Do you take the money

How can you improve on being drafted in the 1st round? If you're drafted that high, why wouldn't you sign? JMO.

Its a roll of the dice--if he attends college , has a great college career and does not get hurt that 1.8 could double or triple.

1.8 does not last long after taxes, agents etc

College education lasts forever

Which ever side of the fence you are on you still have to mow the lawn.

im sorry but anyone who turns down 1.8 million to play a game they love is an idiot. Off his same team Jeff Mathis took less than a million and is now one of the highest rated prospects in the nation, Horne had that potential too,and instead of taking the money he hurts his arm and has to get TJ surgery. Then when you consider the college scholarship plan, you realize how good of a deal he had, thats 1.8 million plus college guaranteed. So why not pass up college? BONEHEAD move on his part.

Cleveland Dad, This is an interesting question.
I think any player/family that has to make this choice would be very lucky.

If it was my child or a friend's child, it would depend if this was their dream. First round draft choice - how much better could it get for a kid. If baseball was truly their passion, then I would encourage and support them to go for it. I'm always amazed at the players who supposedly love baseball, but when it comes between 2 million or 2.5 million, they may not play if they don't get their number. Is it about the money or your love of the game?

Best case scenario - works his butt off and lives out his dream. Worst case sceanrio - doesn't make it, and has money to receive his college education along with many stories to tell his children. Not a bad deal either way IMO.

AHS, strongly disagree with you. Bonehead move on his part because he choose college? While I would have taken the money also, I am in no position to judge that boy.

On the other hand, if he had signed with my beloved Indians and suffered the same injury, I have to believe he would have received better medical treatment. Interesting article in SI recently commenting on the increased TJ surgeries being done to kids as young as 13.

You can have college or you can have college plus 1.8m.

I don't have to know the kid or his parents to analyze this.

Using pure rationalization to work out whether to take a 1.8 mil signing bounus or go to college, here's what I get, DO BOTH!

I'd estimate that after all is said and done the 1.8 mil will net down to around 900k.
Using virtually risk free investments like T-bills you could generate about 30k a year in income. That's give or take 5k depending on maturity of the T-bills.
Mix in a little more risk ( high rated corporate bonds) but still very little risk one could generate in the area of 50k a year in income.

Either way, 30k or 50k is adequate income for a kid out of HS while hes in rookie ball or whatever. At the same time the college scholorship plan is there and the kid has the option of going to college while playing ball.

That being said, if he turns down the signing bonus, and goes to school for just 4 years, graduates and gets a job (for one reason or another baseball is no longer an option) right out for school paying 100k, which is unlikely, it will take him 9 years to earn the same 900k he was handed for signing. Add the 4 yrs of college and it will take him 13 yrs to earn the same 900k. If he goes to grad school, make it 16 or 17 yrs to earn the same 900k.

If after 2 yrs or whatever of playing it ends. He's still has the original 900k earning him money. Whatever he decides to do at that point, and 900k increase the choices available, it will be a lot easier knowing he's got almost a million dollars in the bank.

I think skipping college is a mistake. I think turning down a large sum of money is a mistake as well.

Unless I'm wrong it seems it's possible to do both and I can't see why it has to be one or the other.

BackDash,

That was pretty much my thinking except I was too lazy to put the analysis in writing. Again, I am for the college education all the way. I guess the question is whether or not to delay the experience. BTW, 100k per year is no gimmee - even from an Ivy league school. Also, 100K probably translates to about 65k after taxes so nine years is probably not enough time to recoup the money.

If he turned down the 1.8 because it was the Indians - then the hell with him!!!! If he turned it down because he was greedy - then he got burnt. But if he turned it down because he wanted to experience college - then I wish him only the best. Shag stayed three years in college because he wanted to experience it - and he is doing alright for himself. Does anyone know why he actually turned it down? Sure he could always have gone back to college later, but if he really wanted to "experience" college, then he needed to do it right after high school. Maybe, just maybe, he put his life before money - and if he did, I am willing to bet he will do just fine. Now then, what could I do with that 1.8..................!!!!

Backdash & Cleveland, You're both leaving out the earnings from the assumed $900K over the period of time the player would be in school, plus during the time he'd be earning a living after getting out of school. The time to re-coup $900K would be much longer when you factor these in. Of course, after buying their Escalade or Hummer, or whichever car is "in" this year, along with a few other expensive toys, they might not have $800K left to invest, but in any case, it is an incredible opportunity. If they've signed a LOI with a quality school, they can always get a high quality education for free, but of course many don't take advantage of that when they leave baseball.

