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CD...it will die on it's on.....and rise again with the next Bonds news article.....we can close this thread.....but another will start.....Barry and 'roids is not going away soon.....
It's baseball related....and relative to current affairs...as long as it remains civil....what is the problem?
Posters can choose to avoid it...or not....IMHO
It's baseball related....and relative to current affairs...as long as it remains civil....what is the problem?
Posters can choose to avoid it...or not....IMHO
Agree with you, Lady.
I've gotten "launched" in several forums and I've left it there.
I've gotten "launched" in several forums and I've left it there.
CD:
I agree with LadyNmom and Beenthere.
It is heated and contentious, but it remains baseball related.
We all know how to avoid those threads that we do not like or we find unappealing. There are many websters here on the HSBBW that I'm sure avoid my stupid musings...it's their choice!
I agree with LadyNmom and Beenthere.
It is heated and contentious, but it remains baseball related.
We all know how to avoid those threads that we do not like or we find unappealing. There are many websters here on the HSBBW that I'm sure avoid my stupid musings...it's their choice!
even better delete it completely,
but that would make too much sense
but that would make too much sense
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Hot topic...will get a voice somewhere...At least it's sort of quar-an-teened.
I'd say you throw a line of karma around it to keep it karmtained.
44
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Hot topic...will get a voice somewhere...At least it's sort of quar-an-teened.
I'd say you throw a line of karma around it to keep it karmtained.
44.
With it open, then all new threads along the same lines can be closed and pushed into that direction... essentially minimize the damage...
E-6....why delete it? You may not like what was posted....it may not have matched your version of "nice"....but when people put time into a post.....why would you delete that?
BigHit shut it down.....but I think RamRod has the right to post and start threads...no matter how much we may not like what he has to say....if he says it with civility....what is the problem? Again....we can ignore or participate.....
BigHit shut it down.....but I think RamRod has the right to post and start threads...no matter how much we may not like what he has to say....if he says it with civility....what is the problem? Again....we can ignore or participate.....
Lady, I agree with you completely, but it turned nasty. Closed. Was the last page civil? I think not.
Bighit....you asked me a question....and then you answered it.....
My answer...yes, it was civil....just RR doing what he does best....trying to outsmart and out answer everyone else......but then civility is in the eye of the moderator....can't argue with that.....I have come to appreciate, however, the power of censorship.....
My answer...yes, it was civil....just RR doing what he does best....trying to outsmart and out answer everyone else......but then civility is in the eye of the moderator....can't argue with that.....I have come to appreciate, however, the power of censorship.....
Lady,
This is a hobby site. Censorship does not apply. It is at the descretion of the moderators. I can assure you that I have the blessings of the owner.
I gave my opinion.
In making these decisions, history is also a factor. This is not the first time. You need to read the board rules. Baiting or inflammatory posts are not allowed. This thread falls into that category. Yes, some of it is subjective. I have to use my experience to determine a course of action. The job is made harder when I have to justify my decision to those that think the internet is based on the 1st amendment only. Again, this is a hobby site and at the descretion of the owner and moderators. You need to understand that before you criticize the moderators who do this for free and do their best. I appreciate dissenting points of view, but that was my decision. Anyone is free to start their own site and follow any rules they like.
Board Manners
Please read the above link to understand.
This is a hobby site. Censorship does not apply. It is at the descretion of the moderators. I can assure you that I have the blessings of the owner.
quote:Bighit....you asked me a question....and then you answered it.....
I gave my opinion.
In making these decisions, history is also a factor. This is not the first time. You need to read the board rules. Baiting or inflammatory posts are not allowed. This thread falls into that category. Yes, some of it is subjective. I have to use my experience to determine a course of action. The job is made harder when I have to justify my decision to those that think the internet is based on the 1st amendment only. Again, this is a hobby site and at the descretion of the owner and moderators. You need to understand that before you criticize the moderators who do this for free and do their best. I appreciate dissenting points of view, but that was my decision. Anyone is free to start their own site and follow any rules they like.
Board Manners
Please read the above link to understand.
While I posted above that I would like to keep all of the Bonds noise in one place to avoid polluting the rest of this site, after reading through the post, I can see why you closed it.
Being a moderator not an easy job - thank you for doing it...
Being a moderator not an easy job - thank you for doing it...
I agree with BigHit's decision to close the thread. He also sent me a notification right after he locked it, asking me to go ahead and step in if I disagreed.
