Does Baseball Need more Outward Emotion?

NO WAY!!!!

 

I would never watch a game of baseball again.

Those players lack what I call humility, something that is taught to those who play baseball at a very young age. Hasn't he ever seen a team in a pile up after a huge win? Or a player returning to the dug out after a HR?  Or a celebration after a walk off hit?

 

Maybe your son should take up basketball?

 

My son is a baseball lifer.  Loves the game with a passion. Plays with passion.  Works on his craft with great dedication.  Analyses the game like crazy.  He's not talking about himself.  He's talking about how baseball can bring his generation of fans into it.

Yeah, baseball shows some major emotion. It just doesn't happen at the rate of basketball or football , so it seems like it may not happen too much. Here's my issue with other sports, I feel they tend to over act on certain celebrations. A slam dunk (worth all of two points) in the second quarter of a game truly deserves a fist pumping back down the court and bench going wild jumping all around? Maybe, but I doubt it. Now, if it were to win the game, sure. In football you sack a qb and you act like you just won the Super Bowl? C'mon. Sacks are fun but over acting is a mainstay in these sports. I become more and more disconnected with it as time goes by. Baseball has been solid and consistent with celebrations of base hits, HR's and walk off hits. It's great entertainment and drama is exciting. It happens almost every night where someone can be that day's hero or goat. What else would you ask for?

+1

 Fist pump a great play or a HR and you get drilled your next at bat!

Has your son seen Chris Rock's take on this?  I don't agree with him overall, but he is a smart guy who makes some good points.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFFQkQ6Va3A

 

Your son as a teenager (I assume) is who MLB wants to engage... Not 50 year olds like myself.  Nonetheless, I basically can't watch basketball anymore... The "emotions"-on-the-sleeve are ridiculously over the top, IMO.  Drive the lane for a lay up... Pound your chest. That and the incessant, shameless flopping.  The NFL isn't much better, and I've found myself less interested in football the past several years.  I've never been a soccer guy, but what I see of that sport professionally is more of the same... No thanks.

 

Baseball continues to have it about right, IMO.  The culture, for now at least, remains mostly centered around governing your emotions... Instead of basking in them.  I think you have a good opportunity to have a conversation with your son about the value of this in his everyday life (and on the yard).

IMy take on this is I think Soylet is right. Baseball has it about right. The thing that is difereent with baseball compared to football and basketball where they celebrate to excess in doing what you are supposed to do and what is expected of you to to do, is that if you gloat too much, the game itself will bite you on the backside. And quickly. All should remember that baseball is a lot about how you deal with failure. Hit a home run, wait a while. An error is lurking somewhere. Do you realy want to be the guy who pounds his chest over a routine play only to have the ball go between the legs? And that happens to the best players, not just the ones near the bottom. NO , baseball doesnt need chest thumpers like DB's in football. Just MHO.

Nope. IMO it's what makes baseball better than the other sports. There is nothing wrong with a sport having a little dignity and class. I also get tired of all this its just a new generation thing. My 14 year old and a number of his teammates feel the same way. Not all the young athletes think acting like an idiot because you did what your supposed to do is cool.

sluggerdad,

Attitudes towards and emotion and decorum in the game is a great topic. On one end of the spectrum, there's Japanese baseball.  On the other end, there's Latin American baseball.  

 

Slate Magazine, "Passion Play:  Latin players are bringing exuberance and emotion to baseball. It's time to embrace it."

 

Here are some excerpts from that article:

 

The biggest dissonance in the game right now is between the showmanship of Latino players and the stoicism of the old guard. Some believe it is the fight for baseball's soul. Some believe that allowing such behavior will irreparably damage the game. It's a silly argument, of course, but it's happening. 

 

 

 

 

 

From an NPR article:

 

Baseball is a source of national pride, and on-field drama is played up for the benefit of Cuban fans. Burgos says it's not just about winning; it's about entertaining the spectators: "Players play to the crowd in Cuba." He adds, "They want to make the crowd be loud, so they play up the highs and the lows. But those behaviors that work in Cuba become the basis of how they get chastised in the American press; they're 'too loud, too celebratory.'

Different but similar - Son and I were flipping between Big12 Baseball Tournament (OU-OSU) and College Softball regionals (OU-Ala) this weekend.

 

He commented that softball had  a lot more energy/excitement and faster pace.  Baseball was played very "serious", even though it is not anymore serious than other sports.

There are times I've been watching pro football or basketball where I've thought, "Congratulations. You did your job" as the player celebrates a routine play. It bothers me in football when a player trots away from the play to celebrate in wide open space. It screams, "Look at me. I'm wonderful." I can tune it out in the pro game. But when I'm watching college games I'm very aware it's not occurring.

