Division III Campus Visits

Not allowed.

Someone correct me if I am wrong, I think the only division allowed to tryout players is D2.

Jucos and D2 are the only divisions that permit a "tryout".

When my son went on his D3 visits, he observed practice but wasn't allowed to participate in anyway.

Interesting topic - I had a mom tell me today that her 2011 son had recently "worked out" for a DI coach, and received a scholarship offer yesterday. I'm confused. Is a "tryout" and a "workout" the same thing?

The rule for D1:
13.11.1 Prohibited Activities. A member institution, on its campus or elsewhere, shall not conduct (or have conducted on its behalf) any physical activity (e.g., practice session or test/tryout) at which one or more prospective student-athletes (as defined in Bylaws 13.11.1.1 and 13.11.1.2) reveal, demonstrate or display their athletics abilities in any sport except as provided in Bylaws 13.11.2 and 13.11.3.

13.11.2 and 13.11.3 list a lot of exceptions; the most obvious of these is a baseball camp. College coaches may be involved with a travel team as long as the players live within a 50 mile radius. Open events at the college campus are also permitted; to be open, there shouldn't be much restriction on who can participate.

What about NAIA? Going to be hauling the HS rising senior around with us this summer and trying to stir up some 'show me' opportunities for him. Unfortunately we're not back home long enough to get him on a team, and we're missing the couple of showcase events we would have liked to get him into.

Forgive my ignorance, but this would not include players that have graduated already would it?

Krakatoa,
Article II.C of the NAIA Bylaws say that schools may provide tryouts, but only on-campus. The tryouts may not exceed two days, and do not constitute practice (for NAIA), even if team members participate.

BayouE,
The key phrase in 13.11.1 is "prospective student-athlete", which applies to anyone who has entered the ninth grade. A player remains a prospective student-athlete until he enters a 4 year school. So the rule does apply to player who have graduated from high school.

What about official visits for D-III. Do the D-III schools pay for transportation, etc for official visits?

I don't believe they are called "official visits" in D3 but 3FG can clear that up. My son took 3 of what coaches called "officials" to D3 schools. In each case we payed for transportation but the schools payed for everything else. My son had a great time and went to some great parties, practices, classes, and football games. Just like in his D1 official visits. He chose a D3 over a D1 based on the success of one these visits, and to a school he would have never considered at the start of the process. He really liked the coach during a short meeting at a showcase but had some concerns about the school after our unofficial visit. But, during an official visit you can really see what life is like at a school... beyond the BS in the college guides and rankings. In two weeks he's leaving us for his new life and we are very proud of the mature choice he made after superior due dilligence.

All three NCAA divisions permit official visits, and round trip travel expenses may be paid by the institution (although limousines and helicopters may not be used!).

Meals, tickets, etc may be provided during the visit.

See 13.6 in the manuals.

quote:

Originally posted by 3FingeredGlove:
All three NCAA divisions permit official visits, and round trip travel expenses MAY be paid by the institution (although limousines and helicopters may not be used!).

Meals, tickets, etc MAY be provided during the visit.

See 13.6 in the manuals.

As a recruit, various institutions may have their own budgets on official visits. Don't take the fact that some schools do not pay for visits as a lack of interest in your son.

quote:

As a recruit, various institutions may have their own budgets on official visits. Don't take the fact that some schools do not pay for visits as a lack of interest in your son.

HR04 is precisely correct, especially at the DIII level.
I would propose that the vast majority of DIII's do not offer "official" or fully paid visits. There is small number apparently that do.
At the DIII level, there usually is not a budget to permit payment for the travel. Also, at DIII, the school cannot offer any type of inducement or opportunity to an athlete that is not available to the general population.
In general, once you get to the City, the coaches will handle everything from there in a way that closely mirrors an official visit in terms of interaction with the team, arranging for classroom and academic orientation, staying in the dorm/meals and the like.
You can also be assured that the coach, if they are inviting your son to visit a DIII school, is very interested in your son, even though they cannot pay to get him there.

It seems silly that at DIII the coaches can let you participate in one practice, but it's not allowed. As for payment for travel, most DIII recruit fairly locally (1-4 hrs away), therefore, cost is not usually that big of an issue. It takes time to visit, but definitely worth it for schools you are seriously considering.

