Do I approach a recruiter?

That was the point I was trying to make earlier that many seem to believe there is one way to do this whole recruiting thing.  Honestly, that one way may be right 99% of the time, but as I have said in other posts, I am a case by case guy. Some situations are different.  The quality of the recruit is different.  The parents are different.  The coaching staff is different.

 

Good post there JBB. Son spent many seasons close by but rarely did we go up to watch him in the backfields. And when we did we didn't talk to him until we left the field.  He was working.  That field was his office.

 

The issue, IMO, is that people just don't think and respect the process that coaches/players are going through (doing their job).  I know that some people complain that ML players wont acknowledge the masses. The issue is that they are doing their job and all people approach that differently. I know at many AA and AAA games  they have the players on the concourse to sign autographs, this essentially means, don't bother them while they are on the field.

 

Thinking that its the polite thing to do or if that guy thinks that saying hello and shaking his hand is over the top (who said here that is what they might think) and then I don't want my son playing for a guy like that has nothing to do with it. And younger vs older coach has nothing to do with it either.  

 

Once again,  when that coach is getting close to offering your son an opportunity is when he will ask to speak with you or you can ask to speak to him, if that makes you feel better about sending your son on a journey (that you met the guy).  Respect his space and respect that he is working.

 

 

I think we said that, all situations are different, if you son is highly recruited than its different, if you son is not a senior than its different, if your son throws 95 than its different, if he has a special relationship with your son than its different, if you have met him before than its different,  if he has offered your son a scholarship than its different.

 

But being the polite thing to do doesn't mean that at the particular time it is the polite thing to do.

 

Anyway, I think that the OP gets it and at this point that may be all that matters.

 

Getting up from your desk to go meet someone who dropped by to meet you , really is very irrelevant to recruiting and YES, someday, one will without a doubt see things differently after they have been through it. I know that I do, we made some mistakes but I guess that is the only way to learn.

 

Once again reread Prepster's post, its by far the best advice one can give.

My son went thru a wild ride last spring and had something like 20-30 people watching him a couple of games that he pitched. He was a HS senior that had a week earlier lit up a radar gun. I SO wanted to go up and say HI, I wanted to stalk them when they raised the radar guns. It about killed me not to. Because I was excited for my son's opportunity and wanted to be in the know.

 

I resisted (again about killed me   ), sat in the stands or hung with the other HS dads like I always did. After those games, 4-8 of them came and talked to my son and then his mom and I.  The others left never said a word to son, or me.

 

The ones that talked to us were the ones interested and ultimately some of those made an offer. The others obviously weren't and we never heard from them.

 

I do have to say that 4 of them came up to me  before the game to say hi, but we had already met.

 

For me saying hi casually as you walk by like you would anyone is is fine, otherwise let it be. As FYI, I survived not talking to al of them, but barely

I don't think that coaches want to be perceived as "good guys".  

 

The reality is that after the recruiting process is done, things change for many (or most). Once the player sets foot on campus, then A LOT changes. They will call home

and tell you it wasn't the same guy you or mom met at the field or at recruiting while in HS.

 

That warm fuzzy communication becomes a business one, and most of the time the player or his family are not prepared.

 

There are few things us "old timers" rarely talk about, and the first semester with that wonderful guy who recruited your son is one of them.

 

Some things you all really have to find out for yourselves. Take the advice offered from where it is coming from, do what you wish with it, its your choice, these are opinions, nothing written in stone.

 

Good post.

For the recruiters I've known over the years, self-importance has rarely been the obstacle. Rather, it's the combination of several other elements:

(1) The fact that more than a handful of parents have wanted much more than the simple "hello" wished for by some in this thread. Instead, some view it as their golden opportunity to chat up the coach; regaling him with all of Little Johnnie's accomplishments. This is one of life's many unfortunate instances of a few spoiling things for the well-meaning many. However, it happens frequently enough in the recruiter's experience to make him a bit gun shy when a parent approaches. After all, both the benign and the caustic conversations begin with "hello" and a handshake.

(2) As others have pointed out here, recruiters are usually there to observe a great deal; on the field, in the dugout, and in the bullpen. There's a lot to take in, and a casual conversation threatens to cause the recruiter to miss something that might have been worth observing.

