Do we understand each other?

2019Dad posted:

Great topic, 2020Dad. This is not directed at any of your posts, just a general observation: this is a great site, with lots of great advice on things like recruiting. It's NOT a site to complain about coaches or playing time -- and on balance that is probably correct, because almost ALL of the time, the parent is delusional, the coach isn't biased, etc. IMHO, it goes too far sometimes, because each situation is different, and subjective, and who the heck knows, without knowing the people involved. To me, the takeaway for kids is "work on getting better, focus on what you can control, keep grinding." For parents, enjoy the ride. And I can live with that.

So when I see a post like the recent topic complaining about a coach, I just avoid it. I don't know if perhaps the situation is the 1% -- or maybe it is 1/10th of 1% -- of the time when the parent is not delusional!

 

Agree that it's pointless to complain about a coach and/or playing time where no one else actually knows either the coach or the kid.

Completely agree that the only effective way for the kid to combat issues with the coach and/or playing time is "work on getting better, focus on what you can control, keep grinding."  And at the same time, be a great teammate.

But I just don't get the seemingly pervasive attitude on here that 99+% of the time the coach is right simply because he's the coach.

If there was a sabremetric-type rating for coaches, one thing would be mathematically certain: roughly half of them would get a below-average rating.  (The same is true for all professions.  Next time you go to the emergency room, remember that 50% of all doctors graduated in the bottom half of their class in med school.)

Every coach is going to have strengths and weaknesses, just like everyone else in any other line of work.  A coach may be a great instructor, a brilliant in-game tactician, and be the best fungo hitter in a 100-mile radius... but still be mediocre (or at least, inconsistent) at evaluating talent and absolutely suck at relating to the kids, or even human beings in general.  (Admit it.  Some coach's name just popped into your head.)

Just like every other instructor of any kind, the foundational basis for any coach's methods and decisions is his/her personal biases formed by their own unique collection of experiences.  The broader his/her experience base, the less those initial biases affect his/her coaching.  If you're a 5-8 basketball player and the head coach is 25 years old and 6-9, the coach may not see the value you bring to the team.  But if the coach is 55 years old and 6-9, he/she is much more likely to have a better appreciation for your skills.

You will find the same mix of personality and character flaws in the coaching ranks that you find in the rest of the population.  If one of those flaws happens to be arrogance, then said coach will likely have a difficult time adjusting for his weaknesses and/or biases because he won't believe that he has any.

Plus, you have the rather unique aspect of baseball, wherein players competing for the same position typically don't compete directly against each other in practice.  (Unlike for example football, where you can have two linebackers smash into each other to see which one physically dominates the other.  Or wrestling, where you just have the kids wrestle in practice and the winner starts on varsity.)  Decisions tend to be much more subjective than other sports.

Put those factors together, and it is inevitable that there is going to be a significant number of high school baseball players that for whatever reason don't get opportunities commensurate with their abilities.  In this sport, beauty is often very much in the eye of the beholder.  It's easy for just about anyone to spot the kids whose talent glass is overflowing, and the ones whose glass is empty.  But for the kids in the middle, many are going to have a coach that is always going to focus on the empty portion of their glass, but only see the full portion of their teammates' glasses.

It does happen.  Just like in the business world the best applicant doesn't always get the job or the promotion.

Again, it's pointless to air the grievance on a message board (or Facebook, or Twitter...).  But I really don't get crucifying those parents on the assumption that the coach is almost always right.

(Hope I haven't offended any of the coaches who contribute here.)

CaCO3Girl posted:

bacdorslider posted:

roothog66 posted:

bacdorslider posted:

TPM.... she just tells it like it is.

Maybe she should run for president.

Maybe.... she can be a bit cruel in her approch sometimes... BUT these younger parents come on the board acting like theirs is the end all be all... as a 2018 or 2019 or 2020....  and then they get their feeling hurt ..come on... you want to play big big ball you better wise up... there are more down times than good times... you guys wanting all this for your children and have not had the first phone call from your son at college when things are all shit for him at the moment. 

You think it's roses playing SEC baseball?  Wait til the press talks about your son like he has no business on the field .... wait til that coach that 'loved' your son and outright lied to you about his role.  Wait until the  scholarship dollars change, wait til he brings home a girl , has to drop a class or two.... the coach moves to another school 

Not to mention pro ball that is a huge cruel, scr**w you business.....  And you want to whine about TPM telling you the truth when you asked for it advice about whether a 2019 can play high level D1  ball?   I get it the parents that come on here and act like they are settling for D3 ... you know the ones that say well I know he could play D3 ball ... really.... try completing a international relations degree from Tufts...

Heck we dont know if your son can play LL for that matter... be honest get a real assessment, and for the love of god get an education out of it....  no one ever asks about the education side of playing college baseball..

Worry about the next pitch... it might be your last.... dont worry about the next season....

Ok I'm done.

