Disappointing College Camp(s)

Ha! YES!  Camps are all over the place from awesome to average to terrible.  I feel confident saying that Vanderbilt runs the best camp.  It was not even close for us and I've heard others say the same.  It is run down to the minute.  If you didn't show up wanting to go there, you leave wanting to go there or at least hoping your son can be in a program run like that.  I could name the worst ones we went to, but I don't know that you are asking for names.  

Unfortunately most camps are organized by each school to help raise money for their program. Also unfortunately you may have noticed a group of kids, perhaps 5-10, that are grouped together aside from the other campers which are their active recruits.  I know this because one college camp my 2015 went to I overheard a camp helper tell another that those 5 kids in this certain group are the recruits and the rest...they are to help pay for spring break trips.  My 2015 made sure the camp knew he was coming via 1m video and email which helped just a little.

Some camps are good, some are not. The best camp my son did by far was the Johns Hopkins camp. It isn't even close. The evaluation they sent back was 11 pages long and spot on.

FWIW, most radars can be adjusted for angles. I doubt most adjust them, but it is possible.

I've seen some run once and some run twice. I've even seen a coach say to run it if you want a reading but that he doesn't pay attention to it and he can tell if you're fast when you're running the bases.

They can't really exclude kids and it is a money maker for them. So you are going to have kids of different levels.

The camps my son has done were a mix of live pitching, BP, and machine. I can see a camp doing machine only depending on the time of year or if they just want to make sure the hitters get to hit.

The better camps don't have standing around.

Most camps I've seen have a minimal amount of coaching to stay within NCAA rules. They are using the camps to make money and evaluate potential prospects.

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

Some camps are good, some are not. The best camp my son did by far was the Johns Hopkins camp. It isn't even close. The evaluation they sent back was 11 pages long and spot on.

FWIW, most radars can be adjusted for angles. I doubt most adjust them, but it is possible.

I've seen some run once and some run twice. I've even seen a coach say to run it if you want a reading but that he doesn't pay attention to it and he can tell if you're fast when you're running the bases.

They can't really exclude kids and it is a money maker for them. So you are going to have kids of different levels.

The camps my son has done were a mix of live pitching, BP, and machine. I can see a camp doing machine only depending on the time of year or if they just want to make sure the hitters get to hit.

The better camps don't have standing around.

Most camps I've seen have a minimal amount of coaching to stay within NCAA rules. They are using the camps to make money and evaluate potential prospects.

I'm impressed with the 11-pages. How many were at this camp that they could provided that much feedback?

All 3 camps my son attended were D1. There was definitely a direct correlation with how well the camp was run with how their program was ranked. The highest ranked team definitely maximized the camper participant's time the best. Worst team wasted the most time.

@Momball11 posted:

I'm impressed with the 11-pages. How many were at this camp that they could provided that much feedback?

All 3 camps my son attended were D1. There was definitely a direct correlation with how well the camp was run with how their program was ranked. The highest ranked team definitely maximized the camper participant's time the best. Worst team wasted the most time.

This was one of their smaller, one day camps. I think there was 40-50 kids there. They have a bunch of coaches and every one of them was engaged with the groups they were working with.

Your assessment on the quality of the program and their camps is very accurate. As stated above, the recruited players will definitely see a difference in their camp experience compared to the kids funding the program.

One Saturday I saw a camp going on at a local D1. I stopped to watch. After watching all the hitters I mentioned to a player on the team I knew I only saw four D1 swings. I pointed out the four. The player laughed. He said those four were in town free on a visit. Everyone else was financing the program.

My son did one open invite, showcase style camp freshman year of high school to get the feel for showcases. The other four camps he did were personal invite, prospect camps.

My son went to a camp at what would have been his #1 school. He hit a personal best (at the time) 92 and looked head and shoulders better than every single player on the field. Not only did nothing come of it, nobody even noticed. Not a single coach was paying attention, as a matter of fact they were all at the sandwich station set up along the backstop for the better part of the next 90 minutes. He committed to a rival school a few weeks later and has pitched against them twice.

Do not go to a camp unless

1. They know you are coming in advance and have communicated that they understand this

2. You are about to put on the show of a lifetime

3. You want a good place and cheaper way to gauge your talent level against other players, maybe specifically older guys, or just want a velo rating, get feet wet with recruiting events, see a campus/facilities, etc.

4. You want to make a donation to the volunteer coaches salary

I guess that applies more to D1 but camps are usually poorly run (with the exception of some like Vandy, Stanford) and done with the sole purpose of bringing money into the program. Not so much to identify players.

