domino affect of D1 roster size caps

.
FOG,

Would second this...

Youngers JC has already received two DI drop-downs of very high quality (and I expect more at break)...great opportunity for the program and for the drop down's...difficult for those who have battled all fall...including mine...

But beyond morality/value judgements that is the nature of the competitive sports beast...you have to keep overcoming what they put in front of you and you expect it...NOTHING is guaranteed even for a day...you're only as good as your last AB, you're last pitch...keep improvin'...keep battlin'!

44
.

fan - Arrivals not anticipated by the newbies happens at every program - especially D1's. I have heard one parent comment that the likelihood of your son starting as a freshman in college is the same as him starting as a freshman in high school. It happens, but rarely. Your best protection is to get a large scholarship. It's natural to worry, but please consider that young men thrive on competition.

I wouldnt say I am worried.I really dont have a problem with a freshmen not starting. And your right about new guys coming in. But this year with the rosters all having to go to 35 i think for the 2008 grads with all new rules Im just saying, ask questions. its not even a matter of freshmen starting it could mean all four years. One of the kids i heard about was a scholarship player who is being released because he wont see play time at this particular D1.And competition is part of the game. I just think this graduating class is the guinea pig class with new rules. Not posting this a s particularly for my son but for others as well.Like the coach told my son ask questions, dont think they are totally in the driving seat. when the coaches call the kids need to ask important questions. thats why its called the recruiting process, it is a process where they learn about you and visa versa. some kids are intimidated to ask questions, but coaches expect this and hopefully if they are honest you will get honest answers.no one is going to promise you anything, and with the new money rules and how its given out big scholarships except for position players and total blue chip players (which mine is not of that caliber)might be a thing of the past. look at the blogs on recruited walk ons. they are going to increase when you cant give books etc as a part scholarship and have to give a certain percent a lot of the boys wont see any money for 1-2 years if at all. for my son it has never been about the money. if he can play baseball as long as he enjoys it and gets his degree were happy with that. Im just saying again lots of changes this year. next year it should all settle down.

excuse me I meant for pitchers not position players

I don't disagree with what fanofgame has stated. But just want to throw out some thoughts about labels (D1, D2, D3, etc) that might be helpful to some having mixed-emotions over these type of experiences e.g., bumping down or seeing someone come on to the roster.

A kid who is bumping down may not have been a D1 caliber player in the first place. Likewise, a kid who is currently on a D3 roster (or other level) may in fact be better than many of the so-called D1 kids out there. Of course, there may in fact be kids who are now being bumped off the bottom of a roster somewhere but that is not my point.

There are many reasons other than skill (e.g., academics or exposure) why one kid may have started out at one level or another. I guess my point is at the college level you are going to have to beat out somebody who is very good no matter what the level. There are only so many starting positions out there across all levels and that fact has not changed due to the new rules. The chances of PLAYING in college at any level are the same as they always have been. The chances of remaining on the roster have changed however. Either way (old system or new) it is going to be a battle to get out there on the field.

To quote ob44 from another thread today:

quote:

We all want to believe that our son's are "The only One"...and maybe sometimes they are...but the numbers alone will tell you that they are more likley one of a number of very good players a school is looking at/juggling. We say this over and over...The process is not over until the paperwork is signed, admissions and financial details finalized.

The second thing to remember is that "signed. sealed, and delivered" is only the entre. I am hearing more and more players that arrived at college unprepared, physically and emotionally for the realities of playing college ball. Enjoy that last year of HS...revel in your good fortune, celebrate, cheer, but make no mistake...When you step onto that field/weight room for the first time the honeymoon is over. You are but one of many VERY talented, very experienced players fighting for limited spots. They would not have taken you if they didn't believe in your ability to compete, but compete is the optimum term. The step up is very large, your clippings/rep no longer mean(s) anything, and you need to bring your A game and come fully prepared to compete at a new level from Day 1.

quote:

he was told he had a good chance to start

I don't know of any coach who will recruit a player and say he has no chance of starting. I believe all the well thought out questions will not get you the answer you are looking for. If a coach recruits you he thinks you might have a chance at least in the near future to fit in. Now with the new rules there is less wiggle room and guys who are capable are getting bumped out. It is a bugetary and logistics problem.
I agree with O44 and Brode.
The NLI with a BB scholarship is the best assurance of an opportunity to play. The bigger the scholarship the better.
I agree it is the nature of the beast and that you have to battle every day to keep your spot and that is what we all expect. That doesn't mean that quality D1 players are not cut and forced to go to another opportunity. The new rules just made it a little nastier.
Trying to judge talent is a very difficult thing to do and it is an on going process.

quote:

Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
A kid who is bumping down may not have been a D1 caliber player in the first place.
...
I guess my point is at the college level you are going to have to beat out somebody who is very good no matter what the level. There are only so many starting positions out there across all levels and that fact has not changed due to the new rules.

What kind of message is being sent here to young athletes that read this site? Might it not encourage kids to use unnatural means in order to be competitive? And thus be injurious to some young athlete?

wow thats a little strong reaction. no body is implying anything about size etc, the original post was just to say that kids need to ask questions. a direct quote from a coach to a parent.sorry if that original blog implicates that kids need to use drugs to be able to play.this hs web site is a lot of people giving advice and trying to help each other out. coach said"players moving from D1 to other schools with roster caps is going to cause a domino effect for a lot of players"take that how ever you want.I really just want my kid to get a freaking degree at the end of four years, not try to cause injury to a player..

fan, just a little fun being poked at cd. He felt in another thread that introducing reality to kids would lead them to use steroids, etc. Apparently he has changed his mind.