 

How about us parents that came on here to learn and the minute we said anything about a 2020 we heard stop obsessing, this isn't about you, enjoy the moment, your kid won't be the next Jeter, don't talk about recruiting or showcase until he makes varsity.

um, my kid doesn't even play short stop and I just asked what a showcase entails....but that right there is a very typical response that seems uncalled for.  It's like some people have a cut and paste script. Any question relating to a 9u-14u player all answers will come from the "go away" script.

yes, when we get pms about a 9-13 year old accomplishments than it causes concerns.  Its just not you! Just ask bacdorslider.

Maybe its not what you ask, but how you ask and when.

Again sorry, but just responding to some of these posts directed at me.

Isn't harsh reality better than false confidence down the wrong path? The wrong path ultimately leads to a dead end.

Jack Welch was once asked about firing people. He said in the long wrong he's doing people he fires a favor. He said he hopes they ultimately find their strength and succeed.

TPM posted:

roothog66 posted:

 

Also, you need to stop making this about you.

Sorry.

 

See, this is the type of response that is a problem. TPM, you always makes comments like this, with some crazy assumption that if someone shows curiosity about a subject or has an opinion (or even asks for one), they are "worrying" or obsessing. You really need to let these things go. A poster offering his own experience while expressing an opinion really shouldn't upset you so much. relax. Breath. If you have a different opinion, express it without insults and vitriol. Others with the wisdom and experience you have seem to be able to express it in a way that actually helps posters rather than run new ones off. Then again, maybe that is your goal?

 

I am not here to make friends, I am here to help those that REALLY are confused and the way I see it, if you or someone else doesnt think I am nice enough, either block it out of get over it. This is me, I tell it like it is.  And it has nothing to do with hiding behind a message board!

Man, you would have never made it here with TRhit around, may he rest in peace!

Bacdorslider, I put him through the mill, he put me through the mill, you guys have no clue, from his first bb player, to his last bb player, he has learned so much, I am actually pretty proud of him.  He was a crazed dad who didn't understand why his first, who was an excellent pitcher, wasn't getting any love. Then he was just as crazy with the next, and the third had more interest in school than top D1 baseball and now his 4th, will more than likely go to Vandy or get drafted. 

He is definitely right, you all think playing bb in the SEC, PAC12 or ACC is a joyride, in any sport? NO WAY.  

I got mad at him a lot for driving me insane, I publicly apologize. I did all I could, even had DK get them all tickets when he was in Nashville AAA.  I am not such a bad person.

Baseballmom's son's dad contacted me when his son was going to play on the Cape, same team son played on.  He asked me a lot about the draft. I was very sad when baseballmom contacted me to tell me that he had passed away, at that time we became friends.  We have a lot in common and that is what binds many of us here, once you have been down that road, regardless of where you end up, most of it all is about the same stuff.

This should have absolutely nothing to do with having a stud or not, because realistically many players don't come into their own until they are a few years out of puberty. That's why college is such a better option than draft. You all know about Strasburg right? I remember reading he was a "bit" overweight in HS and didn't get lots of interest from schools or proball. 

So how the heck can you be posting about your 8th grader, and where he might be in 4, 7 years from now?  Come on!!!!!

As I said, not here to make friends, though I have many and I have a special bond with a few that will last a lifetime.  Last night I got a message from a poster thanking me for posting sons experiences, as they feel that they can learn from it, same as I stated what I did.  He realizes its a long journey.

Anyway, I had oral surgery today so I thank you all for keeping me busy when I usually cant sit still for a second!

 

 

I've never said you haven't helped people. In fact, I think I've been very clear that my opinion is that the opposite was true. I just think that you sometimes needlessly jump in and tear newer posters down (and some older ones). If it were just the delusional posters, I probably wouldn't say anything, but often its people answering honest, even if sometime naïve, questions.

By the way, I personally knew Tom. He's actually the one that turned me on to this site. I may have been here longer than you assume.

Edit: Meant Tom. I met Tom (where did Bob come from? Jeez.) back in the 90's probably before this board was even thought of. I probably didn't talk to him for about tenor fifteen years at one point. He was definitely one of a kind. And yeah, he could be to-the-point.

Also, this crap is NOT good for my blood pressure.

roothog66 posted:

Also, this crap is NOT good for my blood pressure.

Root, save your red face for when your kid is pitching and it seems to take 6 outs to end the inning : - )

Off topic: I just noticed Root's post count. I'm happy mine was changed to "member since ... " Otherwise the meter might have broken or I'd have to take a serious look inward at the number and the time I spend here. 

Aside from the advice and support I've received regarding recruiting and my physical recovery the board is a replacement for not coaching since 16u. Now I coach recruiting and experience.

The recruiting game has changed. Now, I realize that an offer means nothing until the NLI is signed.

I know of a current 9th grade football player who has 23 offers and about 11 or so we're before he ever stepped on a high school campus. I also personally know a current 9th grader who had four D1 baseball offers.  He ran a 6.5/60 in December. 

Now, before the eye-rolling starts, I know that this guarantees nothing in the future but these kids are the top 1% athletes and colleges know realize this. Even 'can't miss' prospects miss a lot of the time. What I am most happy about is that these kids will most likely get a free or partially free education. The degree is the ticket! 

hshuler posted:

The recruiting game has changed. Now, I realize that an offer means nothing until the NLI is signed.