For D1 or D2 if your son is in HS  the only camp he should attend would be a prospect camp or one with personal invitation,  or HS catchers and pitchers camp, not a general camp.

Camps are usually used to subsidize only non ncaa salaried employees and those working the camps.

The best time to attend a camp would be during the time when coaches will be in attendance.

The camps are either owned by the HC or are a separate business run within the school.

You should be aware of how camp is run during extreme heat, rain or colder weather.

Just as a note, a personal invitation does NOT mean an email that says, "we saw you at XXX event and would like to personally invite you to attend our camp."  Those are form letters.  A personal invitation is a phone call from the college coach, to the player or to his travel coach, asking him to come to the camp.

@anotherparent posted:

Just as a note, a personal invitation does NOT mean an email that says, "we saw you at XXX event and would like to personally invite you to attend our camp."  Those are form letters.  A personal invitation is a phone call from the college coach, to the player or to his travel coach, asking him to come to the camp.

My son received one of these “personal” invites after a camp he was scheduled to attend but didn’t. Obviously colleges purchase the signup list and send out form letter personal invites.

The personal invitations don't always mean anything either.  A pretty well known program sent my son a Dm asking him to come to a camp.  We said ok, rearranged that weekend, left one camp early and drove 3 hours to this one.  The players ran it, weren't paying attention, gave my son someone else's evaluation sheet and never said a word to him.  The very next day the HC called our club and asked if my son would be interested in their school.  They didn't even know he was at the camp.  Totally unorganized and a waste of time.  That said, we went to two camps uninvited and my son talked to the coaches weekly after that.  We were called back to tour facilities and talk to the coach at both camps.  That said, they were both prospect camps and were run pretty well with coaches paying attention.

@RJM posted:

My son received one of these “personal” invites after a camp he was scheduled to attend but didn’t. Obviously colleges purchase the signup list and send out form letter personal invites.

How long ago was that?

That may be true  depending on the program. 

I think that anotherparent made a very valid and correct observation.

As others have said unless there is a personal invite, and by that to me that means your kid has had conversations with the coach already, or your there has been some real introduction via your son's TB or HS coach, or similar.

My kids didn't go to many camps, but I was very impressed with coach Owens at Rutgers and coach Blankmeyer when he was at St. Johns.

My son went to a few PG and PBR showcases plus a couple of camps. He was invited personally by one of the Duke assistants to their 3 day camp. He went and it was well run. Pollard was there the entire camp, as were his assistants plus assistants from other HA D1 schools and some local D2 and D3 schools. All coaches coached. My son developed a good relationship with the Duke AC and a couple of other AC’s. Duke AC told him he was one the 5 catchers in his class they were interested in, then Covid hit. We weren’t able to travel in 2020 when they selected another C in his class. Once my son committed to an excellent D2 program, he called the Duke AC and had a great conversation.  Class camp and organization. An aside: it rained during lunch at Duke and Pollard helped get the facility ready once the weather passed. No duty too small for the HC.

@TPM posted:

How long ago was that?

That may be true  depending on the program.

I think that anotherparent made a very valid and correct observation.

I’m not sure what you’re reading between the lines. My response was a 100% agreement with Anotherparent’s first sentence. I believe her second sentence was clarifying a previous post I made the only camps to attend are those of personal invite prospect camps made by personal contact.

During the AC games I created two hours instructional clinic. One year my hitting instructions were Eric Davis and Dusty Baker. The two batting cages at Blair Field was packed with players, scouts. Every eye was on Eric .

I ask Dusty why you are not teaching? He said Eric will not let me.

Davis told the HS players “turn it loose, the radar guns are not tracking change up”

good hitters adjust, study, they do not wait for the coaches whistle

Bob

I can't believe how many generic camp emails 2023 gets these days.  Probably 3-5/day for the last month between P5 through NAIA.  Personally I don't know what to think about them.  I guess I'm not as pessimistic about them as long as you are going to one that is a reasonable fit baseball wise.

2023 verbally committed to a D2 STEM school in fall 2021 after going to a 2 day "prospect camp" his mother happened to see it on their website.  No advance conversations or notice.  He just showed up.   About 80 kids.  The RC contacted him the evening after camp ended.  Asked family to make a visit and offered him a week afterwards.  He liked the coaches.  It was a good fit academically where he would get merit money on top of baseball money and a school he had been considering already.   The only other camps/showcases he went rising jr year was Headfirst and a D3 STEM school in the midwest where he was invited by the RC who knew his coach.  I think 20 kids there. They were pretty silent afterwards.  Like zero feedback.  No response even to a thank you email by him.  But when he contacted them to let them know he was committing to another school, they acted disappointed.   

