Not everyone wants or cares if their son is ever recruited to play college ball. Not everyone thinks their son is going to be the next best thing in baseball. Speaking for myself, I was simply posting about my family's negative experience with a travel/showcase team. And I do not think negatively of PGStaff, I do not believe PG is involved in this scam.
Now on to your schooling of me regarding the cost of tournaments. I am well aware of the costs of tournaments. As I stated in earlier posts, my husband created, managed, and coached a travel ball team for 5 years. We know what it costs to hold tournaments as well as we have organized and managed multiple tournaments. I actually grew up working tournaments as my father was always sponsoring all kinds of tournaments including semi-pro baseball tournaments. He loved baseball but was not very athletic so he got his fix by providing the funds for others to play. The only reason we got involved with a travel ball team was because my husband could no longer dedicate the time necessary to coach and manage a team. And just so you know, we have played tournaments at all times and in many undesirable conditions. We've played in sleet and 100 degree heat. And, while playing in a tournament held at ASU, we played in the early morning mountain fog. And yes, we have played into the early morning hours due to rain delays and because of extra inning games. These games are my best memories of playing baseball. Again, you are missing the point. And to school you a little bit since your son must not have ever been on the "D" team, when playing for these teams that exist only to provide funding for their A team, when it rains, the teams don't always play in the rain because they are usually cancelled, not worth the cost of umpires I guess. That causes most to want their money back. Your condescending remarks about times not being suitable for me provides no substance to this thread's purpose.
I am well aware that colleges hold camps to help fund their programs. I'm all for that. College baseball does not get the same level of funding as basketball and football. Maybe its different where you are, but colleges also have "elite" camps, several names are used, and they use these camps for recruiting. They actually invite players. Why are you asking what results I got? Are you wanting to hear that they told my son he was not D1 material?
Again you want to portray me as someone who does not know baseball because I could not remember Josh Hamilton's last name and by stating that "everyone who knows and follows baseball knows who Josh Hamilton is". I "follow" professional baseball through which ever team I am interested in. As I've said, my dad was a huge baseball fan. I watched many Atlanta Braves games with my dad. We made many trips to Atlanta to see them play throughout the 1980s. He passed away in 1993 after battling cancer for a few years. While pursuing my career and tending to children, I no longer had time to watch professional baseball or read tabloids while sitting around the pool, which is how some people know who Josh Hamilton is. In the last 10 years, I spent more time listening to my husband teach kids how to keep their bat in the strike zone longer, when to get that secondary lead off 1st base, and learning how to read a pitcher because some will forecast the type of pitch they are about to throw. But maybe that's not "following" baseball.
You again make this thread personal by saying things like if I don't get the results I want I demand my money back. Again, you're making the worst kind of assumptions about someone and something you do not know anything about. This kind of thing happens when you make a debate personal. My son did not play for the dirtbags nor did he ever tryout for them. We were ripped off by a different showcase team. Only one team ripped us off since you are counting. Wanting my money back had nothing to do with not getting the results I wanted. We were lied to plain and simple. There was no contract or fine print to read. We had no aspirations for our son to be recruited by playing with this team. Our son was just a rising 9th grader. We put our son on this team because my husband could no longer coach a team. Our son did not tryout for this team either. He was approached by the team's owner at one of the last tournaments my husband coached. Lets just say we were told our son would get plenty of playing time at multiple positions. That's all we were looking for. We were told many lies as were other parents. I asked for my money back before the first game the team played was over.
We didn't need to attend a PG showcase to get an honest evaluation of our son. Our son was getting lessons from a sometimes Triple A/sometimes MLB player during his off seasons. We just wanted our son to play ball and to play with and against competitive ball players. You can't always get that in the local little league.
You seemed to be focused on my lack of knowledge of the recruiting process, or your perception that I lacked knowledge. I agree this site has some very knowledgeable people and who know how to debate an issue without personal insults. You keep insinuating that we needed someone to tell us that our son was not D1 material so that we would not spend money on showcase teams. You ASSUME that since I said we were ripped off by a showcase team, that our son was not as good as we wanted or thought him to be. We simply wanted our son to perform at his potential, not just at baseball, put anything and everything he involved himself with, especially academics. We are not the parents you are thinking we are. And if I needed help with recruiting, we had what we needed.