Of course you take the money. After agents fee and taxes you will still have approximately 1.1 million.How long does it take a college graduate to earn 1.1 million after taxes. At 60 k per year it will take them 30 years to make that. Not factoring in the time value of having the money today. Just investing the 1.1 million in 5 % tax free bonds they would earn 55,000 a year for the rest of their lives. Plus college is paid for with the MLB program. Sure they miss the college experience, but they are is great shape financially for the rest of their lives. Each to their own, but I think he got some bad advice. From what I understand, he wanted to play pro ball and held out for more money. Ask Matt Harrington if he wished he would have taken the 3 + million that he turned down now. Horne has been at 2 different colleges, a Junior College abnd is fighting to get a chance at pro ball now. Best wishes to him and the pursuit of his dream.

If it were my son, he would go to school. $1.8 million is not enough for a lifetime or much more than a good start (unless, of course, your ambitions and abilities are extremely limited). College is a better start. And if he is good enough and avoids injury, that money will be greater later. Plus, in college you are allowed to fail and still have a chance. Pro ball at 18 is very, very tough and very, very high risk. You can be washed up at 20, and most of these guys never do go to college, paid for or not.

College gives you a better life in so many ways for a much longer time.

Are you afraid of money?

Think people.

There are at least 10-15, 20-23 yr olds helping coach HS baseball here in NV. i only know of 1 that returned to school to get their degree...many did not even try, they needed to get a JOB, and Mom and Dad were did not have an available room...the odds seem to be less than 5% return. They are lucky to make $10 hr now at a job that won't be a career. Alot of the HS head coaches I know across the country are very similar having played and are now teachers making 35,000. Not a good thing...in my opinion.

I have seen so many kids take 10,000 to 150,000 and go to rookie ball, only to see them return after the next 1 or 2 draft cycles to nothing, with no $$$ to show for it and a broken dream. Never able to play in college, watching their friends at college games, and kicking themselves while trying to teach a bunch of 15-17 yr olds a game that they couldn't master.

Granted there may be a few aspiring young men who can take the 1.8, and after taxes take the 1.1 and pay another 100,000 to the agent and then take the 900,000 and live well for a few years AND go back and get a degree. You can count them on one hand. They won the game!

IMHO, Go to college with a full scholarship.You will get it if you are a top 10 rounder...and have a chance at a great degree with a future AND play baseball. You still will have a chance to sign after your junior year with 6 semesters under your belt, more experienced, more mature and with more bargaining power. If by chance, you get hurt, that can happen anytime, and if so, try to rehab in rookie or A ball when every guy wants your job vs continuing to further your education and rehab in college...and eat 3 times a day...what a novel idea?

Choices are difficult, but weighing the consequences can be even more enlightning. For those who believe you should go for your dream from HS, you can research the statistics, MLB has them, but try to get them to give them to your son.

The mark I would set as a win situation would be 3.0 Million...then you have the 1.5 or so to invest and if your son IS concerned about his WORKING future, he may still go to school online while pursuing his dream, and finish after his time has come, which it will with money in the bank.

For those who have this tough choice, you are lucky...congrats...and for those who choose a degree, when you graduate making 6 figures, you may see some applications that have a familiar tone...ex minor league baseball player with lots of experience living in a communal environment. Can live on $100/week, I don't eat much and enjoy long bus rides...

Great topic, tough decision!

Todays youth had better be ready for life after baseball because baseball aint forever

Teacherman:

If the question is directed at me, my answer is no, of course not. Money provides a lot of good and is one of many measures of success. My problem here is that $1.8 million is not enough. Not even close.

There ya go TR....
If they take the money and dont go to school as well they will pay the price in some way shape or form at some point .

first off in florida there is NO state income tax, so after taxes he has $1,188,000, then take into the 3-4% most advisors charge on draft picks, where you can deduct some of the agent fees through taxes since its a business expense. but without accounting for deductions the agents fee of 4% would be $72,000 on $1.8 million, so for a player living in florida taking the money he would be left with $1,116,000 after taxes and agents fees, so he would have all of that money, PLUS college which is included in the college scholarship plan IF hes concerned about college. Then also you gotta remember that you get money from endorsements and card companies because you go first round, i know that Lastings Milledge got a $50,000 card deal out of the first round. And all he had to do for that is sign 2000 cards and they handed him a check for $50,000. not bad huh? so personally, i question Horne's sanity, but thats just me.

Simple Fact---odds are against a player going
to college after his baseball days are over--just look at all the batting cage/training facilties run by ex pro ball players

quote:

Originally posted by jemaz:
Teacherman:

If the question is directed at me, my answer is no, of course not. Money provides a lot of good and is one of many measures of success. My problem here is that $1.8 million is not enough. Not even close.