Headfirst was interesting.  One Ivy checked him out lightly.  (Interestingly, I know no one thinks EV matters but he hit 87 off a tee at 5ft 8/150lbs and I think that was a big reason).  No other D1s paid him any mind.  The D3s said it was too early and were kinda aloof but a few actually followed up with him before this summer.  So I suspect it would have been fruitful in the D3 market if he went there in the rising senior summer.

I think someone mentioned before that his situation was different than trying to cold call into an upper level D1 camp.  I buy that as absolutely correct.  But I actually do think you can get noticed at a camp if you pick a baseball level appropriate for the kids ability and have strong academics.  Swim in the pond you belong and it might work. 

Sorry. 2023 corrects me. "It was 89 dude"

College camps exist for 2 reasons.  1. to make money for program or pay Volunteer Assistant's salary.  2.  To see a few kids up close or get them on campus so the coaches can talk to them and show them around.  The other problem is #2 set of kids are normally not paying what other kids are paying.

Parents have a misconstrued point of view of expectations of college camps.  The mindset for younger camps is to give kids a chance to interact with players and coaches and learn a little.  The mindset for HS camps is to find players.  If you have another idea or mindset than this, then you will be disappointed.  If you are a HS kid and not on the level of the school camp you are attending you will probably be frustrated.

I helped with a few camps that last 2 hours and had 100 plus kids and parents were disappointed their kid was not significantly better after the camp.  Understand expectations of camps.  They are not group lesson sessions.

Great comments by all. I know for us my son went with the intent of being seen. He reached out to each school ahead of time to introduce himself and let them know he would be attending. Not sure if they got the messages.

I just find it false advertising to say there will be instruction when there isn't any. He definitely was on the radar for the highest ranked program, but we feel that is because one of his current coaches personally reached out to them ahead of time. Coaches at this camp told him they liked how he had performed at the camp and planned to see him play during a fall game. Less than a week later he goes to a camp at a lower ranked program. We don't think they even noticed him. But we could certainly tell who they had invited to watch. So I'm pretty convinced it takes someone on your behalf to put in a good word for you ahead of time more than anything these days. We've spoken to several people about the level he should be targeting, so we're following their advice when signing up for camps.

Let me just add that signing up for camp does not mean they will look at you.  Usually, to be honest, they only look at the ones they personally invited unless someone just shines greatly.  But some times not even in that case.  I've shared it before but son hit homeruns on each side of the plate and the next closest number hit by anyone was 1.  He threw 9 pitches in his 1 inning to pitch with 2 strikeouts.  The host school messed it up so bad.  They told him he needed to work on power hitting and more control pitching.  I laughed and walked away.   It is  usually not a good bargain to go to camps unless the team asks, not emails, you to come.  I know there are exceptions but they are rare.

Best :  Arkansas.  No one else was even close.  DVH seemed to watch every single kid and would throw out some fist bumps to some of the strugglers.  The pitching camp with Wes Johnson was even better  

Worst:  A tie between Baylor and Central Arkansas.  After setting up the camp for our team only, the HC didn’t show up.  At Central Arkansas the coach had a pitcher on the mound, a hitter at the plate and a catcher.  Everyone else in the dugout.  Coach yelled out 5 fastballs, then 5 each of your offspeed pitches that were vocalized to the hitter. Strangest thing I’ve ever seen in my life.

@d-mac posted:

Best :  Arkansas.  No one else was even close.  DVH seemed to watch every single kid and would throw out some fist bumps to some of the strugglers.  The pitching camp with Wes Johnson was even better  

Worst:  A tie between Baylor and Central Arkansas.  After setting up the camp for our team only, the HC didn’t show up.  At Central Arkansas the coach had a pitcher on the mound, a hitter at the plate and a catcher.  Everyone else in the dugout.  Coach yelled out 5 fastballs, then 5 each of your offspeed pitches that were vocalized to the hitter. Strangest thing I’ve ever seen in my life.

In defense of the HC. They're usually not present unless they have a reason to be (they usually don't)

My son only ever went to one camp. Oral Roberts. It was 2 days and it was excellent, although they were after one kid and the coaches spent most of their time courting him.  The head coach was hands on the entire 2 days as was the coaching staff...nothing ever came of it but son played well at the camp.  I believe it was his sophomore year.

