Do you have to like 'em for them to be good

There are, in my opinion, a few different types of coaches:

The guy who doesn't know his stuff, but is super nice: BAD

The guy who doesn't know his stuff and is mean, but tries to act like he knows his stuff, which actually probably makes players worse: BAD

The guy who knows his stuff, and is really nice, good character. This is the rarest. GOOD

The guy who knows his stuff but is a complete a hole. GOOD

The 1st, 2nd, and 4th guys are the ones most often brought up.

Good coach doesn't exactly mean he should be around kids, though, like in #4.

Coach2709,
I agree that players need to be praised and need to be told when they are doing something wrong. IMO any person who knows what they're talking about and is trying to relay that message is a good coach.

you don't need to like your coach.but you need to respect him and his knowledge.

i wonder if todays youth knows what respect is. i hear kids say, so and so disrespected me because xyz. maybe the term has a different meaning today.

The short answer is no.

Are we looking at this from the player's perspective? If so, I think a player would have a simple way of looking at it: If he thinks his coach is good, he likes him. If he thinks his coach isn't any good, he doesn't like him. I would imagine a player's criteria for thinking his coach is good would be along the lines of: he plays me all the time, he calls plays that work.

Parents might have a different perspective, though.

There are many reasons players might respect, disrespect, like or not like a coach but one thing I believe is if players have any sense the coach has no clue what he's doing or doesn't have a grip on his program, that coach won't get the respect of his players. By time players are at the varsity level, they have a pretty good idea how to play the game, or at least you hope they would. What HS players need is a good leader who commands respect in the program he runs. A great coach will get this plus their players will run through a brick wall for them.

Go ask your players if they'd run thru a wall for their coaches. That might be telling on the rspect they have for their coaches and the program they play in.

If people think that to be successful means you have to like everybody you deal with then you are in trouble.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 20dad:
you don't need to like your coach.but you need to respect him and his knowledge.
[QUOTE]


FWIW, and I do not say this is right (defending coaches that are WAY out of line), it's just that many of us have different perceptions of what is and what isn't, if you think that in your opinions that your sons coaches do not treat players the way you feel (or players feel) they should be treated, you better not send them ahead to the next level. You guys have no clue.

The only difference I see is that when the program is a winning program, your son is playing everyday, lots of stuff doesn't seem as negative to most, in other words, they look past all of that irritating stuff.

Do you all sincerely feel that most coaches/managers on certain levels that are highly successful are going to win the most likeable guy of the world contest? And do you always think that they are best at managing the game? I guess that a lot comes down to what you expect, I expected each and every one of my players coaches to teach things about the game, that aren't always about playing the game. That would be respect for the game, your teammates, the fans and yourself. We always told son work hard and good things are going to happen regardless of what you think of the coaching staff.

Sometimes, and I don't get this, some of you pay lots of money for your sons to play travel ball, sometimes for not so great results, yet when the HS coach doesn't get it done the way you all see it, he's not very good. The way I see it, sometimes the coach can't go out and recruit, and he has to work with what he has, I imagine that must be kind of frustrating. Not all coaches have the ability to turn copper into gold.

It all depends what you get out of the experience. Do you not like him because you lose all of the time, or that your son doesn't get to do what you think he should? I even hear parents complain about coaches WHEN they play for winning programs. I don't get that.


Now everyone has their own perception of what is appropriate behavior for coaches and what is not. This is not to say that there are not coaching disasters out there. I am sure there are, there are player disasters out there as well. A lot is about perception and expectations.

Players get spoken to (sometimes not the way we would like) when not doing their job, and often times not so when the job is done right. I have found this to be true throughout son's BB career. This is when growing up takes place, you do not need to have someone pat you on the back each and everytime you have success. More important, you need your butt kicked if you want to go far in this game. My son took some major butt kicking along the way, as many of our sons moving forward have. I really feel there is a strong correlation between success and serious butt kick. That's JMO. If you are doing things right, then you see the rewards, you win a start over someone else, you move up a level. A lot of the game on the pro level is about self satisfaction which moves you to higher levels.