 

Kids are into the self celebration now. Look at the tee shirts with the in your face and self important sayings they wear. I'm proud of my kids hey never wore them. They were raised to act like they've done it before and will do it again. They've always been shy of praise. They never wanted to be singled out for the team winning. The only in your face tee shirt my daughter ever wore was in defense of being a girl. It was a volleyball tee that said, "I hit like a girl. 100 mph in your face."

 

When we were kids playing pickup football we would Billy "White Shoes" Johnson a touchdown. But we would never consider it once we got to school ball. In practice it would mean getting yelled at. In a game it's a penalty.

 

Baseball doesn't need more hot dogging. Baseball needs more hitting.

My son played in PR and in Mexico...3 letters to describe the experiences..OMG.

I can guarantee that you would not find it amusing. It even shocked son.

 

Picture this one, a man in  a gorilla suit (mascot) on the field while the ball is in play. 

Now, does that really add to the game.  

 

Here's the thing, I live in America, I am watching a game played in America, I dont want to play by anyone elses rules whether it be  Japan, Mexico, Australia, Taiwan Cuba, etc. I mean I love to watch Puig, but do you want every guy on your team to be like that?

Albert Pujols is latino, but he really sent a message to Puig last year because of his showmanship that is not acceptable to most players and fans, here in the good old USA.

A friend of mine pitched in the Caribbean on the way to the majors. He knew what the fans wanted. He came into the game and threw his eight warm ups. Before the first batter he took off his glasses, squinted and wiped them off. He looked into the catcher like he was trying to see him. His first pitch was a 90 mph fastball (late 70s) five feet over and five feet behind the hitter. The legend of El Loco Gringo was born.

One area that is a problem, IMO... 

In Calif HS, players can't come out of the dugout even when a HR is hit or a huge hit sways a game.  Picture this - Visitors down by two in the top of the last inning of a game that determines league champs.  Player hits a three run HR to give them the lead.  Bench goes nuts and comes out and congratulates hitter at the dish - all done with zero disrespect to opposition.  Instead of it being the celebration it should be, team gets a stern warning by two umps and is quickly shuttled off the field before they can get to the hitter.  Something wrong with that rule.

 

I totally agree and am sick of football and basketball celebrations for basic playmaking but a true celebration moment should be allowed to play out.

IMO, I love guys who show emotion while playing the game it makes me feel like those are the ones who truly care about baseball. That's why my favorite players are Puig, Machado, and Harper. That's why they're the biggest stars in the game by playing the game with emotion it draw attention to them, good or bad, Ask yourself who is more well known, Harper or Harvey? Probably harper because of his tremendous play combined with his arrogant attitude.

Arrogance and showing emotions are two different things.

Some people think Harvey is extremely arrogant, but he doesnt act like a jerk on the field.  Bad choice for an example.

If you follow baseball, you know who everyone is.

 

I agree that celebrating a routine play is a bit over the top (especially at the pro level) - that's what is expected.    But if it's a play that takes extraordinary effort, I could see a little celebration - maybe a fist pump or high five with a team mate.  Especially in a clutch situation - say a playoff game or championship.

 

My son has only celebrated a hit a few times that I know of.  Once in HS - championship game, bottom of the 7th trailing by 1 run, two outs, runner on 2nd and he hits an RBI double into the LF corner.  He pumped his fist after he got to 2B.  Team would go onto win in the 8th.  Second time was in college.  They were playing a conference opponent, trailing by 1 in the late innings.  He comes up big with a RBI double to tie the game.  Again, another fist pump, but not in anyone's face.  Unfortunately, they lost on a walkoff HR.

Baseball season is too long to celebrate like other sports (plus it looks stupid to celebrate when down by 20 pts).  Baseball has great celebrations that are on par with how long the season is.

 

Check out this early season 2013 (you can still see opening day paint on the field) walk off by the Dodgers and see how they celebrate.  You can fast forward to the 5 min mark.

 

I wonder if we are talking ESPN type emotion as distinguished with what I would perceive as the emotion which allows players to successfully compete at a very high level over 162 games.

While players like Puig, Machado and Harper capture the ESPN highlights, I believe Buster Posey was voted the face of MLB for this season.  Posey, Pence, Bumgarner and others like Jeter, AGon, Kershaw all play with emotion, but it would probably be better described as intensity coupled with incredible focus, of the type needed over 162 games player over about 175 or so days.