Camps really are more about fun & experience

My son at 17 attended one camp, D1 SEMO (South East Missouri), and had a blast.  Good coaching, games played, learned a few things.  They gave him a detailed report afterwards of things he looked good at/things to improve on. Head Coach was there the entire time, my son talked one on one with him briefly at the end of camp

He wasn’t really a D1 prospect but at the time was considering going JUCO and wanted to get some extra experience and get on the radar for future recruiting possibilities out of JUCO.  He ended up going D3

For us, we just looked at it as a part of a family vacation.  Took in the Lincoln gravesite on the way down, explored St Louis & Cape Girardeau (personally I loved that little river town) etc

@PABaseball posted:

In defense of the HC. They're usually not present unless they have a reason to be (they usually don't)

My 2024 has been to quite a few camps.  Only one of the P5 schools didn't have the HC or top assistant coaches in attendance.  There was only the volunteer GA.  All the top players cut that school right after the camp.

By far his best experience was actually his first one.  He was in the 8th grade.  Both he and a friend were pretty darn good for 8th graders....but they were both about 4'8 and maybe 80 pounds.  It was at an Univ of Cincy.  We honestly had no delusions of him getting any real looks but he and his friend both thought it would be fun and we figured it'd be a good experience.   We went the night before and they were the first two to check in the next morning.  They were standing along the rail, admiring the field....as the other kids started to roll in.  Pretty soon they were almost hiding along a back wall lol.  They were seeing juniors and seniors in high school rolling in with their HS names on the front of their t-shirt/jersey.  The top schools in the state....and even a few out of state.   They weren't nearly as exctited at this point.   Fast forward a half hour....after warm ups.  An assistant from an SEC school came up to them....talked to them for a few minutes and basically took them under his wing for the rest of the camp.  He watched them for a little bit.....then threw them right into the fire....at shortstop playing against the big guys.   To say they shocked him a little is an understatement.  He came over after the camp and probably talked to us for 20 minutes or so.  He said it was impressive that those two were willing to step up and take on the older kids....and that this was by far the best way for young kids to get better.   He told us to keep in touch as those two got older.   The boys had smiles on their faces for a week after that.  The coach?  Some of you may know him.  He was an assistant at UK at the time but is now probably the most well know coach in the country....outside of D1.  It was Jeremy "Sheets" Sheetinger  current head coach of Georgia Gwinnett.  Any of you who follow his videos and his career can be assured that he is exactly the guy that he seems like.  It would be great if more coaches could be like him.   Kinda proves that you can be a nice guy and still win games & championships

@PABaseball posted:

In defense of the HC. They're usually not present unless they have a reason to be (they usually don't)

We had double digit D1 kids and the majority signed with SEC schools plus one who was a 2nd round pick.  If that wasn't enough reason, then I don't know what is.   It was a major turn off and that was the only time that a HC wasn't present at a camp. 

@baseballhs posted:

The personal invitations don't always mean anything either.  A pretty well known program sent my son a Dm asking him to come to a camp.  We said ok, rearranged that weekend, left one camp early and drove 3 hours to this one.  The players ran it, weren't paying attention, gave my son someone else's evaluation sheet and never said a word to him.  The very next day the HC called our club and asked if my son would be interested in their school.  They didn't even know he was at the camp.  Totally unorganized and a waste of time.  That said, we went to two camps uninvited and my son talked to the coaches weekly after that.  We were called back to tour facilities and talk to the coach at both camps.  That said, they were both prospect camps and were run pretty well with coaches paying attention.

I think how serious the invite is depends in large part on how it is transmitted.  If it comes by letter, e-mail, or DM, it's probably a blanket invitation that's going out indiscriminately.  If it's initiated by a phone call from the college coach to the kid's HS (or travel) coach saying "Tell Tommy to sign up for our prospect camp" it's probably a bit more serious. 

@MTH posted:

I think how serious the invite is depends in large part on how it is transmitted.  If it comes by letter, e-mail, or DM, it's probably a blanket invitation that's going out indiscriminately.  If it's initiated by a phone call from the college coach to the kid's HS (or travel) coach saying "Tell Tommy to sign up for our prospect camp" it's probably a bit more serious.

I was just making the point that they didn't even know he was at the camp.  He was there 6-7 hours, and they were actually interested in him since the head coach called the next day.  They obviously weren't paying attention at the camp.  That said, we wrote them off mostly because it was so disorganized and my son felt like they really wasted our time...which they did.

@Master P posted:

My 2024 has been to quite a few camps.  Only one of the P5 schools didn't have the HC or top assistant coaches in attendance.  There was only the volunteer GA.  All the top players cut that school right after the camp.