And as a team, you might get praise when you win and you might get an earful when you lose.

I think for most whose sons still are in HS, it's hard to understand, for most that have had sons go out into the world to play at the next level, can.

I am not sticking up for coaches, my own player has had some less than desireable ones, but FWIW, he has learned something valuable in each situation and I beleive that he is who he is because of each and everyone of them.

Northwest nailed it IMO with very few words.

You don't have to like the guy, but you must respect him. There is also a difference in being tough and fair vs tough and unfair. IMO the best are the toughest during practice, and then let the players play when game time comes.

I can now see why good coaches are so hard to find, they typically must be teachers (or wealthy) to get out to the field at 2:00PM, they put in a tremendous amount of time, have to put up with a whole bunch of issues, (parents, kids, facilities, fund raising, etc) and get few rewards. They really have to love the game and love kids.

Here's to you Mr. HS Baseball coach!

I have never cared much about winning titles or sending kids off to college. I always told them that I knew I was a successful coach when they got their degree, got a good job, got married, had babies and went to church every Sunday. Then I knew if I did my job, and really cannot not control if I was liked or not or if I was any good.

Lefty...

One of the smartest things I ever did as the father of a developing baseball player was hold my tongue.

When my son was about 16, he played for a very demanding (and knowledgeable) coach. One day, during a pretty significant tournament game,the coach made a trip to the mound and suggested something to my son that I knew ran counter to every fiber in his makeup as a player (and person).

At the time, it was hurtful. After the game, my immediate inclination when I heard what he'd said was to pull the coach aside and suggest that he didn't know my son very well; which, up until that point, had been the least of my concerns.

Fortunately, I kept my thoughts completely to myself. I told my son that he'd need to work through it with his coach, himself; and I said nothing to the coach.

As it turned out, that meeting on the mound (along with occasional confrontations between them, subsequently) went a long way toward teaching my son a dimension of the game that would serve him extremely well as he progressed as a player.

Baseball is a tough game, and it takes tough people to play it well. At some point, coaches need to help players understand the value of toughness. I'm glad I let the coach do his job at a time when my son was ready to be taught.

(P.S. This coach is now a highly-regarded evaluator of talent and minor league manager for the St. Louis Cardinals organization. The relationship between my son and him couldn't be any closer; one that I'm certain both value highly.)

My son's coach has a peculiar personality. My son likes him. My son believes in the coach. That's all that really matters. It's my son's game. I've had my turn. There are things I see the coach could do differently. I never mention them to my son. Could he be a better coach? Yes. Could the AD find a better coach? I don't know. I believe the grass is green enough. The best solution is the current coach continue to grow as a coach.

quote:

Originally posted by Prepster:
One of the smartest things I ever did as the father of a developing baseball player was hold my tongue.

When my son was about 16, he played for a very demanding (and knowledgeable) coach. One day, during a pretty significant tournament game,the coach made a trip to the mound and suggested something to my son that I knew ran counter to every fiber in his makeup as a player (and person).

At the time, it was hurtful. After the game, my immediate inclination when I heard what he'd said was to pull the coach aside and suggest that he didn't know my son very well; which, up until that point, had been the least of my concerns.

Fortunately, I kept my thoughts completely to myself. I told my son that he'd need to work through it with his coach, himself; and I said nothing to the coach.

As it turned out, that meeting on the mound (along with occasional confrontations between them, subsequently) went a long way toward teaching my son a dimension of the game that would serve him extremely well as he progressed as a player.

Baseball is a tough game, and it takes tough people to play it well. At some point, coaches need to help players understand the value of toughness. I'm glad I let the coach do his job at a time when my son was ready to be taught.

(P.S. This coach is now a highly-regarded evaluator of talent and minor league manager for the St. Louis Cardinals organization. The relationship between my son and him couldn't be any closer; one that I'm certain both value highly.)

Been there, done that, as most of us with older ones have.
Prep, whose the manager?

I'm sure you know him well, B.

It's Mike Shildt.