Stated differently, whether it be Puig, Harper or Machado, each has had major, major meltdowns including Machado throwing a bat at a pitcher.  Baseball is a visible sport so if you draw such attention to yourself when you have an individual success, you better be ready to have that attention drawn to you when you $uck for 2-3 weeks also, including the attention demanded by the media.

Finally, when anyone listens to the guys who have carried the Giants to 3 CWS rings in 5 years, no one  hears Posey, Pence, Bumgarner, Bochy or anyone speaking about what they did.  They talk about how everyone contributed and did their job and point to in game/in-season clear cut examples. 

If your son ever gets the opportunity to play about 135 games in 150 days, ask him, as a player, how he felt  when it was 90 degrees and 90% humidity come July 15 to September 5 and how much "emotion" he had to be celebrating, fist pumping and the like. 

 

Immigrants often learn English by watching a lot of tv. I coached a kid from South America in basketball. Whenever he scored his parents would yell out, "Boo-yah."

Yes, but who do you think the younger generation is more drawn to Harper or Posey? I also happen to believe the younger generation has a bit more emotion. And when I think of future stars of the MLB I see Puig, Harper and Machado. All guys are young and have a little bit of swagger to them. I think being cocky and arrogant is for attention and I don't have anything against it. Harper, Puig, and Machado, Love them or hate them you sure find yourself watching them and talking about them.

SluggerDad, 

Have your son watch what Ole Miss does after a home run:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYZnizAAeP4

or between innings:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1poy5nZUIpk

 

We've all heard and talked about how baseball is a metaphor for life. I believe it is -- much more so that other sports. It's a marathon. It's a grind. It takes perseverance. It humbles even the best. It requires stamina, skill, optimism, guts, and most of all -- the ability to get back up after being knocked down again and again.

 

If these things are true, one would expect celebrations to be tempered -- just as they are in most endeavors. Rarely do we go overboard when we have a big win in other areas of our lives. We are happy, proud, fulfilled. But we know it's a journey, so we pace ourselves.

 

And I'll bet I speak for many here when I say I love it when my son crosses the plate after a bomb ... or comes off the field after making a great catch in the outfield ... displaying calmness and confidence ... plus that telling expression of gratitude. 

I agree baseball has it right.  There is more emotion with baseball as the season progresses and the stakes are higher in the Fall.  You see emotion at the right times in a game...ie starting pitcher strikes out the side, reliever gets out of a jam for his team, go ahead home run, or walk off hit.  

 

I'm more concerned with other sports and the camera-in-your-face-media-circus our society has become.  I don't watch professional basketball anymore...totally lost interest about 20 years ago and I've got no desire to see it ever again.  

 

I've played tennis my whole life and I see that sport eroding with the fist pumps and the "let's go" after every freaking point especially on the women's professional tour.  I'm starting to see that "fist pump" behavior trickle down to the junior tennis levels and even people that play recreationally.  It is utterly ridiculous and it nauseates me what tennis has become....look at me and let's all take a selfie.   Please, let's act like we've been there before (any sport) even if we haven't.  JMO.

To all 50 something year olds who  think baseball has it just  right, more power to you.  Look I like baseball pretty much the way it is.  But people with my tastes aren't part of the long term future.   Many of the teenagers and 20 somethings who are voting with their clickers don't seem to agree with the 50 year old purists.  Not a situation that bodes well for baseball.  I'd hate to see baseball go the way of symphony orchestras.  (or the Republican Party -- which also keeps getting older and older).   Go to a symphony concert these days and you'd think you were sitting in a mausoleum. (The Republicans admittedly aren't quite that bad off yet, but every year their electorate gets older and older.  That can only continue for so long, people being mortal and all.)

 

 

I'm going to say this - baseball is meant to be fun and you are supposed to enjoy fun things.  I see nothing wrong with outwardly showing you are having fun and enjoying success.  But that doesn't give you the right to act like a horse's a$$ just because you're happy.  I have my own limits as to what I consider appropriate and that is what my team will do. I'm sure you have your own.  Overall I think MLB has it just right overall.

Oh yeah I also believe in "showtime" karma.  I was playing golf yesterday and made a putt from a makeable distance to bring me within 2 strokes of the guy leading with 2 holes left.  I made a fist pump and said a few choice trash words.  Needless to say the next hole it blew up for me and I lost the stroke I gained as well as 3 more strokes.  I like to think that if I hadn't fist pumped and talked trash it would have done more to help me close the gap more than my inability to play golf.

1st thing that popped in my head was 1 of my biggest pet peeves....

 

Defensive player on the football field makes tackle after 10-15 yard gain but celebrates like it was a 10-15 yard loss.  Nothing grinds my gears quite like that.