Interesting, at least 4-5 years ago it was pretty rare to see a HC there. Maybe things are changing. Assistants were normal, just not the head man.

Also really depends on who the decision makers are. Some trust their RC, some need to be given the blessing by HC first. Could have been there were no players they had their eye on coming.

@d-mac posted:

We had double digit D1 kids and the majority signed with SEC schools plus one who was a 2nd round pick.  If that wasn't enough reason, then I don't know what is.   It was a major turn off and that was the only time that a HC wasn't present at a camp.

I don't disagree, just pointing out that it wasn't unusual to not see the HC. At least that seemed to be the norm 5-6 years ago. Most cases he was there for the welcome speech and vanished.

As I mentioned above, a lot can depend on the individual program. Some HCs are not recruiters but more managers, if they trust their assistants they don't necessarily have to be present. I know in the case of one of mine, he did not meet the HC until we ran into him by chance at a tournament watching his nephew play. He had already been committed for 6 months at that point. Consensus was that most had not met him until the official visit

@PitchingFan posted:

College camps exist for 2 reasons.  1. to make money for program or pay Volunteer Assistant's salary.  2.  To see a few kids up close or get them on campus so the coaches can talk to them and show them around.  The other problem is #2 set of kids are normally not paying what other kids are paying.

Parents have a misconstrued point of view of expectations of college camps.  The mindset for younger camps is to give kids a chance to interact with players and coaches and learn a little.  The mindset for HS camps is to find players.  If you have another idea or mindset than this, then you will be disappointed.  If you are a HS kid and not on the level of the school camp you are attending you will probably be frustrated.

I helped with a few camps that last 2 hours and had 100 plus kids and parents were disappointed their kid was not significantly better after the camp.  Understand expectations of camps.  They are not group lesson sessions.

Just my opinion, I agree.

@CollegebaseballInsights posted:

Just my opinion, I agree.

I also agree with much that PFan stated.

I (we) were naive in how the camps worked, other than the obvious that if you really want to play at that school you should attend.  My son wasn't a highly recruited player thus there was very little direct contact.  He participated in a small handful of  showcases, and attended 2 camps, one a D3 since was close by and the other was a 3 day D1 camp, each at the prospective school (they were within a 1 hour drive of each other).

For us it came down what we expected to get out of it.  We wanted to give my son and us an idea of how he compared with others in his age, to give him experience in camps and showcases so he will be familiar with the format and not be nervous about performing, and of course to get seen by programs.  Of the 3 camp days he only attended two because first day of class conflicted with the 3rd day (thus he omitted one school home field).  He did well in my opinion but received no direct contacts.

I mention this because in our case he was put on the radar with at least 1 D1 school, who a few months later contacted him and presented an offer.  This recruiter was just watching as an observer in the background and son peaked his interest.  He started following son and saw it was no fluke, and we had no idea.  Thus point is you never know who is in the background.  The camp itself may not produce any direct interest from that school, but hopefully another school will see your son being a perfect fit in their program.  Even if nothing became of it we have no regrets, it was fun for all of us, gave him an opportunity to be on the field with some gifted athletes, and most importantly gave us an idea where he stacked up.

@Trust In Him posted:

Thus point is you never know who is in the background.

My son’s pitching coach used to tell him this all the time. After the last Showball one of the D1 schools called my son and told him they’d watched him pitch 3 times before that this summer. The coach made a point to say how much of a team guy he is and how he was always engaged even when he wasn’t pitching.

Somebody recently sold an old list of email addresses, because I've just started to get a lot of emails about prospect camps - and my son graduated HS in 2019.  But I hadn't gotten them the past 3 years.

@GSully1 posted:

My son went to a few PG and PBR showcases plus a couple of camps. He was invited personally by one of the Duke assistants to their 3 day camp. He went and it was well run. Pollard was there the entire camp, as were his assistants plus assistants from other HA D1 schools and some local D2 and D3 schools. All coaches coached. My son developed a good relationship with the Duke AC and a couple of other AC’s. Duke AC told him he was one the 5 catchers in his class they were interested in, then Covid hit. We weren’t able to travel in 2020 when they selected another C in his class. Once my son committed to an excellent D2 program, he called the Duke AC and had a great conversation.  Class camp and organization. An aside: it rained during lunch at Duke and Pollard helped get the facility ready once the weather passed. No duty too small for the HC.

Agree about the Duke camp. My son got invited by one of the former assistant coaches his freshman year. It was freezing that weekend of the camp and they were able to regroup and do some stuff indoors and in classrooms while they waited for it to "warm up".  Despite the weather, they put on an excellent camp. Pollard is a class act.