Differences of opinion are interesting and most often fruitful. There are a bunch of moderators on this site who checked in on the thread periodically and let it run its course for a while, including me. At a certain point, that was enough. The posts weren't deleted and no one was given an official scolding. But based on past history and experience, several moderators felt that it fit the purpose, the objectives, and the rules of this site to lock the thread.
I also want to highlight this quote from BigHit:
Moderating this site is sometimes fun and rewarding, sometimes difficult and unappealing. We all do it for free. We all know that we will sometimes be criticized for our decisions. When the criticism comes from newer members, it's easier to understand and accept. But when long time members repeatedly cry "censorship", it rankles a bit.
Thank you to the wonderful group of moderators who help make this site a special place!
Julie
Differences of opinion are interesting and most often fruitful. There are a bunch of moderators on this site who checked in on the thread periodically and let it run its course for a while, including me. At a certain point, that was enough. The posts weren't deleted and no one was given an official scolding. But based on past history and experience, several moderators felt that it fit the purpose, the objectives, and the rules of this site to lock the thread.
I also want to highlight this quote from BigHit:
quote:The job is made harder when I have to justify my decision to those that think the internet is based on the 1st amendment only. Again, this is a hobby site and at the descretion of the owner and moderators. You need to understand that before you criticize the moderators who do this for free and do their best.
Moderating this site is sometimes fun and rewarding, sometimes difficult and unappealing. We all do it for free. We all know that we will sometimes be criticized for our decisions. When the criticism comes from newer members, it's easier to understand and accept. But when long time members repeatedly cry "censorship", it rankles a bit.
Thank you to the wonderful group of moderators who help make this site a special place!
Julie
BigHit...please read my post again....I said that it was a moderator's right to close a thread......and I have read the rules.....my problem is that you not only closed the thread but told Ramrod you would close any other thread he started (think that's censorship..no?)......and I am familar with his history too....and I believe your job is to moderate.....not lecture....but...thank you.
EDIT...I just read my previous posts.....and......would someone please point out to me....where I told BigHit he could not do what he did.....or critized him for doing it? A little sensitive.....are we not Big?
EDIT...I just read my previous posts.....and......would someone please point out to me....where I told BigHit he could not do what he did.....or critized him for doing it? A little sensitive.....are we not Big?
quote:....and I believe your job is to moderate.....not lecture....but...thank you.
Since I'm one of the people who discusses with the other moderators "what should a moderator do?", I will just comment here:
What looks like a lecture to you, looks like an explanation to me. And I do think it is often helpful when moderators post an explanation of what they did - certainly not required, but often helpful.
I'm not trying to pick on anyone here, but I think in this discussion it is reasonable for me to give my point of view.
quote:I have come to appreciate, however, the power of censorship.....
Sorry if I interpreted that as a criticism. My bad.
To clarify, if RR starts another thread to advance his agenda of racism by white people, I will close it. It is inflammatory. Read the board manners.
quote:and I believe your job is to moderate
It is, but I am entitled to my opinion as well. Also, as a moderator, I will lecture if I feel it needed. These are old arguments. "Moderators should not have opinions". That is your opinion, and it is incorrect. If I feel someone is out of line, I will lecture. Should I not lecture and just have them banned? I don't think so. That would be unfair. BTW, that is a rhetorical question. Feel free to comment.
I am not sensitive after 6 years here. lol
MN-Mom...thank you also...but maybe you or Big could answer my question...where and when did I criticize him? If one is to be lectured it's nice to know why.....thanking you in advance for your response.....
Big...I never said "moderators should not have opinions".....please read what I posted,do not add to it, and please do not lecture me unless you have a reason.....express all the opinions you want....but don't take me to task.....not without a reason.....you sir are not big enough...
Big...I never said "moderators should not have opinions".....please read what I posted,do not add to it, and please do not lecture me unless you have a reason.....express all the opinions you want....but don't take me to task.....not without a reason.....you sir are not big enough...
Read above!
To repeat Big....where did I criticize you? Your "bad"....is that an apology...if so it is accepted, and thank you....I do appreciate the job you have to do.....
quote:and I believe your job is to moderate.....not lecture....but...thank you.
Isn't that a criticism of my moderating? Sounds like it ot me.
quote:A little sensitive.....are we not Big?
Another one? Also erroneous!
Bottom line, I made a decision, you don't like it. I'll sleep tonight. I will respond no more.