I know of a current 9th grade football player who has 23 offers and about 11 or so we're before he ever stepped on a high school campuses. I also personally know a current 9th grader who had four D1 offers.  He ran a 6.5/60 in December. 

Now, before the eye-rolling starts, I know that this guarantees nothing in the future but these kids are the top 1% athletes and colleges know realize this. Even 'can't miss' prospects miss a lot of the time. What I am is happy that the kids will most likely get a free or partially free education. The degree is the ticket! 

I'm guessing as baseball verbals get earlier and earlier there will be an increase in breaking verbals. 

I would like to see the rule changed coaches can't talk to players in any shape and form until after soph year. Anytime after that an NLI can be signed at any time.

There's more involved than baseball. How many kids know what they want in a college education freshman and soph year of high school? The younger the kid the more blind he is to his life might ultimately involve more than baseball.

You guys are fired up!  Decided to go for a St Pattys Friday brew and watch this melee...

Everybody is trying to help & learn.  Occasionally there's a newcomer post that a few people have difficulty tolerating the "post".  Let's be a bit more patient and diplomatic with our comments.  

I've learned a lot, burp, back to my leisure Friday...

TPM, keeping it real.  Hope the recovery goes well, we are set for Miami at the end of this month.

RJM posted:

hshuler posted:

The recruiting game has changed. Now, I realize that an offer means nothing until the NLI is signed.

I know of a current 9th grade football player who has 23 offers and about 11 or so we're before he ever stepped on a high school campuses. I also personally know a current 9th grader who had four D1 offers.  He ran a 6.5/60 in December. 

Now, before the eye-rolling starts, I know that this guarantees nothing in the future but these kids are the top 1% athletes and colleges know realize this. Even 'can't miss' prospects miss a lot of the time. What I am is happy that the kids will most likely get a free or partially free education. The degree is the ticket! 

I'm guessing as baseball verbals get earlier and earlier there will be an increase in breaking verbals. 

I would like to see the rule changed coaches can't talk to players in any shape and form until after soph year. Anytime after that an NLI can be signed at any time.

There's more involved than baseball. How many kids know what they want in a college education freshman and soph year of high school? The younger the kid the more blind he is to his life might ultimately involve more than baseball.

I've stated it before, but baseball has traditionally been different than football and basketball in that schools respected verbals. That was easier to do when those occurred as Juniors and Seniors and you could assume the kid made a confident, mature decision, but the current trend of offering so early will only lead to a lot of broken commitments as coaches learn they can no longer afford to respect those commitments and yet run a successful program.

Re: Even can't miss prospects miss

I played Legion with a can't miss. I played against him in college summer ball until he signed. My father told me the team was wasting a lot of money. I was shocked. I asked why. My father said he had watched the kid play since LL. He said all the talent is there. But as soon as he hits a wall he will crumble. He lacks guts. Damn, if my father didn't nail it right down to why he washed out.

TPM posted:

roothog66 posted:

 

Also, you need to stop making this about you.

Sorry.

 

See, this is the type of response that is a problem. TPM, you always makes comments like this, with some crazy assumption that if someone shows curiosity about a subject or has an opinion (or even asks for one), they are "worrying" or obsessing. You really need to let these things go. A poster offering his own experience while expressing an opinion really shouldn't upset you so much. relax. Breath. If you have a different opinion, express it without insults and vitriol. Others with the wisdom and experience you have seem to be able to express it in a way that actually helps posters rather than run new ones off. Then again, maybe that is your goal?

 

I am not here to make friends, I am here to help those that REALLY are confused and the way I see it, if you or someone else doesnt think I am nice enough, either block it out of get over it. This is me, I tell it like it is.  And it has nothing to do with hiding behind a message board!

Man, you would have never made it here with TRhit around, may he rest in peace!

Bacdorslider, I put him through the mill, he put me through the mill, you guys have no clue, from his first bb player, to his last bb player, he has learned so much, I am actually pretty proud of him.  He was a crazed dad who didn't understand why his first, who was an excellent pitcher, wasn't getting any love. Then he was just as crazy with the next, and the third had more interest in school than top D1 baseball and now his 4th, will more than likely go to Vandy or get drafted. 

He is definitely right, you all think playing bb in the SEC, PAC12 or ACC is a joyride, in any sport? NO WAY.  

I got mad at him a lot for driving me insane, I publicly apologize. I did all I could, even had DK get them all tickets when he was in Nashville AAA.  I am not such a bad person.

Baseballmom's son's dad contacted me when his son was going to play on the Cape, same team son played on.  He asked me a lot about the draft. I was very sad when baseballmom contacted me to tell me that he had passed away, at that time we became friends.  We have a lot in common and that is what binds many of us here, once you have been down that road, regardless of where you end up, most of it all is about the same stuff.

This should have absolutely nothing to do with having a stud or not, because realistically many players don't come into their own until they are a few years out of puberty. That's why college is such a better option than draft. You all know about Strasburg right? I remember reading he was a "bit" overweight in HS and didn't get lots of interest from schools or proball. 

So how the heck can you be posting about your 8th grader, and where he might be in 4, 7 years from now?  Come on!!!!!