You have to be from the arrogant academia fraternity.
You know, those guys who despise people who make money without a degree...............how dare they.

1.8M is not enough to forego college?????

Get out your calculator. 1.8M is about what he's likely to make in his lifetime.........with a college degree. And he could still go to college even though TR and the others believe if some don't they all can't.

Have you guys ever heard of herd mentality? I suggest you find new friends.

If you're going to college to learn to make money you're making a sad mistake. Colleges know this. The business world knows this. Yet, they all say how important it is. After all, they need someone to fill the cublicles so they can travel the world.

I believe it's important. I just can not connect the dots between a degree and making good money. There are obvious exceptions....doctors and other professionals. But what percentage of college graduates are they.......10%-20%. Oh that poor 80% that fell for the trap and got a degree and will never make but $50,000 per year. Who put the move on them???

$50,000/year for 40 years = $2,000,000.

And here is a kid who can get 1.8M by saying yes.

And you say no, go to college.

I have to live up to my reputation and say......you're a frickin idiot.

Teacherman,
People to you are idiots because they do not agree with you?
We've had these discussions before, what someone decides about THEIR future is really not our business.
When my son came home from college during christmas we asked him if per chance he was sorry he did not consider going pro after HS. He told us he wouldn't have it any other way, even for a few million dollars.
He may not agree with you, go ahead call him a frickin idiot...I DARE YA!

TigerPawMom.....very glad you are back! Missed your way with words...

We know a kid who took the money.....and, now, four years later.....wishes he had gone to college....injuries/surgeries....can happen in school or in the minors....he just feels that he would have more to fall back on now....he values the college experience and education he didn't get more than the bonus money he has....

TEACHERMAN

Some times you sound intelligent other times (most) you do not seem to have a clue!!!

Everybody calm down. It would be a very personal situation for any lucky family to be in that position. The money at some point is going to have to be considered. Most young men play this game because they love the game, not necessarily for the money. That being said, money has considered for a big decision like this. 1.8 million doesn't buy happiness, but it does go a long way in providing for a life that not many enjoy. If a 18 year old truly values his education, even if he signs and fails, he will take the MLB plan and go to college. How many people do we all know the went to college later in life and had successful careers. If we are afraid that our sons won't go back and get their degrees, how committed were they to their education in the first place. If anyone truly values a higher education and someone pays for it, whether it be in the form of a scholarship or the MLB plan, they will get it. What difference does it make at what age. Having a strong opinion on this is personal, let's not resort to name calling.

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
Teacherman,
People to you are idiots because they do not agree with you?
...

Has nothing to do with agreeing with me.

Has something to do with brain power.

quote:

Originally posted by arizonared:
.......he just feels that he would have more to fall back on now....he values the college experience and education he didn't get more than the bonus money he has....

Well, I recommend he enroll.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
TEACHERMAN

Some times you sound intelligent other times (most) you do not seem to have a clue!!!

Better than never, like many cattle on this board.

Please, someone attack my response to jemaz about it not being enough money to skip college.

Assume a well liked poster said it so you can be rational.

quote:

...1.8 million doesn't buy happiness, ...

If I'm going to be unhappy, I'd rather be unhappy with 1.8M than unhappy and broke.

Teacherman- Don't attack everyone who has a different idea than you. Obviously, this would be a very personal decision for each player and family.

I think Florida Dad hit the nail on the head though -if a kid does have the foresight and drive to go to college as an 18 year old, I believe he would as a 20, 22, or whatever. The time was not right for me to continue college after highschool, so I went back late 20's and didn't receive my degree until I was 30 years old. People do it all the time.

I'll say again, if my son ever had that opportunity, I'd support him all the way!

lafmom

I was going to respond to TEACHERMAN but you said it all

Thamx

As the wife of one who was told to take the scholarship, hurt the arm and sees his friends still playing or coaching, he regrets his decision big time. Mom and Dad said to take the college scholarship and he could play later. He has told his boys that if they truly want to play baseball at that level and make the sacrifices to do so, they have our blessing.

Backdash says to do both. Smartest guy in the group. Everyone is rationalizing to make their point. The chance of making it to the bigs out of high school is small. So is the chance of making huge bucks with a degree. Both are a small minority. Entrepreneurs make the big bucks.