LadyNmom,
I'm not sure whether you were asking me "when did I critizise him?" because I talked about moderators being criticized above, or in response to something BigHit said. My comment about criticism was a general one. I honestly don't mean to be rude here, but really don't have the time to debate this by looking back through your posts, etc.
Moderators do a tough job for no pay, and recently it has kept many of us busier because of our continuing increase in traffic - have you noticed that our total viewers of the board often hits 300 at a time lately? BigHit is one moderator who has helped handle a recent bunch of newbies (mostly players) who came on and posted trash talk, etc.
Now sorry, but I honestly have lost patience. I have spent 6 to 8 hours per day this week (yes, volunteer, unpaid) working on the site including handling issues with new members who were trash talking, and adding two more moderators to help handle it, and now I haven't finished the work for my real job and don't know how I can possibly make it to my son's final games of his college season tomorrow.
Sorry, I truly am not trying to insult or offend you, but it just doesn't seem like you understand how many other things ALL the moderators are doing around here when you persist with this line of posts.
I'm not sure whether you were asking me "when did I critizise him?" because I talked about moderators being criticized above, or in response to something BigHit said. My comment about criticism was a general one. I honestly don't mean to be rude here, but really don't have the time to debate this by looking back through your posts, etc.
Moderators do a tough job for no pay, and recently it has kept many of us busier because of our continuing increase in traffic - have you noticed that our total viewers of the board often hits 300 at a time lately? BigHit is one moderator who has helped handle a recent bunch of newbies (mostly players) who came on and posted trash talk, etc.
Now sorry, but I honestly have lost patience. I have spent 6 to 8 hours per day this week (yes, volunteer, unpaid) working on the site including handling issues with new members who were trash talking, and adding two more moderators to help handle it, and now I haven't finished the work for my real job and don't know how I can possibly make it to my son's final games of his college season tomorrow.
Sorry, I truly am not trying to insult or offend you, but it just doesn't seem like you understand how many other things ALL the moderators are doing around here when you persist with this line of posts.
MN-Mom.....sorry the job is so big....truly.
Sorry also for the over reaction.....I posted a few lines, and the next thing I know you and BigHit are posting repeatedly......
When someone says they are not "picking"....it makes me wonder......I was the only one who posted to Big about RR.....and even though you don't have time to re-read all you both had to say.....take my word for it....it was a lot of verbage about moderators, lectures, rules and procedures...my only question was why? I never questioned any of it....just wanted to know why it was necessary....with you being so busy.....and all......
I only asked why.......and/or what did I do wrong to deserve all the lectures/postings?
Sorry also for the over reaction.....I posted a few lines, and the next thing I know you and BigHit are posting repeatedly......
When someone says they are not "picking"....it makes me wonder......I was the only one who posted to Big about RR.....and even though you don't have time to re-read all you both had to say.....take my word for it....it was a lot of verbage about moderators, lectures, rules and procedures...my only question was why? I never questioned any of it....just wanted to know why it was necessary....with you being so busy.....and all......
I only asked why.......and/or what did I do wrong to deserve all the lectures/postings?
Ramrod....need to tell you.....I've not supported your position at all....as far as your postings go.....I completely disagree with your ideas, and assumptions....
...only supporting civility.....and basic curtesy when we address one another.....
...that's it....
...only supporting civility.....and basic curtesy when we address one another.....
...that's it....
quote:Originally posted by Ramrod:
Sorry Julie but LadyNmom is right...adults don't need to be sent to their rooms.
Yeah but if you act like a young child - you are bedroom bound. LOL
You are full of **** - IMO
LadyNmom
Understood and there was no assertion in inference to the contrary.
My assertion, simply put, let them close em...it is their right, helps them feel important.
It is no more then pushing the reset button on a video game.
Understood and there was no assertion in inference to the contrary.
My assertion, simply put, let them close em...it is their right, helps them feel important.
It is no more then pushing the reset button on a video game.
RR
Think of this--he does not have a book of words in front of him like you do-- you dont impress anyone with that--I told you a long time ago and also let go of the cross --it is getting too heavy for you as you get older
Think of this--he does not have a book of words in front of him like you do-- you dont impress anyone with that--I told you a long time ago and also let go of the cross --it is getting too heavy for you as you get older
quote:Originally posted by Ramrod:
LadyNmom
Understood and there was no assertion in inference to the contrary.
My assertion, simply put, let them close em...it is their right, helps them feel important.
It is no more then pushing the reset button on a video game.
I beg to differ. Inferences - or even subtle accusations - of racism are a direct affront to most - if not all posters here.