As I said, not here to make friends, though I have many and I have a special bond with a few that will last a lifetime.  Last night I got a message from a poster thanking me for posting sons experiences, as they feel that they can learn from it, same as I stated what I did.  He realizes its a long journey.

Anyway, I had oral surgery today so I thank you all for keeping me busy when I usually cant sit still for a second!

 

 

hoping the recovery is quick.... agreed TRhit would have plowed the field now days...

And for all the newbies, we really want to help... why because we know how much of a struggle it can be... and for me personally, I have made all the mistakes you can think of... that's how i can smell a problem in a newbie's post... it reminds me of a guy a few years back, saying one thing, but hoping for the answer I wanted to hear ( which does no one any good)   especially the player..... I used to think when people said find a school , get an education, college ball is a grind, I was really dreaming of one getting drafted, having no idea how hard that would be on him, or washing out without a degree, not mine , mine are going to make it ......all because I wanted to brag at the barber  so to speak.  Now I have one that is draftable and i wont say its not fun it is fun.... but the stakes are higher the game is tougher...

Sorry if I offended anyone... maybe I'm paying for my raising.

bacdorslider posted:

TPM posted:

roothog66 posted:

 

Also, you need to stop making this about you.

Sorry.

 

See, this is the type of response that is a problem. TPM, you always makes comments like this, with some crazy assumption that if someone shows curiosity about a subject or has an opinion (or even asks for one), they are "worrying" or obsessing. You really need to let these things go. A poster offering his own experience while expressing an opinion really shouldn't upset you so much. relax. Breath. If you have a different opinion, express it without insults and vitriol. Others with the wisdom and experience you have seem to be able to express it in a way that actually helps posters rather than run new ones off. Then again, maybe that is your goal?

 

I am not here to make friends, I am here to help those that REALLY are confused and the way I see it, if you or someone else doesnt think I am nice enough, either block it out of get over it. This is me, I tell it like it is.  And it has nothing to do with hiding behind a message board!

Man, you would have never made it here with TRhit around, may he rest in peace!

Bacdorslider, I put him through the mill, he put me through the mill, you guys have no clue, from his first bb player, to his last bb player, he has learned so much, I am actually pretty proud of him.  He was a crazed dad who didn't understand why his first, who was an excellent pitcher, wasn't getting any love. Then he was just as crazy with the next, and the third had more interest in school than top D1 baseball and now his 4th, will more than likely go to Vandy or get drafted. 

He is definitely right, you all think playing bb in the SEC, PAC12 or ACC is a joyride, in any sport? NO WAY.  

I got mad at him a lot for driving me insane, I publicly apologize. I did all I could, even had DK get them all tickets when he was in Nashville AAA.  I am not such a bad person.

Baseballmom's son's dad contacted me when his son was going to play on the Cape, same team son played on.  He asked me a lot about the draft. I was very sad when baseballmom contacted me to tell me that he had passed away, at that time we became friends.  We have a lot in common and that is what binds many of us here, once you have been down that road, regardless of where you end up, most of it all is about the same stuff.

This should have absolutely nothing to do with having a stud or not, because realistically many players don't come into their own until they are a few years out of puberty. That's why college is such a better option than draft. You all know about Strasburg right? I remember reading he was a "bit" overweight in HS and didn't get lots of interest from schools or proball. 

So how the heck can you be posting about your 8th grader, and where he might be in 4, 7 years from now?  Come on!!!!!

As I said, not here to make friends, though I have many and I have a special bond with a few that will last a lifetime.  Last night I got a message from a poster thanking me for posting sons experiences, as they feel that they can learn from it, same as I stated what I did.  He realizes its a long journey.

Anyway, I had oral surgery today so I thank you all for keeping me busy when I usually cant sit still for a second!

 

 

hoping the recovery is quick.... agreed TRhit would have plowed the field now days...

And for all the newbies, we really want to help... why because we know how much of a struggle it can be... and for me personally, I have made all the mistakes you can think of... that's how i can smell a problem in a newbie's post... it reminds me of a guy a few years back, saying one thing, but hoping for the answer I wanted to hear ( which does no one any good)   especially the player..... I used to think when people said find a school , get an education, college ball is a grind, I was really dreaming of one getting drafted, having no idea how hard that would be on him, or washing out without a degree, not mine , mine are going to make it ......all because I wanted to brag at the barber  so to speak.  Now I have one that is draftable and i wont say its not fun it is fun.... but the stakes are higher the game is tougher...

Sorry if I offended anyone... maybe I'm paying for my raising.

 

Root is your oldest a 2018?

 

2020dad posted:

I am just really confused as to how I am making this about me???   His dream not mine.  As for my other son I had never been to a swim meet in my life before he swam.  So that certainly isn't my dream.  Lots of people here talk about their kids informatively by example or just plain out of pride.  I think that's great.  How is any of this about me?  And yes I do stress on behalf of my son.  Who doesn't want to see things work out for their kids?  I guess again what I am saying is when your kid is the stuff (swimmer) you don't have to do anything but sit back and enjoy.  When your kid is possibly able but needs a ton of effort (baseball player) to get there then I am going to join his effort with mine.  