Been some great posts here and I truly respect what every has to say but I'm truly starting to think that you guys are the exception to the rule. In the other thread I talked about a guy I know who's being fired because he upset the "right" people. I've been thinking about this a lot and it worries me that a respected coach throughout a state who is very successful can be fired over something so simple then what about the rest of us?

I'm hard nosed and I coach hard nosed. I will get onto a player in a heartbeat and I never think about "will this make their parents mad to where they try to get me fired". But will there come a day when I get fired because I jump onto the wrong kid who knows someone? That being said I'm also pretty quick to heap praise when it's warranted and put an arm around them to give a hug. As someone said on here about asking your kid if they would run through a wall for their coach and that shoudl tell you a lot about the coach. I think most of my players will and that's football and baseball both. But not all kids will and that's just natural. The thing is are we getting to a point where that small percentage of kids who won't run through the wall get a good coach fired?

I love the story that prepster told about how the coach got onto his son but let it slide and his son learned a valuable lesson. Plus they are still close today. Is what prepster did how most parents will handle this or is he the exception? I'm starting to hear more and more horror stories of upset parents going after coaches. The worst part is there is no recourse for a coach who's wrongly fired. This comes down to perception and political power. A parent with some power / knows someone gets upset over something this is now perception. They perceive that the coach is not good or cheating their son or playing favorites when it's probably not true.

This attitude is making it harder and harder for young coaches to learn how to stand on their own two feet. Young coaches are going to make mistakes. I don't care how long you serve as an asst and / or who you serve under - you will never be truly prepared to be a head coach until you get a job and jump in. How is a young coach going to learn from his mistakes when he's constantly fearing for his job? When I got started as a head coach 13 years ago I wasn't very good. I thought I was but I made a bunch of mistakes. The parents were after me hard and while I was right in trying to change attitudes I could have done a better job in picking my battles. I was lucky I had a principal who backed me and allowed me to learn from my mistakes. By the time I left I believe I was well respected by my players......parents not real sure but that wasn't my goal. This whole "go after the coach when you're not happy" is driving good coaches away because they don't want to deal with this stuff.

What's going to happen with high school baseball? There is already an elitist attitude towards it by some parents now. You can go through posts on here and see that. There is an overall perception on here that high school coaches are clueless. I do but don't understand this attitude. I realize that part of this is created because there is not much exposure during the high school season. If you're not being seen then is it worth it? I say yes it is worth it because it's a chance to compete. It's a chance to line up against someone else and battle to see who's better. Does there HAVE to be a scout in the stands watching ONE kid when there is a team out there that needs beating for it to have value? Well if we're running off all the good coaches then what are we left with? We basically have rec league where everyone gets a trophy and everyone is guaranteed equal playing time. Is that what we really want for kids who can / want to play at a high level even if they won't move to the next level?

I'm sorry for rambling on and on but this guy getting fired has shaken my faith that the right thing will usually happen. I know bad things happen to good people but not like this. This guy does not coach the way I do. It's truly an example of how different styles can both be successful. I will yell and scream and he doesn't but we both get the most out of our kids. If this gets fired then what's going to happen to me eventually?

Here are some newspaper articles on this guy's firing. I know you guys will have no idea who he is but maybe these articles can give you some perspective. Make sure to read the comments that go with them too.

http://varsitynow.blogs.starne...seball-but-where-to/

http://varsitynow.blogs.starne...-but-where-to/?tc=ar

Just keep doing things the way you do them coach. I could type several pages on this subject but I am going to pass. You know you do things the right way. That's all that matters.

quote:

Originally posted by Prepster:
I'm sure you know him well, B.

It's Mike Shildt.

Wow, how cool is that, great guy, Dave likes him very much.
I think he was one of his coaches in ss Batavia.

His team won the Appalachian League Championship last year.

Your story is not an uncommon one, often times those really "we think they are too tough" on our players turn out to be the best. You learn a lot from those type of coaches, and as I said, it's not always aobut the game.

quote:

Do you have to like your coach in order for them to be considered good?