Trust me, even my pea brain knows you can be recruited to play for a team outside your home state or your home state NCAA league. I think pretty much everyone knows that.
OK so what happened with my son? Drum role please...... He went on to play for a showcase team in Va during his sophomore and Junior year of high school. Its coach was an assistant coach at a private D3 school. We paid $650 which included 2 complete uniforms. It also included great coaching and mentoring!!!! The team was capped off at 15 players with mostly pitchers sitting on the bench. My son was 10th (academically) in a class of over 500. He was bound for engineering of some sort. He was a 4 year starter (only freshmen to make Varsity) during his high school BB career. He was miserable that year because he was not with his buddies on JV. See, our son did not eat, sleep, and sh*t ball. He loved baseball but mainly because he loves the sport and because he loved playing with his friends who had all been together since elementary grades. We were approached by a coach from a small D1 school during a showcase tournament. Bottom line, our son could have played D3 or possible D2 ball. He could have gone to a JC just so he could continue to play BB. But that is not what he wanted. He is attending an out of state school that has one of the top engineering programs in the country. He left his baseball shoes on his high school BB field and never looked back. He is just happy that he still gets together with those same friends when they all come home for summers and holidays.
Now, that is what we as parents were looking for, for our son. Yes, we complained about anything that was not on the up and up or things that kept our son from achieving his potential. You just have to get over the fact that not all kids playing baseball actually want to be a MLB player. As I said, we know a MLB player and it isn't always fun. And don't assume that someone on this post that complains about a travel ball team has a son that isn't all that good of a ball player. And for the rest of the folks on this thread, there are travel ball team owners out there that will put a "spin" on what they are offering. There is no fine print, only a mom and/or dad taking a man for his word.
Congrats on your son playing "professional baseball". If that is what your son wanted then he succeeded. My son isn't playing professional ball, but I consider him to be just as successful as your son.
Take Care!
There's life after baseball!
Originally Posted by jamesb:
RJM, I am mad at myself, but also JUSTIFIABLY at the team as well, as they never told me they were going to have 17 players on the roster. So you think $2000/player is acceptable? Like I said, I had a 13U and 14U travel team. The most any of these teams should be charging is 1000/player. 2000/player is excessive in my opinion.You must be one of these high priced travel team owners as you are defending them so much.
There's no such thing as an excessive price for travel ball. It's part of the free market system. The cost is what the market is willing to bear. What you charged when you ran a team is irrelevant. I ran 13u, 14u and 16u (for fifteen year olds) teams for $500 for ten tournaments.
A fifteen year year doesn't need to showcase unless he's on the verge of becoming one of the jaw dropping, top shelf, 1% studs. If your son is a D1 prospect chances are teams will be coming to him. My son played on a subsidized showcase team and a free scout team.
The problem is you may not have a business plan. You're helping spaghetti off the wall to see what sticks. Make a plan. It may be hard for a 15yo. You may have to wait a year To properly evaluate his college potential.
Go watch college games at each level in person. Make an honest assessment of your son. Make a list of colleges conferences he could compete (not the ones you dream about). From those conferences decide which schools are an academic, social and cultural fit. Write to the coaches. Ask how to get in front of them. Then create a plan that includes the right showcases and team.
Large rosters on showcase teams is normal. By then some players are pitchers only. My son's team had either regulars and four part time pitchers for longer tournaments.
Originally Posted by wanttoknow:
Originally Posted by TPM:
wanttoknow,
I am not here to argue, but I think that you should read over your posts. Sounds like sour grapes, JMO.
That big something or other showcase is the PG Woodbat Tournament, not being able to name that event somehow tells me that you are not familiar with some of the more important venues in college recruiting and scouting. PGStaff is the owner and founder of Perfect Game. He really is telling you like it is, really.