This isnt about bragging about your son.  

I didn't think that you would get it.  One example, that this is about YOU, is about worrying that your son will not get to live out his dream, which I am assuming that is to play for his favorite team.   This worries you, it shouldn't.  I also now know that you have no abs and drink bud light.

My sons whole entire reason for existence at that age was to play for the Miami Hurricanes.  I understand.

Guess what, it didn't happen, he was fine with it.

You want to know another thing, he never did make a 25 man roster, and he is fine with that too. Me, I just wanted to see him happy and I am not sure he always was as happy as folks he should be.

I think his dad was more distraught over it than he was.    

So dont come to conclusions too quickly as to the future.

As to your point about parents coming here worrying about not making the HS team, I dont find it at all, I think they come here wanting to find out HOW they can make the HS team.

Gov posted:

bacdorslider posted:

TPM posted:

roothog66 posted:

 

Also, you need to stop making this about you.

Sorry.

 

See, this is the type of response that is a problem. TPM, you always makes comments like this, with some crazy assumption that if someone shows curiosity about a subject or has an opinion (or even asks for one), they are "worrying" or obsessing. You really need to let these things go. A poster offering his own experience while expressing an opinion really shouldn't upset you so much. relax. Breath. If you have a different opinion, express it without insults and vitriol. Others with the wisdom and experience you have seem to be able to express it in a way that actually helps posters rather than run new ones off. Then again, maybe that is your goal?

 

I am not here to make friends, I am here to help those that REALLY are confused and the way I see it, if you or someone else doesnt think I am nice enough, either block it out of get over it. This is me, I tell it like it is.  And it has nothing to do with hiding behind a message board!

Man, you would have never made it here with TRhit around, may he rest in peace!

Bacdorslider, I put him through the mill, he put me through the mill, you guys have no clue, from his first bb player, to his last bb player, he has learned so much, I am actually pretty proud of him.  He was a crazed dad who didn't understand why his first, who was an excellent pitcher, wasn't getting any love. Then he was just as crazy with the next, and the third had more interest in school than top D1 baseball and now his 4th, will more than likely go to Vandy or get drafted. 

He is definitely right, you all think playing bb in the SEC, PAC12 or ACC is a joyride, in any sport? NO WAY.  

I got mad at him a lot for driving me insane, I publicly apologize. I did all I could, even had DK get them all tickets when he was in Nashville AAA.  I am not such a bad person.

Baseballmom's son's dad contacted me when his son was going to play on the Cape, same team son played on.  He asked me a lot about the draft. I was very sad when baseballmom contacted me to tell me that he had passed away, at that time we became friends.  We have a lot in common and that is what binds many of us here, once you have been down that road, regardless of where you end up, most of it all is about the same stuff.

This should have absolutely nothing to do with having a stud or not, because realistically many players don't come into their own until they are a few years out of puberty. That's why college is such a better option than draft. You all know about Strasburg right? I remember reading he was a "bit" overweight in HS and didn't get lots of interest from schools or proball. 

So how the heck can you be posting about your 8th grader, and where he might be in 4, 7 years from now?  Come on!!!!!

As I said, not here to make friends, though I have many and I have a special bond with a few that will last a lifetime.  Last night I got a message from a poster thanking me for posting sons experiences, as they feel that they can learn from it, same as I stated what I did.  He realizes its a long journey.

Anyway, I had oral surgery today so I thank you all for keeping me busy when I usually cant sit still for a second!

 

 

hoping the recovery is quick.... agreed TRhit would have plowed the field now days...

And for all the newbies, we really want to help... why because we know how much of a struggle it can be... and for me personally, I have made all the mistakes you can think of... that's how i can smell a problem in a newbie's post... it reminds me of a guy a few years back, saying one thing, but hoping for the answer I wanted to hear ( which does no one any good)   especially the player..... I used to think when people said find a school , get an education, college ball is a grind, I was really dreaming of one getting drafted, having no idea how hard that would be on him, or washing out without a degree, not mine , mine are going to make it ......all because I wanted to brag at the barber  so to speak.  Now I have one that is draftable and i wont say its not fun it is fun.... but the stakes are higher the game is tougher...

Sorry if I offended anyone... maybe I'm paying for my raising.

 

Root is your oldest a 2018?

My oldest boy, yeah. I have 35yo and 25yo girls, but never went through this. I was however a high school pitching coach in the early nineties and helped guide several D1 prospects through the maze. But, let me tell you, it was entirely a different trip.

edit: so there's no confusion, neither girl played softball beyond high school. One wasn't really talented enough and the other found boys in high school. However, one of them is now a professional boxer. Go figure.

2020dad posted:

Golfman25 posted:

2020dad posted:

maybe his six pack of abs helps - my six pack was a little different.

PBR? 

I am a Bud Light kind of guy!

Alright.  Now everything makes sense.  A White Sox loving, Bud Light drinking guy living in Wisconsin.  Talk about fitting in. 

hshuler posted:

The recruiting game has changed. Now, I realize that an offer means nothing until the NLI is signed.

