Does On Base % include Reached on Error?
Original Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
No. On base is calculated as follows.
Top of fraction: hits + walks + hit by pitch
Bottom of fraction: at bats + walks + hit by pitch + sac flys
Doesn't seem fair that sac flys go against on base but they do even though they are not an at bat. My son at the first of last season had no walks and two sac flies. His batting average was higher than his on base.
Top of fraction: hits + walks + hit by pitch
Bottom of fraction: at bats + walks + hit by pitch + sac flys
Doesn't seem fair that sac flys go against on base but they do even though they are not an at bat. My son at the first of last season had no walks and two sac flies. His batting average was higher than his on base.
quote:+ hit by pitch
Bottom of fraction: at bats +
quote:Bottom of fraction: at bats + walks + hit by pitch + sac flys
Doesn't seem fair that sac flys go against on base but they do even though they are not an at bat. My son at the first of last season had no walks and two sac flies. His batting average was higher than his on base.
Whomever calculated your son's batting average made a mistake. Sacrifice Flies are NOT counted as at bats, per the following rule:
"10.02
The official score report prescribed by the league president shall make provisions for entering the information listed below, in a form convenient for the compilation of permanent statistical records:
(a) The following records for each batter and runner:
(1) Number of times he batted, except that no time at bat shall be charged against a player when
(i) He hits a sacrifice bunt or sacrifice fly
(ii) He is awarded first base on four called balls
(iii) He is hit by a pitched ball
(iv) He is awarded first base because of interference or obstruction."
baseballpapa is correct; sacrifice flies are included in the denominator.
From the OBR:
DETERMINING PERCENTAGE RECORDS
10.22
To compute
.....
f) On-base percentage, divide the total of hits, all bases on balls, and hit by pitch by the total of at bats, all bases on balls, hit by pitch and sacrifice flies.
NOTE: For the purpose of computing on-base percentage, ignore being awarded first base on interference or obstruction.
From the OBR:
DETERMINING PERCENTAGE RECORDS
10.22
To compute
.....
f) On-base percentage, divide the total of hits, all bases on balls, and hit by pitch by the total of at bats, all bases on balls, hit by pitch and sacrifice flies.
NOTE: For the purpose of computing on-base percentage, ignore being awarded first base on interference or obstruction.
Interesting that you include sac flies but not sac bunts?
biggerpapi, it has been explained to me that the reason for this is mainly because sac bunts are seen as intentional and a sac fly is not.
It is interesting that the other night on ESPN, there was a discussion on hitting to the right side and moving a runner from 2nd to 3rd. The "expert" said he believed in the next 2-3 years this may be changed to count similar to a sacrifice because the player is giving himself up.
It is interesting that the other night on ESPN, there was a discussion on hitting to the right side and moving a runner from 2nd to 3rd. The "expert" said he believed in the next 2-3 years this may be changed to count similar to a sacrifice because the player is giving himself up.
I would rather call it a quality at bat. Baseball is unfair anyway. Hit it hard right to a fielder -- out! Miss it and bloop it over a fielder -- base hit. Player in the outfield loses it in the sun -- base hit! Player reaches over a fence and hauls it in -- out! I love this game.
By the way, I didn't say a sac fly was an at-bat, what I said is it is included in the denominator. I believe I read that was calculated first in the 40s or 50s. Bet someone out there knows. My son's BA was lower than his on base because he had more sac flys than walks.
By the way, I didn't say a sac fly was an at-bat, what I said is it is included in the denominator. I believe I read that was calculated first in the 40s or 50s. Bet someone out there knows. My son's BA was lower than his on base because he had more sac flys than walks.
biggerpapi,
When I coach I keep an "unofficial on-base" which includes everytime they get on, error, passed ball or wild pitch K, even a fielder's choice. Every year I get a kid that just somehow gets on. Sometimes errors occur because a player hits hard ground balls and gets down the line. I go against the traditional stats and move this guy up in the order.
When I coach I keep an "unofficial on-base" which includes everytime they get on, error, passed ball or wild pitch K, even a fielder's choice. Every year I get a kid that just somehow gets on. Sometimes errors occur because a player hits hard ground balls and gets down the line. I go against the traditional stats and move this guy up in the order.
baseballpapa, I agree with you on the unofficial on-base. The only thing is the fielder's choice. I only count on base for a fielder's choice that does not create an out (fielder making play to another base, but runner is safe, etc).
I agree, I put it in to emphasize hustle. Got to get to first to avoid making a FC a DP.
Reaching on a error doesn't go towards on base percentage? I always thought it did because, consider the runner is hustling down the line and forces a bad throw, or the runner blocks the sight of the ball from the fielder and he boots it.
Another consideration that has bothered me over the years are the "fielders choice" where the base runner did not make due to lack of speed or failure get a good jump on the play. Another runner may have made the base easily but they penalize the batter for that.
Three times last summer I saw different kids fail to tag at third on a fly ball and not get home. Instead of the batter getting an RBI and sac fly it was simply F8, on three different occasions. How's that for fair?
But getting on by error doesn't count in on base.
But getting on by error doesn't count in on base.
The general idea is that over the long run, line outs and dribble hits and such even out -- not that they are equal in number, but they tend to occur with similar frequency from player to player, so that you can compare stats from one player to another without too much thought going into things like this.
izzismom, to me it's not that the batter is penalized because his lead runner is slow...the fielder's choice goes against his BA because if there was no lead runner, then it's routine ground out and he's out anyway.
Here's the overriding idea I get when reading all of these posts...Baseball is a game that doesn't always seem fair. Someone else screws up, it hurts your numbers. Hit the ball on a rope, right at someone and get out. Play enough baseball and these things even themselves out. One game cannot be the indicator of your success.
Baseball can be the most frustrating game and the most beautiful game all at once.
I love it!!!
Here's the overriding idea I get when reading all of these posts...Baseball is a game that doesn't always seem fair. Someone else screws up, it hurts your numbers. Hit the ball on a rope, right at someone and get out. Play enough baseball and these things even themselves out. One game cannot be the indicator of your success.
Baseball can be the most frustrating game and the most beautiful game all at once.
I love it!!!
quote:Originally posted by baseballpapa:
When I coach I keep an "unofficial on-base" which includes everytime they get on, error, passed ball or wild pitch K, even a fielder's choice. Every year I get a kid that just somehow gets on. Sometimes errors occur because a player hits hard ground balls and gets down the line. I go against the traditional stats and move this guy up in the order.
BBPapa - I like your way of thinking. Makes more sense.
agree with Beezer from the error/PB/Wp perspective - the batter did something to aid his reaching base [although in most cases the fielder may have actually done a little more to aid that!!]. I don't give props for FC, but I think I'll have to amend my thoughts on SF versus sac bunt - I like the line of thinking
quote:Originally posted by baseballpapa:
Three times last summer I saw different kids fail to tag at third on a fly ball and not get home. Instead of the batter getting an RBI and sac fly it was simply F8, on three different occasions. How's that for fair?
Last year, son was at bat with 2 outs and bases loaded. Smashes a one-hop rope to the CF who throws out (forces) the ultra-slow runner going to 2nd. Cost him a hit and an RBI or maybe 2 RBI's. Yep, sometimes it ain't fair.
You got to love the old 8-4 ground out. I saw a 9-3 put out and the next half-inning the right fielder was thrown out by the guy he threw out, another 9-3 ground out.