Tournaments all over the country cost teams about the amount you mentioned, why do you suppose that is? Permits? Umpires? Insurance? Salary? Also we have played tournaments at all times, early morning, in the rain, in the heat, the cold and one time about around 12am due to rain delay. Never even thought of asking for money back, were those times not suitable for you?
350 dollars for a college showcase camp? What results did you get from that camp? You do understand that these programs run these camps to make money for their programs, not to find recruits.
The players last name is Hamilton, and everyone who knows and follows baseball knows who Josh Hamilton is.
The dirtbags ripped you off and so did another organization? Sounds like if you do not get the results that YOU are looking for you demand your money back
Maybe you should attend a PG showcase, then you can get an honest evaluation of your son and then you are able to know where is the best place to spend your money. Be prepared, they are expensive.
Try to expand your horizons past the ACC and NC. This would be in your sons best interests, I think.
Do some research on this site, which by the way has thousands and thousands of members, right now there are almost 200 reading at almost 2am (insomnia night). This site will help you to understand, I think that this will help you to understand teh recruiting process and how to spend your money wisely.
I live in FL and my son attended an out of state ACC program, so understand that you do not have to live in the same state to be recruited by an out of state program.
I am a mom (thank you keewart) and I think that you are too.
My son plays professional baseball.
Legion may be a great option.
Good luck!
TPM,
Its been a long while since I have visited this forum, since June 2013 I believe. I returned today just to unsubscribe because I am still receiving emails from this forum when someone posts a comment to this thread. However, I did scan through the comments just out of curiosity. I don't believe I saw your response to my last post back in 2013 or I would have seen my response back to you. I included your response to refresh your memory.
Even though its been 2 years, I feel strong enough to make one last comment about the subject of this thread, but more specifically, to your remarks to me back in June 2013. You made a lot of assumptions about me in your posts that I unfortunately feel the need to rectify. I hate this about me, but I care what people think of me, whether its over the internet or in person. My posts back in June 2013 were not "sour grapes" as you commented. Its crazy, but people always think when someone posts something different from what they think, they are "sour grapes". Myself and most of the others that posted their negative experiences with travel ball teams were doing just that, posting our negative experiences. And another crazy thing, people that have not had negative experience with travel ball teams think those that have is because their sons suck at baseball. Even though you stated you were "not here to argue", you were here to ridicule. Your remarks were very condescending.
You insinuated that I was not familiar with some of the more important venues in college recruiting and scouting because I could not name the PG Wood Bat Tournament. Well, at what point are we all suppose to know these things? Maybe we were not at that point yet. See, here lies the problem. Not everyone wants or cares if their son is ever recruited to play college ball. Not everyone thinks their son is going to be the next best thing in baseball. Speaking for myself, I was simply posting about my family's negative experience with a travel/showcase team. And I do not think negatively of PGStaff, I do not believe PG is involved in this scam.
Now on to your schooling of me regarding the cost of tournaments. I am well aware of the costs of tournaments. As I stated in earlier posts, my husband created, managed, and coached a travel ball team for 5 years. We know what it costs to hold tournaments as well as we have organized and managed multiple tournaments. I actually grew up working tournaments as my father was always sponsoring all kinds of tournaments including semi-pro baseball tournaments. He loved baseball but was not very athletic so he got his fix by providing the funds for others to play. The only reason we got involved with a travel ball team was because my husband could no longer dedicate the time necessary to coach and manage a team. And just so you know, we have played tournaments at all times and in many undesirable conditions. We've played in sleet and 100 degree heat. And, while playing in a tournament held at ASU, we played in the early morning mountain fog. And yes, we have played into the early morning hours due to rain delays and because of extra inning games. These games are my best memories of playing baseball. Again, you are missing the point. And to school you a little bit since your son must not have ever been on the "D" team, when playing for these teams that exist only to provide funding for their A team, when it rains, the teams don't always play in the rain because they are usually cancelled, not worth the cost of umpires I guess. That causes most to want their money back. Your condescending remarks about times not being suitable for me provides no substance to this thread's purpose.