(3) From the recruiter's perspective, there's nothing more critically important to his program's success than the evaluation, identification, and recruitment of the "right" players. So, if he seems pretty locked in and serious about what he's doing when he's there, there's a pretty good reason for it.

I like this post a lot.  Very informative without being too preachy...

I like this post a lot.  Very informative without being too preachy...

I agree!  It was a very insightful post...as usual with Prepster.  Add to that the fact that his son is a highly decorated former D1 player at a top-10 program, and now a coach and recruiter in on of the toughest D1 conferences in America....yeah, his posts here are worth re-reading a few times.  (BTW, having met him and watched games together once or twice, he's also a super human being!).

 

But ryno - you are feeling a bit "preachy" to me in this thread.  Something bothering you?

 

Again, no one is saying there is just one way as  you alluded to again above.  Just folks offering opinions/advice based on experiences...including mistakes...that we all made. 

I'm sure the RC's head won't explode if you go up to him and say hello or talk a bit about whatever....people are funny, odd and some are flat out, a holes. I'd imagine alot of parents have run up to those guys and blathered on etc....trust me, when they want your kid they will listen to your crap forever. Have fun with it, put on a clown's nose and walk up with a horn and see what kind of reaction you get....video that if you do...i bet it's priceless.

We will agree to disagree.  I think there are a few on this site that are very "preachy" and there posts come off as there is only one way to do things. 

 

On me being too "preachy", probably true. I apologize for that.  I do get excited some times, and maybe don't always see the forest through the trees, and I am never one to shy away from a good debate. 

As informative as this board is, I also keep my eyes open and observe when I'm out and about.  What I saw at varsity HS games last spring and travel games last summer and fall, is a lot of college coaches positioning themselves (sometimes in groups) away from the parents.  I'd imagine that is done for a reason.  And it's not because they aren't friendly, but because they're there to do a job.  And no matter how much I love my son, there is NOTHING that I can tell a prospective coach that will make him recruit my son. If he has a need and he thinks that my son could fill that role, then he will have a conversation with my son.

 

As my son is a 2017, there's no way that I would approach a coach (even if we've met before) and risk the perception of an NCAA violation by the coach.  Best I do in that circumstance is wave and smile, should he see me.  My son has always handled his own business, so he knows a lot more coaches then I do.

 

Here's how I look at my son's role: be a good young man, work hard in school, work hard in baseball.  My role?  I do the behind the scenes stuff.  If a program is interested in him I may speak with people on here, people I know, and do a little digging.  In areas that my son doesn't even know about at his age.

 

When the time comes, and if they are truly interested in my son, then I'll meet the coach.  But by that point all of us will have done our homework.

 

All of this being said... there is an acquaintance of mine that walks around with his iPad and all of his kid's Gamechanger stats since he was 10u (no, I am not kidding) in the event that he sees a college coach.  Personally, if I were him, I'd concentrate more on helping his kid elevate himself from the 3rd string 3B spot on his JV team.   But that's just me.

 

 

That my friend, is sad. I know similar Dads who's kids arent what they were at 10-14. Pray for mercy and peace upon their souls...it's very hard on them to have zero control.

Okay I have to ask the dumb question.....if they are trying to keep themselves away from the parents, and only there to do their job...why dress up in the clothing items that identify them as the scout/HC/AC...of such and such organization?  Why not go all sunglasses and trench coats and then after the game take off their disguise if they want to talk to a player?

I just can't put a finger on the person you are referring.  

I was sitting next to a recruiter at a recent game of ours who had come to watch the lefty pitcher for the other team. I asked him how hard the kid was throwing,  and he was nice enough to tell me.   "Not that hard.  Only  85,"  the recruiter said,  "but obviously they aren't seeing the ball."  Cause the he  was darting pitches in and out and was missing many bats.  Our guys looked silly against him. 

 

He pulled out his gun on our guy too -- one of our lesser arms.  I asked him "so how hard is our guy throwing."

 

His response.

 

"Topping out at 72.  A little better than little league."

 

"That was cold,"  I thought to myself.   Better to sit in silence when you are next to a recruiter, I thought.  You never know what you might be told otherwise.