Of course. You want a coach who never raises his voice. A coach that will tell you do not worry about it when you screw up. A coach who will tell you how good you are. One that does not hurt your self esteem. One who always strokes your ego. One who will not bench you when your play is poor.

dont know about what goes on in todays atmosphere but that did not work too well. Of course if it is a coaches job to keep everybody happy at the cost of success then I guess today it is the way to go.

"I'm not concerned with your liking or disliking me... All I ask is that you respect me as a human being." -Jackie Robinson

I agree that a coach doesn't need to be liked, only respected. In my modest opinion the best and most well-respected coaches exhibit the following traits: superior knowledge; coaches based on empirical evidence but every once in a while goes with his gut; trustworthy & consistent (i.e. means what he says and says what he means).

Losing, however, magnifies everything and what was once endearing or impressive during a winning streak is sometimes questioned during a losing streak. Not fair, I know, but human nature.

Thing that can be more important for the player is... Does the coach like you?

quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:
Do you have to like your coach in order for them to be considered good? ?

No

quote:

What's going to happen with high school baseball?

I know of a baseball academy full of former high school baseball coaches. They make more money than coaching and don't have to deal with the high school parent bs. Coaches have more options now.

A lot of parents do not understand when a coach gets on a player he usually believes in him. It's when the coach tunes out the player parents should be concerned.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
A lot of parents do not understand when a coach gets on a player he usually believes in him. It's when the coach tunes out the player parents should be concerned.

Bingo! That's what I tell my son when the coach is chewing on him. I'm happy when he's getting coached hard, cause I've seen what happens to the ones that are tuned out!

quote:

Originally posted by Coach_May:
Just keep doing things the way you do them coach. I could type several pages on this subject but I am going to pass. You know you do things the right way. That's all that matters.

Very true coach and I don't plan on changing how I approach things. The way I look at it if someone is connected enough to get me fired then so be it. They are freeing me up to go someplace that does want me.

It does get frustrating to see good coaches out there being done wrong. I'm not saying bad coaches need a free pass because they don't but I hate to see good ones get run off over stupid stuff.

Coach2709,

Sometimes politics steps in and bites people. It is a shame, but it happens in the corporate world and it happens in the public sector too. Many of my customers were universities at one time, and the amount of politics in the administration and academic sides of a college is astounding. As you point out, it may be better to go someplace you are wanted. In my travels, there are a lot of programs looking for good baseball coaches.

Two days ago, I was at a high school game. We were playing against one of the best programs in the state (IMO). The coach is a legend, well respected, but caters to no one especially parents. This coach is tough as nails on the players and the players are accountable. I'm told he is the kind of coach that you only appreciate after you graduate. One of the parents mentions to me as we're leaving that his son is in the (legend) coaches doghouse, and he is miserable. I told him that his son is very fortunate to be playing for this coach and his program and he will eventually figure it out. I was thinking to myself that I would have liked my kids to have the experience of playing for a legend like my friends coach. Our head coach is new, talent is not deep, and he will have to build his program from scratch. There are many of us out here who do appreciate and recognize good baseball coaches. It is sometimes difficult or awkward to say so.

I think what defines a good coach varies from person to person as well. A number of years ago I was asked to revitalize a summer program that had fallen apart. I was given 2 juniors and the rest were sophomores to play a varsity schedule. I agreed to one year. We took our lumps, worked hard, knocked-off the 2 best teams in the league. I had a clear rule, I made my line-up prior to the game, an hour before the game I made a new one. If you were not on the field getting loose at this time, you were not in the line-up. The owner's son came late a few times and I scratched him. I also refused to change some stats to make him look better. At the end of the season he hated me and I wished him well and said I would help any of the coaches that needed any help next year. The kids still keep in touch and that was about 10 years ago. So to the team owner, I was no good. To the players, I feel I was what they were looking for. I have had players love me, I have had them throw uniforms at me. I work hard to be the best I can and care about each kid as a player and individual. I will always be fair and for some that seems unfair. There is nothing more that I can do other than my best. Whether or not I am liked is up to you.