I am well aware that colleges hold camps to help fund their programs. I'm all for that. College baseball does not get the same level of funding as basketball and football. Maybe its different where you are, but colleges also have "elite" camps, several names are used, and they use these camps for recruiting. They actually invite players. Why are you asking what results I got? Are you wanting to hear that they told my son he was not D1 material?
Again you want to portray me as someone who does not know baseball because I could not remember Josh Hamilton's last name and by stating that "everyone who knows and follows baseball knows who Josh Hamilton is". I "follow" professional baseball through which ever team I am interested in. As I've said, my dad was a huge baseball fan. I watched many Atlanta Braves games with my dad. We made many trips to Atlanta to see them play throughout the 1980s. He passed away in 1993 after battling cancer for a few years. While pursuing my career and tending to children, I no longer had time to watch professional baseball or read tabloids while sitting around the pool, which is how some people know who Josh Hamilton is. In the last 10 years, I spent more time listening to my husband teach kids how to keep their bat in the strike zone longer, when to get that secondary lead off 1st base, and learning how to read a pitcher because some will forecast the type of pitch they are about to throw. But maybe that's not "following" baseball.
You again make this thread personal by saying things like if I don't get the results I want I demand my money back. Again, you're making the worst kind of assumptions about someone and something you do not know anything about. This kind of thing happens when you make a debate personal. My son did not play for the dirtbags nor did he ever tryout for them. We were ripped off by a different showcase team. Only one team ripped us off since you are counting. Wanting my money back had nothing to do with not getting the results I wanted. We were lied to plain and simple. There was no contract or fine print to read. We had no aspirations for our son to be recruited by playing with this team. Our son was just a rising 9th grader. We put our son on this team because my husband could no longer coach a team. Our son did not tryout for this team either. He was approached by the team's owner at one of the last tournaments my husband coached. Lets just say we were told our son would get plenty of playing time at multiple positions. That's all we were looking for. We were told many lies as were other parents. I asked for my money back before the first game the team played was over.
We didn't need to attend a PG showcase to get an honest evaluation of our son. Our son was getting lessons from a sometimes Triple A/sometimes MLB player during his off seasons. We just wanted our son to play ball and to play with and against competitive ball players. You can't always get that in the local little league.
You seemed to be focused on my lack of knowledge of the recruiting process, or your perception that I lacked knowledge. I agree this site has some very knowledgeable people and who know how to debate an issue without personal insults. You keep insinuating that we needed someone to tell us that our son was not D1 material so that we would not spend money on showcase teams. You ASSUME that since I said we were ripped off by a showcase team, that our son was not as good as we wanted or thought him to be. We simply wanted our son to perform at his potential, not just at baseball, put anything and everything he involved himself with, especially academics. We are not the parents you are thinking we are. And if I needed help with recruiting, we had what we needed.
Trust me, even my pea brain knows you can be recruited to play for a team outside your home state or your home state NCAA league. I think pretty much everyone knows that.
OK so what happened with my son? Drum role please...... He went on to play for a showcase team in Va during his sophomore and Junior year of high school. Its coach was an assistant coach at a private D3 school. We paid $650 which included 2 complete uniforms. It also included great coaching and mentoring!!!! The team was capped off at 15 players with mostly pitchers sitting on the bench. My son was 10th (academically) in a class of over 500. He was bound for engineering of some sort. He was a 4 year starter (only freshmen to make Varsity) during his high school BB career. He was miserable that year because he was not with his buddies on JV. See, our son did not eat, sleep, and sh*t ball. He loved baseball but mainly because he loves the sport and because he loved playing with his friends who had all been together since elementary grades. We were approached by a coach from a small D1 school during a showcase tournament. Bottom line, our son could have played D3 or possible D2 ball. He could have gone to a JC just so he could continue to play BB. But that is not what he wanted. He is attending an out of state school that has one of the top engineering programs in the country. He left his baseball shoes on his high school BB field and never looked back. He is just happy that he still gets together with those same friends when they all come home for summers and holidays.