That's ATTEND practice. Not participate.

Infielddad seems to mirror 4thGen's experience. He did have a couple of DIII's offer him travel expenses and there was no difference between his visits to DIs and DIIIs. He did attend one camp at a DI but other then that he did not work out for anyone. There were some DIIIs that were recruiting him hard who did not offer him travel expenses and others that we let know we would not accept expenses from since he was planning to visit multiple schools on the same trip. We observed a few practices along the way but he was never expected to participate.

Just to make sure there is no confusion, a recruit to a DIII program is NOT permitted to participate in a practice with the team while on a visit and cannot work out for a DIII coach.

This bring up some questions for me.

1) I understand there are 5 official visits allowed. Is that 5 for D1, 5 for DII etc. or total of 5 per for any division of NCAA?
2) has anyone taken an invitation for an "official" visit and made an an "unofficial" by not allowing the University to pay for things but using it as an opportunity to speak to the coach, watch practice, talk to players/teachers? 2011 has had an invite and likes the Univ. but is not sure he wants to make it one of his 5 official visits.

Thanks. Nuke

Your son is permitted a total of 5 official visits to NCAA schools.
He is certainly permitted to turn down an offer of an official visit, pay his expenses and use the visit at unofficial. It does happen.
What is becoming more normal with early verbals, however, is the visits are occurring before July 1 following the junior year. As a result, they are unofficial and those with an early verbal "usually" only take one official visit.

For D1 and D2 combined, 5 total visits are allowed. Another 5 are allowed after October 15 following HS graduation.

There is no limit for D3 official visits, and D3 visits don't count in the 5 allowed for D1/D2.

3FG, I am hesitant to question and would have fully agreed with you until I learned that apparently some DIII programs do offer official visits.
I am not sure how a DIII can offer official and fully paid visits for baseball but others posted on this site that their son received them.
That was not our experience and I still don't quite understand how it could be done in the broader DIII requirement of no preference in admission or matriculation for athletics.
If a DIII does offer a fully paid official visit, does that not get included in the 5?

Here's the D1 bylaw:
13.6.2.2 Number of Official Visits—Prospective Student-Athlete Limitation. A prospective student-athlete may take a maximum of five expense-paid visits, with no more than one permitted to any single institution. This restriction applies regardless of the number of sports in which the prospective student-athlete is involved and only for expense-paid visits to Divisions I or II institutions.

For D2, the bylaw is 13.6.1.2, and the text is the same.

D3 also lists the rules on official visits in 13.6, but it has no corresponding rule limiting the number a player takes. (All 3 divisions limit the player to one visit to any particular college.)

Thanks 3FG. I figured there was a reason for my to be hesitant and nervous to question.
With your information, I am even more scratching my head as to how DIII's could offer paid/official visits but it is clear there isn't a limit on the number.

[QUOTE]I still don't quite understand how it could be done in the broader DIII requirement of no preference in admission or matriculation for athletics. /QUOTE]

Infielddad:

I'd really like to see where that is spelled out. Half a dozen DIII programs we spoke to talked openly about how they could help with admissions. I am talking about some of the top academic programs in the country. Your post surprised me and I'd like to read the rules for myself.

ditto 3G- admissions help (not a guarantee) is what the D3 schools (at the highest academic level) were trading for a Nov 1 ED commitment.

Sorry for the confusion.
I was speaking to the issue of paid visits by a DIII program. Last year there was a thread like this where posters indicated DIII schools paid for the trip to visit, including the travel as would happen for a DI official visit.
I don't understand how a school at the DIII level could pay for a visit by a baseball player unless they offer to pay for the visit of every potential student.
As to admission issues, they vary by DIII. But those that provide support for athletics can certainly do so provided they provide similar support for other outside activities such as music, theater and the like. No issue there. They cannot favor sports in admissions, just treat it with equal admission "preference" to other non-athletic factors that contribute to the collegiate experience and diversity of experience.

quote:

I don't understand how a school at the DIII level could pay for a visit by a baseball player unless they offer to pay for the visit of every potential student.