So - please - buy a dictionary - or hire an English tutor. Understand what you write - and how you write it - and how it is interpreted.
And please - when you write 1000 word paragraphs - spell the words correctly. If you dont - you look like a fake to those that are observant.
LOL
.
As a poster with a sense of humor...
...You gotta love it when a thread on Moderating another degenerated thread...well....degenerates...
With all due respect, where's Chuck Berris when we need him...gong?
or Better yet maybe we can get the Wood man to hijack this thing...
44
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As a poster with a sense of humor...
...You gotta love it when a thread on Moderating another degenerated thread...well....degenerates...
With all due respect, where's Chuck Berris when we need him...gong?
or Better yet maybe we can get the Wood man to hijack this thing...
44.
RR
Now That is the attitude you need to have if your going to make it in this cruel world.
Pick yourself up, Brush yourself off and go for your Dream's.
Don't let anybody get you Down.
Know one's going to keep me down.
No Sir, I going to make it, Hell are High Water.
Don't use anybody else for your failure to Succeed.
Were bigger then That.
I'm going to be the best I can Be.
Not You are him are that Guy is going to keep me from reaching My goal.
My Goal you Ask.
Let me tell you, My Goal is to Get my Son into the College of his Choice.
How am I going to do that.
Well He might get Some Scolly Money. Haven't seen any yet.
Grade's are good, But not quite able to get any academic Money.
I guess I make a little to much to Qualify for any Hardship Money's.
And my son is not a Minority.
So he Doesn't Qualify for Jack.
Is That going to Keep him from going to College.
Not if I can Help it.
I'll work 2 Job's if I have to.
I'll mortgage my House.
Sell my Car's.
Whatever it take's.
WHY, cause nobody, I repeat Nobody is going to keep My son from reaching his Goal. the EH
quote:It's not worth the bother for you to get on the wrong side of the powers to be here.
I'm truly not ired at all by Big...it's all about power and the exercise of control.
Type A's are like that...being one myself, you develope a lot of oil for those feathers. It just slides off with the rest of the bs you have to put up with in life.
Now That is the attitude you need to have if your going to make it in this cruel world.
Pick yourself up, Brush yourself off and go for your Dream's.
Don't let anybody get you Down.
Know one's going to keep me down.
No Sir, I going to make it, Hell are High Water.
Don't use anybody else for your failure to Succeed.
Were bigger then That.
I'm going to be the best I can Be.
Not You are him are that Guy is going to keep me from reaching My goal.
My Goal you Ask.
Let me tell you, My Goal is to Get my Son into the College of his Choice.
How am I going to do that.
Well He might get Some Scolly Money. Haven't seen any yet.
Grade's are good, But not quite able to get any academic Money.
I guess I make a little to much to Qualify for any Hardship Money's.
And my son is not a Minority.
So he Doesn't Qualify for Jack.
Is That going to Keep him from going to College.
Not if I can Help it.
I'll work 2 Job's if I have to.
I'll mortgage my House.
Sell my Car's.
Whatever it take's.
WHY, cause nobody, I repeat Nobody is going to keep My son from reaching his Goal. the EH
Observer - it is funny.
Its like watching TV - and the picture is a person watching a TV - who is watching a picture of a person watching a TV etc...
Its like watching TV - and the picture is a person watching a TV - who is watching a picture of a person watching a TV etc...
I must say that I never viewed moderating (as opposed to owning and operating the site) as all that tough of a job -- paid or unpaid -- although I could be wrong. Perhaps it comes from my point of view that if a certain thread somehow becomes a problem, it does not have to be read. It is interesting, though: I am making this comment without having read a single post of the thread in question. As a former reporter, I just have always believed that most folks are best equipped to make their own choices as to what to read and what to ignore. If it is boring or repetitive -- as many of the problem posts are -- then they will die a relatively quick death of their own, along with the poster.
So where is my line: probably when it comes to profanity.
So where is my line: probably when it comes to profanity.
Ramrod...listen to TR....IMHO...he has it right.....I sent a PM to a poster friend saying the same thing....that I thought you were carrying a heavy cross.....
The powers to be don't concern me.....but....why give them excuses to do what they do? How effective can anyone be if they keep getting shut down? If you feel your message is that important then you need to deliver it a different way.....'cause in case you haven't noticed...it's not working here....your way.
Jemaz.......
The powers to be don't concern me.....but....why give them excuses to do what they do? How effective can anyone be if they keep getting shut down? If you feel your message is that important then you need to deliver it a different way.....'cause in case you haven't noticed...it's not working here....your way.