Now, that is what we as parents were looking for, for our son. Yes, we complained about anything that was not on the up and up or things that kept our son from achieving his potential. You just have to get over the fact that not all kids playing baseball actually want to be a MLB player. As I said, we know a MLB player and it isn't always fun. And don't assume that someone on this post that complains about a travel ball team has a son that isn't all that good of a ball player. And for the rest of the folks on this thread, there are travel ball team owners out there that will put a "spin" on what they are offering. There is no fine print, only a mom and/or dad taking a man for his word.
Congrats on your son playing "professional baseball". If that is what your son wanted then he succeeded. My son isn't playing professional ball, but I consider him to be just as successful as your son.
Take Care!
There's life after baseball!
RJM, I am sick and tired of your condescending remarks like, "you have no business plan", bla bla bla. Bottom line is that these "so-called" showcase teams are nothing more than glorified travel teams, period. I don't think it is worth the $$ if you don't play enough EVEN though I know my son is as good as the rest of them. IT IS POLITICS PURE AND SIMPLE. Go ahead defend your travel scam buddies all you want, but I am here to yell at top of my lungs. RUN RUN RUN FROM THESE SO-CALLED SHOWCASE TEAMS. This is my last year doing this, no matter how well my son does on this team. The lady who just posted the long post is right, $650 is what the cost should be more like, not $2000. And by the way, I found 2 other showcase teams at $1500 with a smaller roster (11-14). But it is too late, I got scammed into this one thanks to RJM and his TRAVEL SCAM buddies.
James ... Get mad at whomever you wish. It's obvious you don't have a plan. It's obvious you have very little knowledge of the travel world. You only have a bad experience to lean on due to your ignorance.
First off, do you even know what is a showcase team? 15u teams are not showcase teams. College scouts aren't looking at 15u games. A 15yo that is talented enough to be scouted by a college is likely on a nationally known 16u team or a 17/18u showcase team.
i really don't get the part about my travel,scam buddies. I ran a team from 13u to 16u (for 15yos). All four coaches played college ball. Two played pro. Between the four of us we had a pitching coach, catching coach, infield coach and outfield coach. The focus was to prepare talented players for high school who had a desire to eventually play college ball. The cost per player was $500 for the summer. We played in ten tournaments and practiced a couple of times per week. I ended up losing money. I paid about $500 out of pocket for extras.
When end these kids were all sixteen they were varsity high school players as sophs. They were all invited to play for 17/18u showcase teams that varied in price. My son's was partially subsidized. The scout team he played for was free. If your son has talent he teams will come to him.
My daughter played showcase softball (18u Gold) starting at fifteen. Before that she played for their 16u and 14u teams. It was a subsidized program. They came to her for her talent.
Many people have stated in this thread 2k is not unreasonable for a showcase team. Do you understand how much it costs to get a team to East Cobb and stay for a week? You might be better served if you come here to learn rather than rip travel baseball due to your ignorance. Ignorance isn't bad. It just means you haven't learned. Stupid is bad. That's an inability to learn. Of course there's also stubbornness. That's the refusal to listen and learn from those with experience.
However you go about the process, good luck. You may need it.
RJM you have made my point. You charged only $500, this team charged $2000. See a bit of difference here?? I agree, this 15U team is NOT a showcase team, which I've already stated. But they market themselves as one. That is part of their SCAM which you seem to have no problem with, but many parents on this site do. My goal is to WARN parents away from them. By the way, the tournaments we play in cost the team $500-850/each, NOT $1500 as some suggested. So believe me they are pocketing big cash and NOT helping to develop players. Yes, if my son gets better at 16 and 17 then I'll start going to showcases at Colleges where multiple College Coaches attend.
Please stop with your condescending comments on my so-called ignorance. It shows what type of person you are.