I know of a current 9th grade football player who has 23 offers and about 11 or so we're before he ever stepped on a high school campus. I also personally know a current 9th grader who had four D1 baseball offers.  He ran a 6.5/60 in December. 

Now, before the eye-rolling starts, I know that this guarantees nothing in the future but these kids are the top 1% athletes and colleges know realize this. Even 'can't miss' prospects miss a lot of the time. What I am most happy about is that these kids will most likely get a free or partially free education. The degree is the ticket! 

No need for eye rolling.  This is a very real thing.  The number 3 guy in the nation for his class works out in our facility a lot.  I love watching him hit. There is a reason he was a big time D1 commit in 8th grade.  Now they can't get the agents to stop calling!  He may never get to college.  Don't want to get sidetracked into the old when can you tell thing but sometimes ya just can. 

My final word on this (unless of course I am called out).  This is an open forum.  If those that run it wish to they can make it private for only the old guard and upper echelon. The rest of us believe it or not would keep on living.  I am here to make friends - sort of.  It's nice to share ideas and hear stories and learn a thing or two.  I don't need to bash newbies to do that.  And don't assume those of us with so much life experience and in some cases baseball experience 'can't understand' because our own kids haven't been there yet.  And if I ask for your advice then I guess I get what I get.  With the exception of only once to the best of my recollection I have never asked for advice!  So why do I keep getting so much?  Nobody here - nobody - has the key to wisdom.  And telling it like it is really means telling it like you see it.  One viewpoint can be as valid as another.  As for the old days always being so good and people would never have made it back then...   Come on guys even as you typed it I am sure you realized that's a load of you know what.  You think being chastised on some message board is going to make people shrink and run away?  And if they do it is probably because they figure it just wasn't worth their time.  So I guess if we want to stick with the king of the hill approach so be it.  I have many times tried for civility.  Maybe it's time to channel my inner Donald trump!

2020dad posted:

My final word on this (unless of course I am called out).  This is an open forum.  If those that run it wish to they can make it private for only the old guard and upper echelon. 

Well, my last point to you. You wanna everything to be nice, but then you make a statement like that, makes no sense.  What does making those site private have to do with it?  Whon said that?

This is a great example of something we all don't do and I take responsibility, think before you post and maybe you (well not you necessarily) will get a different response.

I entirely disagree with a statement you made, which I am allowed, no one really quite understands the entire journey unless you have personally been through it.  

CaCO3Girl posted:

roothog66 posted:

Also, this crap is NOT good for my blood pressure.

Root, save your red face for when your kid is pitching and it seems to take 6 outs to end the inning : - )

EXACTLY the point. This is small stuff guy, you haven't seen nothing yet!!!!!

TPM posted:

2020dad posted:

My final word on this (unless of course I am called out).  This is an open forum.  If those that run it wish to they can make it private for only the old guard and upper echelon. 

Well, my last point to you. You wanna everything to be nice, but then you make a statement like that, makes no sense.  What does making those site private have to do with it?  Whon said that?

This is a great example of something we all don't do and I take responsibility, think before you post and maybe you (well not you necessarily) will get a different response.

I entirely disagree with a statement you made, which I am allowed, no one really quite understands the entire journey unless you have personally been through it.  

 

The whole point of that post was that I guess being nice simply is not possible.  Too bad but apparently true.  And you have no way of knowing what I or anyone else understands or doesn't understand.  so we can agree to disagree.  

TPM posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

roothog66 posted:

Also, this crap is NOT good for my blood pressure.

Root, save your red face for when your kid is pitching and it seems to take 6 outs to end the inning : - )

EXACTLY the point. This is small stuff guy, you haven't seen nothing yet!!!!!

TPM, what are you doing?  Be nice.

Great site, you bring value, everybody trying to learn, nobody perfect...

You can help and be nice at the same time.  

This is ugly...

Gov posted:

TPM posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

roothog66 posted:

Also, this crap is NOT good for my blood pressure.

Root, save your red face for when your kid is pitching and it seems to take 6 outs to end the inning : - )

EXACTLY the point. This is small stuff guy, you haven't seen nothing yet!!!!!

TPM, what are you doing?  Be nice.

Great site, you bring value, everybody trying to learn, nobody perfect...

You can help and be nice at the same time.  

This is ugly...

Ahhh see how things get misunderstood!

Don't I always say don't sweat the small stuff!  CaCo point was on point!!

Lighten up folks!

MrBumstead posted:

2019Dad posted:

Great topic, 2020Dad. This is not directed at any of your posts, just a general observation: this is a great site, with lots of great advice on things like recruiting. It's NOT a site to complain about coaches or playing time -- and on balance that is probably correct, because almost ALL of the time, the parent is delusional, the coach isn't biased, etc. IMHO, it goes too far sometimes, because each situation is different, and subjective, and who the heck knows, without knowing the people involved. To me, the takeaway for kids is "work on getting better, focus on what you can control, keep grinding." For parents, enjoy the ride. And I can live with that.

So when I see a post like the recent topic complaining about a coach, I just avoid it. I don't know if perhaps the situation is the 1% -- or maybe it is 1/10th of 1% -- of the time when the parent is not delusional!

 

Agree that it's pointless to complain about a coach and/or playing time where no one else actually knows either the coach or the kid.