 

The baseball equivalent might be a 2B going bananas after a routine ground out 4-2 PO.  

 

No thanks.  

 

Rich

www.PlayInSchool.com/bus_tour

Setting aside the political comment (which, at a time when the press is full of stories about the Democrats' challenge attracting young candidates ... and the surge in college-age Republicans ... is questionable at best):

 

I understand now that this is all about attracting youth to baseball. Overt celebrations is just one thought on how to possibly do that.

 

I agree we need to think hard about attracting kids to baseball. So many distractions and choices these days. In fact, this is a priority for the new MLB commish. It's behind new rules speeding up the game ... outreach to inner city athletes ... and more. 

 

So I'd say it's a challenge -- but one that will we will overcome. But not with hot-doggery. 

 

DB knocks down a pass. Celebrates by banging his chest. Of course he has already been beat 5 times deep today. LB makes a tackle 10 yards down field after being blown up. Celebrates like he just got a sack. Wideout catches a 10 yard out and celebrates like he caught the other 3 passes he dropped. BB player dunks over a 5'10 guard. Goes nuts like he isn't down by 25 with 3 minutes to do in the game.

 

It's the ME thing. Let me put the spotlight on me. It's not emotion. It's look at me. Look what I did. Emotion is a good thing when its pure and true. A walk off HR? A walk off hit? A hit to score the go ahead run late? A great play to end an inning in a close game? A great pitch in a great battle with a hitter?

 

I told my son to act like he has been there before. To let the emotion burn inside of him and use it to help him help his team. To never let it be about him. When he hit a walk off HR in college he rounded the bases like he had hit a HR with nothing on the line. All the time I knew inside he was saying "Hel yes.!" I knew it. I knew what he was feeling. He knew I knew that. And that made it even more special.

 

Emotion displayed that is genuine and proper given the circumstances is special. Emotion for the sake of showing it means nothing. When players have grinded in this game like they have to get to there. And they realize they are one play, one bad year, one bad month, one pitch away from being the goat instead of the hero then they get it.

 

Instead of changing the game to attract young people. Maybe we need to teach our young people how cool humility and respect for the game actually are? JMO

I am old and not the future of any sport.The youth are the future, whether we like it or not.  Their opinions will be what decides who wins and who loses.

 

I don’t like a lot of things about football and basketball celebrations.  However, those are the most successful sports.  They used to not have those celebrations.  They changed. 

Are celebrations part of the reason those sports are growing in popularity?  Who knows.  We do know that baseball is declining.  If you change nothing, the trend tells you where this  ends.

Just listened to Colin Cowherd talk about this exact thing. He commented on a gesture James Hardin made after a basket last night. Basically said it was unnecessary and bush. He said "Make the basket and get back and play defense." He went on to say how Hardin is an all star and should act like one. Bird, Magic, Tim Duncan, etc never acted that way after making A shot during the progression of a game. It's the same thing as I mentioned earlier in the thread... Pretty interesting take from a talking head.

+1 Exactly, Coach.

Does anyone attend a game to watch how players react to success? I would think they choose to go to see players perform well. When Billy "White Shoes" Johnson danced in the end zone it was unique. Now that most players celebrate it's not a big deal. 

 

I once asked my son what he thinks about rounding the bases on a homer. He said, "Everyone is watching. Don't trip over a base." He said a hustle double feels more natural than jogging around the bases.

 

When end he hit his first (kid pitch) over the fence homer in LL all stars he rounded third with his best Harry Callas imitation, "That baby is outta here, home run." He was talking to his teammates waiting at the plate. It was pure reaction. The opposing coach got real ticked off.

Couldn't have said it better. 

Um...not sure what book you are reading, but MLB revenue last year was $9B up 13% from prior year and barely second to NFL ($9.5B) and way more than NBA (<$5B). 

 

Baseball is bigger than ever.  The report of it's demise has been greatly exaggerated.

Smith ... You can do whatever denial you want. But MLB has identified a problem. The average age of a viewer of a televised baseball game is in his 50s. Less and less kids are playing baseball. They're already not watching the game. The big bucks in sports is the television revenue. MLB recognizes a dangerous trend heading in the wrong direction.

 

The Red Sox are one of the financially successful teams. They've already started taking action to attract youth. They see a future problem if they don't.

Baseball coffers are definitely busting.  Question is whether the current model is sustainable into the future.   Cause a countervailing trend is that youth aren't watching or playing nearly at the rate they used to.   As RJM the average age of baseball watchers is in mid 50's.  That's not the  demographic of a growing industry -- unless you think that the kids who are tuning out baseball will somehow decide to tune it in as they age.  That would be better on a miracle,