Gosh darn-it! I hate I let myself get involved in this debate again! But I can't stand it when people insult my intelligence. As for what these travel/showcase team owners are charging, lets take what I know for sure, which is the team (not the DB) that ripped me off. They charged $1300 for what they called summer ball. They charged $750 for Fall Ball. So basically, they were charging $2050 a year. That included 2 pants and 2 jerseys. We had to purchase the 2 caps, socks, and belts. The team my son was on had approx. 17 players. This particular travel ball organization started with 2 teams, a 15U & 16U. We started in the Fall so paid $750. We played mostly Impact tournaments which in 2013 were between $650 and $800 per team. We played maybe 6 tournaments between August & November. Parents paid all other expenses such as hotel fees. This organization did not host any tournaments. Do the math, 2 teams with approx. 17 players each, I'll use $800 for tournament fees for both teams (34 players @ $750 per player = $25,500 minus the cost of 6 tournaments x 2 teams @ $800 = $9600, so the team owner is left with $15,900 for 4 months.
The summer season rolls around. The organization now has 4 teams, two teams for 2 age groups (2 A teams & 2 B teams). If your son is asked to come back and play the summer season, you get to pay $1300 for roughly 10 to 12 tournaments between end of March to July. No uniform is included if you played the Fall season. Its my understanding new players had to pay more because of uniform costs, but I never confirmed that. The number of players per team increased as well. Didn't know it until the first game. I don't know what was charged the other teams. I can only assume 2 of the 4 teams were charged approx. $1300, at least that is what my son and several other on the team were charged. So, the 2 B teams brought in roughly $46,800. Tournament fees at $800 = $19,200. So, this put roughly $27,600 in the owner's pocket for 5 months. This does not include what the 2 A teams were charged, if charged anything.
The Fall season was OK acceptable. But the owner got greedy and had to lie to hide what he was doing. He deceived many parents. I talked to the owner in between the Fall and Summer seasons. It was about a 45 minute conversation in January before I wrote that $1300 check. I got all the reassurances I needed. About 4 practices were held and 2 work out sessions. Yeah I saw a new face or two during this time, but I let it go. Show up for first tournament and WTH?!?! There were 20 players there and dressed in uniform. The number of MIF doubled from the last practice to first tournament. And the owner was a no-show. Only his coaches were there. The number of players was not the only issue either.
As for the DBs, I know a considerable amount about them because I have a friend whose son played on the A team, the FOUNDER OF THE DBs team. I also have a friend with a son who was on one of the C teams of the DBs. My son's team played against the gold and black DBs, but never the A team. See, my friend whose son was the A player was flown to Florida to play in tournaments while my friend's C player was at some high school field in the middle of no where. The A player ended up at a D1 school. The A player had to pay a fee but I never got a definite amount, but I did get a definite grin when I asked. But the air fare was free. The C player was charged the $1875 fee.
Everything was fine before these B & C teams and younger age teams were started. Any yes, they are classifying these teams as "showcase". It needs to go back like it was. These high priced showcase organizations should only have recruitable-aged teams, a 16 & 17 age team. The younger ages should play "travel" ball (AAU or USSSA or whatever they may be called now). If a kid tries out for the DB 16 or 17 age group team and isn't D1 material (in their staff's opinion), then he doesn't make the team and therefore, does not get ripped off.
There is blame to be placed on these showcase team owners, its not all on us ignorant parents. Ask questions you tell us. If we were given truthful responses, then this thread would not exist because no parent would pay $2000 if they knew what they found out at the first game.
Parents need to know that their kid can be recruited without being on a "showcase" team. Find a cheap travel ball team that plays a lot of tournaments to get more playing time. And these college coaches need to know that the next big thing in college BB may never be found because his parents don't have the means for their son to play on a showcase team. What was that movie where a recruiter traveled to these one horse towns and found a great pitcher???? That's what BB is all about. Why are so many trying to ruin it?
you can't fix fix stupid just seems to jump to mind...JamesB enjoy the legion season next summer and everyone will be happy!
Originally Posted by old_school:
you can't fix fix stupid just seems to jump to mind...JamesB enjoy the legion season next summer and everyone will be happy!