Completely agree that the only effective way for the kid to combat issues with the coach and/or playing time is "work on getting better, focus on what you can control, keep grinding."  And at the same time, be a great teammate.

But I just don't get the seemingly pervasive attitude on here that 99+% of the time the coach is right simply because he's the coach.

If there was a sabremetric-type rating for coaches, one thing would be mathematically certain: roughly half of them would get a below-average rating.  (The same is true for all professions.  Next time you go to the emergency room, remember that 50% of all doctors graduated in the bottom half of their class in med school.)

Every coach is going to have strengths and weaknesses, just like everyone else in any other line of work.  A coach may be a great instructor, a brilliant in-game tactician, and be the best fungo hitter in a 100-mile radius... but still be mediocre (or at least, inconsistent) at evaluating talent and absolutely suck at relating to the kids, or even human beings in general.  (Admit it.  Some coach's name just popped into your head.)

Just like every other instructor of any kind, the foundational basis for any coach's methods and decisions is his/her personal biases formed by their own unique collection of experiences.  The broader his/her experience base, the less those initial biases affect his/her coaching.  If you're a 5-8 basketball player and the head coach is 25 years old and 6-9, the coach may not see the value you bring to the team.  But if the coach is 55 years old and 6-9, he/she is much more likely to have a better appreciation for your skills.

You will find the same mix of personality and character flaws in the coaching ranks that you find in the rest of the population.  If one of those flaws happens to be arrogance, then said coach will likely have a difficult time adjusting for his weaknesses and/or biases because he won't believe that he has any.

Plus, you have the rather unique aspect of baseball, wherein players competing for the same position typically don't compete directly against each other in practice.  (Unlike for example football, where you can have two linebackers smash into each other to see which one physically dominates the other.  Or wrestling, where you just have the kids wrestle in practice and the winner starts on varsity.)  Decisions tend to be much more subjective than other sports.

Put those factors together, and it is inevitable that there is going to be a significant number of high school baseball players that for whatever reason don't get opportunities commensurate with their abilities.  In this sport, beauty is often very much in the eye of the beholder.  It's easy for just about anyone to spot the kids whose talent glass is overflowing, and the ones whose glass is empty.  But for the kids in the middle, many are going to have a coach that is always going to focus on the empty portion of their glass, but only see the full portion of their teammates' glasses.

It does happen.  Just like in the business world the best applicant doesn't always get the job or the promotion.

Again, it's pointless to air the grievance on a message board (or Facebook, or Twitter...).  But I really don't get crucifying those parents on the assumption that the coach is almost always right.

(Hope I haven't offended any of the coaches who contribute here.)

Ah, fair enough. I suppose I overstated it. I guess the way I look at it is: the coach gets to decide. Doesn't mean the coach is always right, or that the best players play (see, e.g., Lou Gehrig backing up Wally Pipp; Tom Brady backing up Drew Bledsoe, etc., etc.). And Lord knows different coaches can have very different views about the same kid. 

So when I see one of those posts saying the coach is wrong, I don't crucify the parent on the assumption that the coach is almost always right -- I just steer clear, because . . . how would I know who is right?

2020Dad,

I reread your orginial post.  It made sense to me.  Yes, this is the place to come for a baseball discussion or tangential discussions about baseball.   You are guaranteed that some people will comment or answer your question and others won't.  Read them and move on.   Personally, I've been moved or changed my mind on many situations or issues that I've posted here.  This is why I continue to come back.    I've got heart felt responses, and responses that were not thoroughly thought out.  Without question, others may have felt the same way about my responses.  So be it.  The sun will set, and rise another day. 

Over the last handful of years,  I've met many more parents who's sons are not D1 studs or MLB prospects.  The numbers aren't even close.  Baseball talent is not a requirement for our board.....if it was there would be no board.  I believe there is something for everyone at HSBBWeb and it is what you make it.  So, to answer your question...."Do we understand each other".....sometimes.   Maybe not always but I think most people make the effort to try.   If they don't try, then maybe those are the responses that go out with the trash.   There will be responses that you don't agree with however that person may have put a lot of effort into their response.   Those are the ones you may want to look closer at.  

As always, JMO.

2020Dad, actually, this is an interesting thread and some good discussion.  I think a lot of things happen on forums like this that are both intended and not intended.  Often, I think that members read some type of inflection on a response that was not intended by the person making a post.  I know that has happened a few times when I have posted something.  Some times I have been critical of others.  It is a message board.  Some of us old timers have been through experiences with our player(S) or children and we want to help via examples or stories.  At times, and for some, that isn't taken well.  To be sure, I have read posts and or threads where some posters need to be told the truth about things like the recruitment process.  I recall one thread where a member posted comments as indisputable facts when I had players experience just the opposite.  I was then condemned by the OP of that thread for misleading members.  At that point I did reply with the resume and all of the college coaches I not only know but know well. 

The members I know via pms etc. from this site and have known for a very long time are here to try to help.  I do apologize if I have been one of those that seem gruff.  I have tried to post less here and on other sites because I think it is time for me personally to back off and just be a reader. 

