Do or Die 3-0, do YOU take?

If a hitter takes a rip at a 3-0 pitch up twenty runs he better hit the ball in fair territory. If he has to face another pitch it's going to be ugly. In a twenty run game there are protocols to follow.

I agree with RJM, and I think everyone else will too.

So I'll weigh in on just swinging with a 3-0 count in general. We usually don't allow our hitters to swing away except in certian situations.

I think weighing a batter's baseball IQ is just as important as his skill level 3-0. There are a handful of players that will swing 3-0 if you don't give them the take sign no matter what, just because they're use to having the take sign.

We actually had a situation like this come up last week. The back half of my line up is struggling right now. We have a runner at 2nd and 1 out. The kid at the plate is a smart hitter and has no problems going the other way. The kids behind him I didn't have as much faith in. We let him hit away and he took it right back up the middle.

That filled my one good coaching call quota for the week. Gotta keep the standard low.

Did anyone catch Japan hit and run 3-0 in the WBC?

quote:

Did anyone catch Japan hit and run 3-0 in the WBC?

If there is a runner on first or first and second, this is just about the safest thing you can imagine. If the pitch is going to obviously miss the strike zone, the batter can just lay off. If it is near the strike zone, it's relatively easy to make contact, and probably will advance the runner(s) two bases. Even with R1 and R3, the play has merit.

3FG. It was beautiful! I want to say it was only the first or second inning when they were playing USA. I felt pretty good about USA's chances but as soon as I saw that I was glad I didn't bet the keys to my 2001 CRV!

Japan just plays on a whole other level and does things and sees things that the rest of us don't even think of. I have US flags on my boxers right now but I LOVE how Japan plays the game...I promise I still love America, though!

3-0 count in a normal game, not a 20-0 blowout

01-- depends on the game score and situation

02-- even more it depends on who the batter is

03-- I do not see how a blanket statement covers this

04-- ever think of dropping a bunt in this situation? nobody would see that coming

I treat 3-0 like 2-0. Your sitting on your pitch and if you get it punish it. If not take it and start the process over again.

My philosophy is your up there to hit. You worked a hitters count. Why would you want to just give it away? When you allow hitters to learn how to make these decisions you allow them to grow as hitters. When you are constantly making those decisions for them from the 3B coaching box dont get mad when they dont learn.

Teach guys how to hit , teach them a solid approach both mentally and mechanically and then shut the hel up and let them play the game. Eventually if you let them they will learn. Some will learn they are a better hitter if they just take on 3-0. Some will learn they can really punish in 3-0 counts when they sit on one pitch one spot and are disciplined. But none of them learn when someone else makes all the decisions for them.

I know I am a renegade when it comes to alot of stuff like this. But I like to think it gives my hitters confidence and it makes the game a whole lot more fun. And I know it makes them better. I am not nearly as concerned with winning a game as I am with developing baseball players.

quote:

I know I am a renegade when it comes to alot of stuff like this. But I like to think it gives my hitters confidence and it makes the game a whole lot more fun. And I know it makes them better. I am not nearly as concerned with winning a game as I am with developing baseball players.

Coach you're not a renegade - you're my kind of coach. I agree with everything you said 100%.

quote:

I treat 3-0 like 2-0. Your sitting on your pitch and if you get it punish it. If not take it and start the process over again.

Thank you coach, I know that most will say sit on the pitch.
But i've just seen to many batters after sitting on the 3-0,
Strike out on the next 2 pitches. When the 3-0 was grooved right down the middle.
I know the odds but it not always about the odds but about the confidence the coach has in your hitting ability,
JMO
EH

quote:

Originally posted by Coach May:
I treat 3-0 like 2-0. Your sitting on your pitch and if you get it punish it. If not take it and start the process over again.

My philosophy is your up there to hit. You worked a hitters count. Why would you want to just give it away? When you allow hitters to learn how to make these decisions you allow them to grow as hitters. When you are constantly making those decisions for them from the 3B coaching box dont get mad when they dont learn.

Teach guys how to hit , teach them a solid approach both mentally and mechanically and then shut the hel up and let them play the game. Eventually if you let them they will learn. Some will learn they are a better hitter if they just take on 3-0. Some will learn they can really punish in 3-0 counts when they sit on one pitch one spot and are disciplined. But none of them learn when someone else makes all the decisions for them.

I know I am a renegade when it comes to alot of stuff like this. But I like to think it gives my hitters confidence and it makes the game a whole lot more fun. And I know it makes them better. I am not nearly as concerned with winning a game as I am with developing baseball players.