A small minority ever go back to college. A small minority ever make the kind of bucks that would equal 1.8 mill invested will earn them. Over 40 years that is 2mill + the original money = 3.1 mill. That doesn't include whatever other money the player may earn in his lifetime. even at 50k per year that is another 2 mill. That is a total of 5.1 mill over 40 years. That is providing that you never invest any more or save any more and spend it all every year. With proper money management a person with a good investment counselor could have as much as 50%-100% more than that over 40 years. With a degree it would take earning 125k per year from time of graduation (which would 4 years later than the kid out of hs. Already 500k behind) to earn that much provided they invest the same. How many college grads earn 125k out of graduation. Very few. More after a Masters, but then you are 7 years behind or 875k. Do the math.

Few will go back to college and few will earn out of college what it will take to match that much money. Make your own choice and live with it, but college and career sometimes don't work out any better than making it to the pros. In this case making it to the pros can make one financially secure for life if handled right.

Save the some guys won't handle the money speech. Same happens with college grads.

Teacherman,
Is it enough money to surpass college, you want an answer?
Yes, it is a lot for someone to give up if he may never get a chance again to see that type of money, or not make that type of money in his lifetime. Or know that he may not be in that situation again.
No, it is not enough if you have the potential to earn that in your lifetime. We live in a town where doctors, lawyers, enterprenuers, etc. are very wealthy people, many of the kids here will be extremely successful, even more so than their parents. For many here, that's pocket change.
I know of quite a few who got nice signing bonus' who are from our area. I heard that after the fancy cars, toys etc, in one case it is gone. Not sure if it is true, but it is talk. If mine had signed, the next day he would have been signed up for online classes. I am a firm believer in higher education. I think that most parents who have college+ degrees feel the same way. However, the whole college experience (not just baseball) is something that stays with you for a lifetime.
So therefore, I go back to my original statement, it personal decision, and if we agree with it or not, that is our opinion, there is no need for name calling.
I have told this story before, I know of someone who passed up LOTS of money to go to college. Not quite a million, but enough to make his family a little more comfortable. He took the scholarship, because he was the FIRST in his entire family to ever have a chance to go to college. To each his own.

$1,800,000.00

There is only a handful of high school players who would ever turn it down. Of course, those who do become very well known.

There aren't very many who ever have this choice. 10-15 each year at the most and we all know, most all of them take the money.

I know this is about baseball, but what if it wasn't? What if someone offered a high school kid $1.8 million to simply not attend college right away. And they said that they would pay for your college education completely if you wanted to go later.

How many people would turn down that offer? Then if you love baseball, it's even better. You get to play baseball and get paid for it.

I don't hold it against anyone who chooses the college route. I know some people who have really turned down that kind of money and went to college. John Mayberry went to Stanford for one. Jeremy Sowers, Matt Harrington, Alan Horne, etc. are others

One thing that seems to stand out is that position players don't have quite the same risk involved as pitchers. Obviously, this is due to injury factors more than anything else. Some college programs don’t take care of the arms as well as major league organizations do. So it is important that a young pitcher who is turning down lots of money find the right program.

Everyone has a different opinion of the actual value of a college education. For some it’s worth $1.8 million I guess. But would anyone here pay $1.8 million to go to college? Maybe I’m not looking at this correctly, but indirectly isn’t that what happened in this case.

I do understand that the goal is to end up with both (education and big signing bonus) and that has happened in the past. However, one should understand the risk involved. Obviously this risk revolves around how important $1.8 million is to the individual. Most kids signing out of high school are getting far less money than that.

Anyway, there is no right or wrong… If only we had a crystal ball!

TPM, Pocket Change?
That's what I'd call "Deep Pockets"

quote:

Better than never, like many cattle on this board.

Spoken like a truely educated man...

TPM...you are 100% correct, the 4 year college experience is Priceless. People such as Teacherman can't begin to understand the $$ value of college because they are envious and respond through aggression and name-calling. A spirited debate or 2 in college would have helped prepare him for times like these, where opinion and difference teach one another rather than create distance and departure.

Welcome Back TPMOM.

quote:

Originally posted by Teacherman:
You can have college or you can have college plus 1.8m.

Here is my original statement for the herd WHO HAVE TO TURN THIS INTO AN EITHER OR, so that you don't look as stupid as you are.

PG,
Let me know next time you are in the area, I'll give you a tour...lol.
First we could do Palm Beach, then Boca Raton, then the intercoastal in Ft lauderdale.
My treat
Starzz,
Thanks for understanding my point, everyone has their own opinion.
Teacherman has a lot to learn.

PG hit the nail on the head and did it in a very polite way.

Take the money....Unless you're drafted after the 10th round and get two coupons to McDonald's; a plane ticket; a couple of grand; and, are doomed to be an organizational player.

Can ALWAYS go to college.

Can't always play professional baseball.

A no brainer, folks!