2020dad posted:

hshuler posted:

The recruiting game has changed. Now, I realize that an offer means nothing until the NLI is signed.

I know of a current 9th grade football player who has 23 offers and about 11 or so we're before he ever stepped on a high school campus. I also personally know a current 9th grader who had four D1 baseball offers.  He ran a 6.5/60 in December. 

Now, before the eye-rolling starts, I know that this guarantees nothing in the future but these kids are the top 1% athletes and colleges know realize this. Even 'can't miss' prospects miss a lot of the time. What I am most happy about is that these kids will most likely get a free or partially free education. The degree is the ticket! 

No need for eye rolling.  This is a very real thing.  The number 3 guy in the nation for his class works out in our facility a lot.  I love watching him hit. There is a reason he was a big time D1 commit in 8th grade.  Now they can't get the agents to stop calling!  He may never get to college.  Don't want to get sidetracked into the old when can you tell thing but sometimes ya just can. 

How does a kid get a national rating and who is doing the rating?  

Go44dad posted:

bacdorslider posted:

The problem can be this.... young parents want for their children we all do.... but unless you are being honest with your self and willing to listen and be open minded to the fact Jonny is probably not as good as you think then we cannot help you.....

This post has been written a thousand times by the "mount rushmore" of posters.  I think most get it.

And his name is not Johnny.

LOL the ONE thing this site has taught me. 

Do NOT let my son name my grandson "Johnny". 

lionbaseball posted:

2020dad posted:

hshuler posted:

The recruiting game has changed. Now, I realize that an offer means nothing until the NLI is signed.

I know of a current 9th grade football player who has 23 offers and about 11 or so we're before he ever stepped on a high school campus. I also personally know a current 9th grader who had four D1 baseball offers.  He ran a 6.5/60 in December. 

Now, before the eye-rolling starts, I know that this guarantees nothing in the future but these kids are the top 1% athletes and colleges know realize this. Even 'can't miss' prospects miss a lot of the time. What I am most happy about is that these kids will most likely get a free or partially free education. The degree is the ticket! 

No need for eye rolling.  This is a very real thing.  The number 3 guy in the nation for his class works out in our facility a lot.  I love watching him hit. There is a reason he was a big time D1 commit in 8th grade.  Now they can't get the agents to stop calling!  He may never get to college.  Don't want to get sidetracked into the old when can you tell thing but sometimes ya just can. 

How does a kid get a national rating and who is doing the rating?  

Perfect game.  

Fenway ... Your something for everyone prompted me to did up a song "Something For Everybody" by Bill Chinnock. I hadn't heard it in twenty years. 

Bill Chinnock was the father of the Asbury Park sound. He tired of the life. He decided to move to Maine. He suggested to his friend Bruce he hook up with his old band members and see what he can do. The rest is history. 

In the meantime, during summers in college we would see Chinnock play in a warehouse converted to a dump club called The Loft. He packed them in. Chinnock eventually went more mainstream. He won an Emmy for Best Score for a TV show.

If anyone is ever near Asbury Park NJ  a visit to The Stone Pony is a must. It's part of rock and roll history. All the New Jersey greats have played there.

And now back to baseball ...

** TR would have liked this post

RJM posted:

Fenway ... Your something for everyone prompted me to did up a song "Something For Everybody" by Bill Chinnock. I hadn't heard it in twenty years. 

Bill Chinnock was the father of the Asbury Park sound. He tired of the life. He decided to move to Maine. He suggested to his friend Bruce he hook up with his old band members and see what he can do. The rest is history. 

In the meantime, during summers in college we would see Chinnock play in a warehouse converted to a dump club called The Loft. He packed them in. Chinnock eventually went more mainstream. He won an Emmy for Best Score for a TV show.

If anyone is ever near Asbury Park NJ  a visit to The Stoned Pony is a must. It's part of rock and roll history. All the New Jersey greats have played there.

And now back to baseball ...

** TR would have liked this post

Attended Monmouth...need I say more.  We knew Bruce before he was BRUCE!  But he didn't start at the Stoned Pony but somewhere on Cookman Ave.

TPM posted:

RJM posted:

Fenway ... Your something for everyone prompted me to did up a song "Something For Everybody" by Bill Chinnock. I hadn't heard it in twenty years. 

Bill Chinnock was the father of the Asbury Park sound. He tired of the life. He decided to move to Maine. He suggested to his friend Bruce he hook up with his old band members and see what he can do. The rest is history. 

In the meantime, during summers in college we would see Chinnock play in a warehouse converted to a dump club called The Loft. He packed them in. Chinnock eventually went more mainstream. He won an Emmy for Best Score for a TV show.

If anyone is ever near Asbury Park NJ  a visit to The Stoned Pony is a must. It's part of rock and roll history. All the New Jersey greats have played there.

And now back to baseball ...

** TR would have liked this post

Attended Monmouth...need I say more.  We knew Bruce before he was BRUCE!  But he didn't start at the Stoned Pony but somewhere on Cookman Ave.

The Fast Lane, but I think it was on 4th and Kingsley. Southside Johnny and The Asbury Jukes was the house band at The Stone Pony at that time.