Coach May nailed it! I like his thought process and I think my hitters would too! We take, it's automatic. Sometimes it seems like its just the "safe" call. GED10DaD

Way too many variables.

I have had some players swing 3-0 even if the ball is out of the zone because he is a better hitter 3-1 than the next guy at 0-0.

I have some players that I give the take because of their speed a BB is an automatic double.

You have to play the percentages. Does that certain player have a better chance getting on base from taking 3-0 or swinging 3-0?

There aren't a lot of things that I disagree with my son's HS coach on, but this is one of them. I think I have seen him give green light once or twice in the 6 or so years I have watched.

If the batter has proven himself to be a good judge of pitches, why waste such an opportunity to drive the ball?

Like I stated I dont have a take sign. I try to teach hitters situations , counts , approach and then let them learn. If your never allowed to learn you will not learn. You will be looking down the line for guidance constantly. I have had players that were just not comfortable swinging at 3-0 so they always took. I have had others that loved that count and hunted the pitcher in hitters counts.

What you have to do is teach. If your player swings at a bad pitch on 3-0 and gets out you have to teach. "Were you looking in one spot for one pitch? Did you predetermine you were going to swing before the pitch was thrown? Did you relax or did you tighten up and feel pressure because you thought you were going to get a great pitch to hit? Well next time just relax and focus on seeing your pitch in your spot. Expect that pitch and be ready to swing. The decision is made for you , if its not your pitch let it go ball or strike."

Then make sure the kid knows he has your full confidence to go back up there the next ab with a 3-0 count and take what he has learned and grow from it. If you allow kids to make mistakes , if you allow them to make decisions , if you allow them to grow in the game they will be the best they can be. They will have fun. They will learn. And they will be able to teach your younger players as they come up.

If you constantly have to have control and you constantly have to make every decision for them you are not coaching. You are not teaching. You are micro manageing them and you are stiffling their growth as baseball players. What happens is the coach is so consumed with winning THAT game he sacrifices everything he needs to be actually teaching. The more you coach , the more you teach , the less you have to coach the less you have to teach. The players learn to coach each other and they learn to teach each other.

Soap Box time. But I firmly believe in this. The really good players coach themselves on the field during the game. They make adjustments to the game. They do not feel game pressure. They play with a swagger and with tremendous confidence. The total opposite happens with players and teams that are constantly micro managed. JMHO

Coach May,

Great post...atta,babe.

I think we need to arrange a speaking tour for you. I know alot of coaches that need to be introduced to some of your philosophies.

Somehow the teaching aspect of coaching got lost by some and instead became telling/dictating; and there is a big difference between the two.

Didn't think this thread would take off like this..maybe I'm just simple.

3-0 is a hitter's count. A HITTER should want to HIT the ball, no matter the count. If a kid is LOOKING for a walk, then he's not confident in his ability at the plate.

Sure situations can differ....

But no matter if it's bases open, no outs, and your up by 20, or even the bases loaded, tying run on 3rd...a hitter WANTS to hit the ball hard..period.

And the better guys will hit it more than they want.

I was discussing stats with a parent on the team. He's very numbers orientated, and does all the stats, but doesn't discuss it with anyone and I was surprised he was doing it until he mentioned it to me.

He said he was comparing the numbers from our 12U Travel guys vs his older son's School team and he said that we didn't see as many pitches (as a team) as the older guys....but our batting avg, slugging %, OBP, etc etc were all higher than the older team numbers. He asked me why?

I told him I thought that our kids were just more confident in wanting to hit the baseball...and were more aggressive because of it.


Again, maybe I'm just to simplistic...

quote:

Originally posted by Coach May:
I treat 3-0 like 2-0. Your sitting on your pitch and if you get it punish it. If not take it and start the process over again.

My philosophy is your up there to hit. You worked a hitters count. Why would you want to just give it away? When you allow hitters to learn how to make these decisions you allow them to grow as hitters. When you are constantly making those decisions for them from the 3B coaching box dont get mad when they dont learn.

Teach guys how to hit , teach them a solid approach both mentally and mechanically and then shut the hel up and let them play the game. Eventually if you let them they will learn. Some will learn they are a better hitter if they just take on 3-0. Some will learn they can really punish in 3-0 counts when they sit on one pitch one spot and are disciplined. But none of them learn when someone else makes all the decisions for them.