+100
Same goes for wantoknow.
Folks, travel baseball is expensive at at any level. If its not for your son or doesnt fit your pocketbook, find sometning else to do. Do yourhomework and dont always assume...thats on you. When we signed up son for a travel team that was very expensive, I talked to parents and in turn parents asked us for advice years later.
James, let me explain one last thing you don't seem to understand. When I ran a travel team seven to nine years ago I wasn't in it for the money. But if a program is a business they are. $2,000 for a travel team that is a business is very reasonable. Your paying for professional coaches and professional facilities plus the profit margin. The kids who played for us where fortunate we had quality coaching skills without being professionals. But when it came time to showcase I cut the kids loose. Showcase teams are about exposure and contacts, not coaching.
Want ... The next big thing will always be found. if he doesn't have money chances are he's playing free for a high level showcase team. It's everyone below the next big things who need to showcase unless they want to play for the local college (assuming they have the ability). My son was all conference, all county and all metro. He was listed from his soph year on as a college prospect to watch. I classified him as one in a group of about 500-1000 talent wise. Showcasing created some separation.
What two of you consider condescension from posters is an attempt to provide education. Many people have come here with open minds and benefitted. No one here is defending all travel programs. But there are many good ones. If you decide the world is one way based on one experience your sons lose out.
My point is this. I think 15yr. old HS Freshman shouldn't be playing for a showcase team most of the time. They are simply too young for College coaches to even care about. You can always market yourself. You don't need a "showcase team" in my opinion at all at this age. This is what I've concluded. My problem is the whole marketing of it by these high priced programs. It is not worth it if there are 17+ players because you simply cannot get enough playing time. I have coached baseball since for the last 7+ years. I coached a 13U and 14U team. I coached a High School team this past spring. I had some 17 and 18yr olds on my HS team that SHOULD showcase their talent because they are just that good. But you don't need a high priced showcase team to do it. Just get a skillshow video, it is then online, attend a few College showcases, PBR, etc. call College coaches, email them, bug them until they see your video or you personally in action. That is what I have concluded is the ideal way for them to see you. Maybe the College coaches go to a few 17 or 18U showcase/travel games, but even if they do, what do they see, 1 or 2 at-bats, 1 or 2 innings in the field and the ball may or may not be hit to the player. I don't see how that can help the player. I'd rather pay for a private evaluation by a College coach or bunch of coaches, such as at these 1-2 day showcases. That is my point.
Get your playing time where you can get it, Legion or Park or HS summer baseball.
jamesb - best of luck to you and your son. Sounds like the showcase thing wasn't what you were looking for nor what you desire. Sounds like you have a pretty good plan in place in order to move forward and that's what I would recommend at this point.. .move forward. So if you coached 13u, 14u, and recently HS baseball this last spring, maybe you should start a 15u team. You would probably enjoy it. Your son might not, but it sounds like you would.
I guess its everyones own money and they can spend or make it anyway that suits them. None of my business.
But this whole For Profit business model of travel baseball has become a haven for dream sellers and scammers and marketers to take large sums of money from hopeful parents. Its become a business model that preys on the emotions, dreams, egos, must-haves, must-dos, or fear of risking your player falling behind of highly marketed similar player.
I personally find it a disgusting turnoff to the whole process. I personally have disdain for these For Profit promoters who have inserted themselves between high school and college as the "Baseball Gatekeepers".
Where is the honesty? Where is the integrity? And flipside where is the objectiveness of the parents? Which make the question turn back full circle to what was the unwary parent "sold" and what were they led to "believe".
These B, C, D, Silver, EliteOrange, etc teams have some players on them that have a hard time playing in high school. Why are "top nationally recognized" showcase teams taking their money? Obviously these professionals know the player running a 7.9 60dash, throwing 72 across the field, and batting .120 with no power and long swing is not going to make it. Why continue to sell the dream other than pure profit based on what you can lead someone to believe? Does it make it OK that you have a willing paying customer to knowingly deceive them to keep their dream alive and money flowing until the bitter end?