Yeah, that's a terrible remark. 

I consistently see 70-75 mph at our level in high school.  The fact that these pitchers won't make D1 doesn't mean they are bit better than little league pitchers.  

I would have asked the recruiter if you could win a Cy Young in MLB averaging mid 80's velocity mph.  And then informed him of Greg Maddux stats. 

 

It is sad and I didn't say it to mock the person, but because I really feel for them.  The truth is that EVERY kid has their passion in life, something that they will really excel at.  It has always been my suggestion to help your child find what they love, not what you want them to love.

 

I am assuming that you are joking?

Maybe it was his way of saying, enough with the questions?

Maybe some of us are a bit "preachy". But there are also many here who are very "naive".

Good post, I think that you "get it".  

 

 

Thanks to a lot of listening to people like yourself, I'm certainly getting there. 

 

Um...I know of at least five 7th graders throwing 70+....is there really not a lot of increase between 7th grade velocity and high schoolers?

 

It's more a matter of how hard those "elite" 7th graders will work between now and HS. Some players (and even their parents) think there is a point where you are done. You're at the top of your game.  

 

A player won't get better every day, but he should be working as hard as he can to make it possible.  

 

I can only speak for 3A district baseball in my area. I checked velocity on every pitcher last year and there was only two kids that threw 82-84 consistently. 

 

So far this year my son is throwing 82 mph consistently.  And that is probably one of the three top speeds in our district.  We faced a team last week where both pitchers were throwing upper 60's.   And yes, this is Varsity.  

 

Just talked to my son's travel coach and he was saying my son to expect mid to high 80's out of most aces on 16U travel teams. 

Just a guess but probably the HS kid throwing 70+ wasn't throwing 70+ as a 7th grader.  The top HS hurlers reach into the low 90's probably,  but those are rare studs.  I think a lot of very hard working HS pitchers, with good mechanics, good off season strength and conditioning regimens  may eventually reach into the  low to mid 80's.

 

But I suspect that yeah a lot of kids never experience a serious uptake in velocity -- especially if they don't really work their tails off for it.  

 

Most of those kids will be done after HS.

 

 

At 82 mph he is above HS average, so he must be putting work in.

 

It depends on the Athlete. If the 7th grader is throwing 70 plus due to him hitting puberty and not due to athletic ability and mechanics, it may be that he does not get faster. If the kid is throwing 70 and has not hit puberty and he throws 70 due to mechanics and some inherit ability then yes his velocity will probably improve. 

It is really a case by case basis. 

You know I was going to try and let this go, but I just can't.

 

I started off by saying it was a dumb question, many people know my kid is 12, how on earth would I know why a coach just didn't disguise himself if he didn't want to talk to people? 

 

We have MANY newbies on the board currently so for their sake, and mine, I will fall on the sword over here and say NOPE NOT JOKING, just new and asking a question.

CaCOgirl. I think velo is all over the place in HS baseball. From 90 + to 73/75. Generally, the harder you throw, the more time on the mound as long as you can throw strikes, but I have seen some very effective mid 70's pitcher in HS. They aren't being recruited but they can compete in HS. Most HS if you have 2 in mid 80's you are very lucky. Last year my son's team had lots of pitching. he was 90 or so, but had 3 others in 82-84 range, then a lefty in 78-81 range as 5th starter. All seniors. This year that lefty would have been the #1 

 

AS FYI, at 12 my son and those other 3 82-84 boys all threw about 70

No Thread-Jack intended......Smoke, Velo, Ched,Heat, Cheese, aka velocity is the Siren of the Seas, the proverbial "Milkshake" that brings all the boys to the yard with their radar guns. Touching a number, living or sitting at a range of velocity...all interpretive in the context that you can spin it, although it's a piece of data, a hard figure.. into whatever you want it to be. I'll offer a few examples i've read of heard about..

 

The "max effort" guy who, although he throws 95, folks think he can't increase that number and hence...his 95 isn't like the "easy" 95 from the other guy. This kid always threw harder than anyone and hasn't hit his ceiling yet but, he's labeled as max effort. 