Well, first of all, the D3 manual says they can in Bylaw 13.6, and says nothing about offering similar treatment to non-athletes.
Secondly, here's an excerpt from the DIVISION III PHILOSOPHY STATEMENT (again from the D3 Manual).
......
(h) Assure that athletics recruitment complies with established institutional policies and procedures applicable to the admission process;
(i) Assure that academic performance of student-athletes is, at a minimum, consistent with that of the general student body;
(j) Assure that admission policies for student-athletes comply with policies and procedures applicable to the general student body;
.....

Note that items (i) and (j) require that athletes be treated the same as non-athletes, in admissions and academic performance. But (h) only requires compliance with established policies and procedures, and doesn't indicate that the policy must apply to all potential students.

Can DIII official visits occur in your Junior year of HS? I know you can't in DI and DII. I also know that you can go to unofficial visits DI,DII,DIII during your Junior and Senior years.


Thanks,
RR23

For all NCAA divisions: A prospective student-athlete may not be provided an official visit earlier than the opening day of classes of the prospective student-athlete’s senior year in high school.

Unofficial vists can occur at any time except during a dead period (D1: roughly the early NLI week, 4 days at the beginning of the regular NLI date, and during the National Coaches convention; D2: 48 hours before the NLI dates; D3 has no dead period).

They can be made while the player is any age or grade.

We are new to this part of the process for son and trying to have a clue before son returns communication...

"After looking into you more we would be honored to have you on campus for a campus tour to get you more familiar with our school and facilities."

Would this be interpreted as an invite for an official visit?
If so, what types of things are typically paid for?
Are these visits typically done on weekends or during the week while school is in?
If during the week, is it normal to miss school for such visits? With any luck, we'll have more than one, so missing school becomes a factor.
Are there any recommended questions son should ask about the visit when he first communicates? (He is familiar with the school and knows he likes it).
Sorry for the shotgun approach... looking for any and all help and I know I'm in the right place.

Cabbage,

Congrats on the DIII interest. Mood Jr. has had a few similar invitations. It's been pretty standard that the folks would like you to visit during the week when school is in session to get a real feel of what the environment is like.

Regarding missing school for visits I believe most high schools accept and encourage their seniors to take college visit days. I would check with your son's school to see if there are a limit of these days before they are counted as unexcused absences.

Good luck!

Son of a gun, the old thread I started 18 months ago, researched and revived with new questions. Now that my son is a first-year at his D3 college, I can relate some details of his overnight campus visits of Fall 2010.

1. We paid for the travel for each visit. This entailed airline travel. Since the schools were on his “short-short list” we were fine with paying for travel, as a visit would be essential in our mind even if he was not a recruited baseball player.
2. My son always traveled alone for each visit, this was our family decision. If he was considering going far away to school, he better get used to traveling alone right away.
3. The head coach always picked him up and got him back to the airport
4. He stayed in the dorms, with another player/s
5. He paid no expenses on campus – this included three square meals a day in the dining halls
6. He was provided free admission to campus sporting events
7. The coaches scheduled his interviews with the Admissions Office
8. He was scheduled into and attended a couple of classes in subjects of his choosing
9. He attended practice, but only allowed to watch from the dugout/grandstand
10. The HC for each of his top four school choices told him and us, very directly, that he was able to “support” our son’s application as a tagged recruit through admissions, with an emphasis on trying to obtain an Early Decision application from my son. This was not a "guarantee" of admission, but “sponsorship.” This was described as the same support a gifted violin player would receive from the Music Department, for instance, on their application.
11. Son’s HS teachers fully supported his absences for these types of college visits, giving time to make-up work, etc.

Good luck on your visits. My son’s overnight visits definitely solidified my son’s final choice without a doubt.

Mood and Rake,
Thanks for the info!

I'll have to dig a bit on this but I thought I saw a reference in the NCAA regs that said the Official Visits to DIII schools would not be counted against the total IF, emphasizing IF, the student ended up enrolling in a DIII.

#1 Son had first campus visit last week.

The coach had asked if he would like to come down have lunch see the campus and spend the night with a player.

In a nutshell he had a great visit. The coach was very sincere, great conversations. Not only on his baseball program but the academics as well. He really stressed the academic side.

We left on a good note, coach said they were very interested and would be in touch soon.

I hope the other visits go as well.