I know I am a renegade when it comes to alot of stuff like this. But I like to think it gives my hitters confidence and it makes the game a whole lot more fun. And I know it makes them better. I am not nearly as concerned with winning a game as I am with developing baseball players.

I like the way you think

I have a question for all you coaches. My sons college coach gives him a hit and run sign on 2-0. he is a good hitter and a lot of the parents dont get this. he does it to a lot of the hitters. But many times its a ball and he has to swing , and he makes contact 99.9 percent of the time. poor kid cant even check swing and he will make contact.
I was just wondering the philosophy behind a hit and run on 2-0.is that normal?
my sons hs coach really never gave my son signs, he just let him hit as coach may said and it does teach them to hit.
college seems different alot more signs, and I dont know if there necessary but i am a mom not a coach.

The premise is the pitcher is behind 2-0 and does not want to get behind 3-0 so he will throw a fb for a strike. That is why some coaches like to hit and run on 2-0 counts. Usually a hit and run is put on with certain batters at the plate. Guys that can handle the bat or guys that have been too reluctant to take advantage of hitters counts. So your taking the decision process out of their hands and forcing them to lock in. Sometimes your having a hard time getting anything going so you try and open up the infield and get something started.

There are different views on this that vary from coach to coach but many coaches do like to hit and run on 2-0 counts.

fan: good question.
coach may: great posts on this topic!

fan: He also may be having a hard time getting any kind of running game going so he's relying on hit and run. The steal is becoming more low percentage move as catchers are dominant in the college game. It is difficult to steal unless you're pretty sure you're getting a breaking ball or the pitcher is slow to the plate. (Either that or he's just a dumb-a$$ like me that does stuff nobody can figure out!!)

Thanks for the responses. yeah my son is the in the three hole and is hitting very well so he will hit the ball anyway. But I understand the reasoning that Coach May stated. As far as being a dumb ... I dont know enough about college baseball to say that about my sons third base coach, and I like his coaches.But i also get what you mean about just doing stuff to do it.
They won the state championship last year, so they are doing something right.

Swinging at 3-0 counts. We would give our hitters the green light or else they were to take the pitch. We even had a sign for “sure swing” that we would use once in a great while when the percentages dictated it. Example… The hitter at the plate is better than the hitter on deck. Winning or tying run in scoring position. Pitcher is being careful and has a 3-0 count. We might give the hitter the swing for sure sign. This simply meant he was swinging in his wheelhouse no matter where the pitch was. If it was in his wheel house… Great… If not we go to a 3-1 count. Theory was to have the better hitter at the plate with a 3-1 count rather than the poorer hitter with a 0-0 count.

Swinging at 3-0 counts has to take percentages into account. Hitters have a job to do. That job can change with every plate appearance. Anyone leading off an inning in most circumstances has a job to do… Get on base! To swing at a 3-0 count, down by 2 runs in the last inning as the lead off hitter would be stupid, to be blunt. It’s amazing how often the 3-0 pitch is called a strike and then the 3-1 pitch is no where near the strike zone. Even the best pitch to hit in a 3-0 count can result in an out… and often does! 3-1 is a great hitters count and by not swinging at 3-0 I’ve given myself 2 chances to get the job done rather than one chance/

All the above being said, there are still many opportunities to give a hitter the green light at 3-0. I especially like it when there is a power hitter at the plate. Obviously this is just my opinion, others might disagree.

About the only time to swing on 3-0 is when any ball put in play will win the game for you, i.e. bottom of the 7th of a tie game with a runner on third and less than two outs. Otherwise the odds favor taking.

There is no 100% surefire answer here. You need to teach your kids when to hit and when not to hit. Once you do that then you can sit back and enjoy the game.

Preseason is the coaches time to shine
Regular / post season is the players time to shine

If you tell all hitters to take 3 - 0 then you didn't teach in the preseason. If you turn all hitters loose on 3 - 0 don't get mad when they swing at a terrible pitch or time in the game because you didn't teach in the preseason.

Yesterday, in the second game of a DH, GED10 had a 3-0 count on a pitcher who throws alot of breaking balls and off-speed junk. He's very effective, if he throws a FB it usually needs a cut to get home. GED10 got a FB (inside) and....no take! Unfortunately, he bounced a chopper to thirdbase, he was out front just a bit. Not a bad miss, but a miss nun-the-less.
GED10Dad

3-0 is an automatic take for me...and quite frankly if I'm down 20 runs and you're SWINGING 3-0, we probably will be having a discussion as I'll want to know why you're looking to "run it up" on my kids up 20!