The "projectable" guys, who are scratching at low 90's but sitting in the 88-90 range that are your prototypical D1 and MLB pitchers with "upside" which by all means eradicates any requirement to throw harder to gain attraction by most. Some even look like are falling out of trees when they throw...still the lovefest continues.

 

And the smaller guys who aren't projectable but are athletic, "fast twitch" guys who can run it up there 94-96 on occasion but aren't built for the rigors of pro ball and the season due to their smaller frames.

 

All these pitchers throw hard enough, even when velo isn't, i repeat is not going to make you successful in Elite D1 ball or the bigs. From what i hear, they all catch up to you eventually after seeing that cheese a few times.

 

Velo is whatever you want to make it or as applicable as you want it to be if you like certain pitchers.

 

Kids that throw 75 vs us this year  in HS ball, and stay away with effectiveness can shut us down, that's a fact.

 

The struggle is real.

To be honest I think my son's improvement has come from the fact that he threw the football a lot in practice as Varsity QB.  He did long toss few times a week between football and baseball but hasn't done any extra work beyond what they do in practice. 

Between school work and a part time job and the fact that I'm paranoid about his arm health I don't encourage him to throw any extra. 

 

Whether my son will make it to the college level remains to be seen but I do believe there are those with natural abilities to throw the baseball hard. 

 

I think the football and long toss helped him.  I also believe you are correct in that some kids have a gift when it comes to throwing a baseball.  Just as others have a gift in their ability to hit, draw, teach, or wherever their passion will lie.

 

CaCO,
Just not sure of your question. Thats how they identify themselves.   Isnt it?

That doesnt mean they are advertising for anyone can come to talk to them.

In short, I mean if they have bad experiences with the dad showing a kids stats since 9u and on...or they don't want to get involved with a parental conversation for a kid they are likely not into, or for the abundance of reasons listed above that they just would prefer not to talk to to people/parents.....logic would dictate they don't show up in 5 articles of clothing showing what school they are from....why not just dress like someone's Uncle Sal and pretend to just watch the game like a normal person rather than dressed in identifying garb?

Been on a long drive...  missed a lot.  Caught up on my reading!  1. Some preachiness here?  YES.  Ok to talk to recruiter? In the OP's situation, YES.  Somehow this turned into random parent A just walking up to a group of scouts with no idea who they are here to see...   not apples to apples.  Should you respect people in situations where they need to not be disturbed?  YES.  Now for the velocity thing (again), velocity is important.  NO a D1 program is not going to recruit a kid in the low 80's.  NO I don't believe there are very many kids who throw 70 at 12 and 75 at 17.  I am so tired of this ages old belief that the earth is littered with kids who were good at a certain age and then disappeared later.  Sounds a lot like people trying to convince themselves Johnny still has a chance to be great even if he is throwing 65mph as a sophomore.  And YES 70mph is just a little better than LL!  But also YES we see a lot of kids still in 70's at the varsity level.   Even saw a couple in a small college game.  But NO these guys will not get people out at a higher level I don't care how good their control is.

It is mystifying why they would need to identify themselves if they don't want to be approached...

Many professional scouts show up without team-identifying clothes on, but they still stick out like sore thumbs...and they still attract their share of "hellos" and questions from parents. When you see someone raise a radar gun with each pitch, use a stopwatch to time certain player actions, and take notes, it's pretty apparent that this is not Uncle Sal watching the game.

 

 

       
       
Caco I have seen scouts who don't wear any team gear maybe partially for that reason.  Others completely deck themselves out and most seem to be somewhere between.  Maybe just a hat or just a pullover etc.  However once they carry their bag in, pull out stalkers, notes and stopwatches...  well their cover is kind of blown anyway.  So they might as well advertise a little bit for their school/franchise.  Not like people won't know they are scouts.  And just a side note here while I have never spoken to a scout as a parent (hopefully that day will come) I certainly have as a coach and observer.  I have never had a bad experience with one.  They have always been nice, cordial, and usually possess a great sense of humor.  So when I say if they take offense to you talking to them they are a little too self important I say it from the standpoint that I really don't think many of them would take offense.  Now rambling on and going to the extremes like the I Pad guy (somehow we always get to the way off exceptions!) Yes I imagine they would take exception to that.