Jemaz.......
Jemaz,
Following that line of reasoning - anyone can come on here - not use profanity - and degrade and debase anyone they want?
Or they can spew venom?
That isnt what this site is about IMO. That isnt what made this site great IMO.
That may be good for the newspapers - but I hope that will never be allowed to happen here.
IMO
Following that line of reasoning - anyone can come on here - not use profanity - and degrade and debase anyone they want?
Or they can spew venom?
That isnt what this site is about IMO. That isnt what made this site great IMO.
That may be good for the newspapers - but I hope that will never be allowed to happen here.
IMO
.
It's...
Karmrectamundo!
44
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It's...
quote:Its like watching TV - and the picture is a person watching a TV - who is watching a picture of a person watching a TV etc...
Karmrectamundo!
44.
quote:I must say that I never viewed moderating (as opposed to owning and operating the site) as all that tough of a job -- paid or unpaid -- although I could be wrong.
quote:I am making this comment without having read a single post of the thread in question
Says it all.
jemaz - your views on moderating are close to my own. I started this thread to try and understand how to be a better moderator. I fully support Big and the decision that was made. I do not see it as a power trip either.
Personal opinions do play a role. Along with profanity or lewd language, I don't care for disparaging remarks regarding amateur ball players or private citizens - public figures are fair game. My concern about the Bonds thread was that it may shoe away a newer member or give the wrong impression.
Personal opinions do play a role. Along with profanity or lewd language, I don't care for disparaging remarks regarding amateur ball players or private citizens - public figures are fair game. My concern about the Bonds thread was that it may shoe away a newer member or give the wrong impression.
It's:
I guess I would put it that way: most adults are very capable of deciding for themselves, and if someone goes too far those situations tend to take care of themselves. The dilemma posed with your point of view is that one individual's definition of spewing venom may actually provide insight for someone else. Who gets to decide?
Obviously a moderator has that power, but I just believe it is far better used judiciously -- both for the moderator and for general readers of the site. As for newspapers, I would expect a lesser degree of discretion there than here. But, again, that's only my personal point of view in what keeps a dynamic and valuable site dynamic and valuable.
Once that is lost, it is very hard to get it back and eventually the site loses its edge and usefulness and tends to fade away.
I understand it can go the other way as well, but I also believe it is harder to lose focus in the other direction.
I guess I would put it that way: most adults are very capable of deciding for themselves, and if someone goes too far those situations tend to take care of themselves. The dilemma posed with your point of view is that one individual's definition of spewing venom may actually provide insight for someone else. Who gets to decide?
Obviously a moderator has that power, but I just believe it is far better used judiciously -- both for the moderator and for general readers of the site. As for newspapers, I would expect a lesser degree of discretion there than here. But, again, that's only my personal point of view in what keeps a dynamic and valuable site dynamic and valuable.
Once that is lost, it is very hard to get it back and eventually the site loses its edge and usefulness and tends to fade away.
I understand it can go the other way as well, but I also believe it is harder to lose focus in the other direction.
Then perhaps you should have taken your own advice the other day- and not body slammed me without knowing the facts.
Perhaps?
Perhaps?
IMO - There are alot of great people here who volunteer to moderate - spend alot of their free time doing it - and go out of their way to be fair and keep things entertaining - and civil.
It is alot harder to do that than it is to sit back - read a few posts - and criticize them.
After moderating for awhile - I realized I do not have the patience to deal with the back seat drivers - and the nutcases. Just not in my nature I guess.
It also made me respect the moderators who are willing to do the job - absorb cheap shots - and just keep on helping Julie.
IMO
It is alot harder to do that than it is to sit back - read a few posts - and criticize them.
After moderating for awhile - I realized I do not have the patience to deal with the back seat drivers - and the nutcases. Just not in my nature I guess.
It also made me respect the moderators who are willing to do the job - absorb cheap shots - and just keep on helping Julie.
IMO
LadyN,
Your post disappeared - but I will address it anyway.
Actually - I think it stinks.
I think it is a cheap shot convention - by a bunch of back seat drivers who are too lazy to try it on themselves - or too busy slipping in additional insults in a very subtle fashion.
That is what I think.
Your post disappeared - but I will address it anyway.
Actually - I think it stinks.
I think it is a cheap shot convention - by a bunch of back seat drivers who are too lazy to try it on themselves - or too busy slipping in additional insults in a very subtle fashion.
That is what I think.