Should have issued a clearer sarcasm warning.

thanks for the clarification. sorta new at this and would never want to say anything to hrt kids. my son is not a huge guy so I of all parents know what that is like

The bench is only so long. And when the bench is full, and three more players come along to claim their spots, it is pretty obvious that someone will get shoved off the end of the bench.

A few players who are on the bottom of the totem pole skill-wise will no longer have the chance to play college ball. But it will be relatively few, when considering the total number of college players. Not all D1's have been carrying massive rosters.

The domino effect will take place. But if you look at the numbers, in the end it will not be some massive upheaval.

quote:

fan, just a little fun being poked at cd.

Texan, I think that you are off base in poking fun at another member. Friendly teasing back and forth is okay, but I don't think it's mutual in this case. Sorry if it sounds like I'm picking on you, but CD is a friend of mine and also a devoted moderator of the site, so I guess I'm a little sensitive to the situation.

Julie

I believe if any young player who leaves this year to play ball next year in college who reads these posts will see that it's no walk in the park awaiting them. As I read my own self, it reminded me of that program years and years ago called "Scared Straight" where convicts tried to "scare" young and troubled teens straight before it was too late.

My son reads these threads on a daily basis to see what else he may learn about next year starting college. I can't tell you how much he has gleaned from all you good folks. He told me that next year when he is at school and a D1 kid all of a sudden shows up that the spot is up for the hardest worker and may the best man win.

Does HE think he is the one? Absolutely and unequivocally, YES! If he didn't, then I would be concerned on many levels as to why go through this entire process. I believe all our boys think they are. To me that is the epitome of competition!

Merry Christmas all!

Julie, after CD's inappropriate accusations in another thread (e.g., does a player's size affect his opportunities), I don't think it is at all out of line.

I merely introduced reality, as CD is doing here, and suddenly I was injuring young athletes. By my "discouraging and negative" remarks, I was encouraging youth to use 'roids. Both accusations were nonsense. And I was certainly not alone in what I was saying. I don't seem to recall you objecting to those accusations made by CD.

I said "So what does one do when one comes out on the short end of that stick (as in some way, we all will at some point in time)? Does one ignore reality? Does one see reality and give up? [And you seem to imply that seeing reality means one uses excuses or gives up.] Or does one say, "I see reality, I know I'm at a disadvantage, but I'm going to do my best regardless."?

I propose the latter. And I hope that young readers will take the latter course as they go through their lives."

Apparently this was deemed offensive and dangerous to youth.

And CD pulls out the locks and delete keys.

I attempted to have a civil discussion of the topic with him in a PM. But he refused to answer rational and logical questions. Perhaps because he couldn't do so while maintaining his stance, I don't know.

What is good for the goose should be good for the gander.

So let's keep the playing field level...

I don't see anything too out of line in thsi thyread.

Younggun's son is benefitting from these bdebates and that is what the forum should be about. Chastizing people who have a different opinion is improper and lesd to us being a bunch of Bobbleheads nodding away at every point of view.
If people are being rude and using foul language them snesor it but otherwise I like the alternative view points.

Are we becominmg to "touchy feely" correct here on this site?

We are grown people and I agree with Bobble---if the debate is adult there is no problem---are we getting people who are too thin skinned and cannot give and take with the chiding ? If so I say too bad--let them learn how to handle it

I'd chime in but I'm insecure ... at least I think I am

Bee> you fishermen are all the same. I almost sent you some phots of some real pickerle but I didn't want to hurt your feelings..

quote:

by bblhd: I almost sent you some phots of some real pickerle but I didn't want to hurt your feelings..

forget the photos, send the entire fish ... we'll use it (whole) for bait!

quote:

Originally posted by Bee>:
I'd chime in but I'm insecure ... at least I think I am

You're confusing insecure with unsure...make up your mind, would you???

quote:

Originally posted by Bee>:

quote:

by bblhd: I almost sent you some phots of some real pickerle but I didn't want to hurt your feelings..

forget the photos, send the entire fish ... we'll use it (whole) for bait!

They are great on the the grill-- a bit bony but the meat is sweet and tender

Ditto that

He meant Pickerel.....which is a Walleye

Northern Pike are boney, best to use the wedge filet technique on your next granite island shorelunch, and don't forget to build a totem

Old Slugger

No disrespect but a Pickerel is not a Walleye, not even close---the Pickerel is more closely related to the Northern Pike

Incidently the Walleye is probably one of the best eating fresh water fish you can find


If you doubt me look at pictures of both fish--then tell me they are the same fish

quote:

by TR: No disrespect but a Pickerel is not a Walleye, not even close

I think I'll just sit back as this discussion unfolds eh?

Do whatever you desire BEE---you will get the correct answer if you return after OLD SLUGGER checks it out

there is a dotted line floating on Lake Erie where on the north side a pickerel is a walleye - eh?

It looks like TRhit and Oldslugger might be right on this one. Some areas of the country and Canada refer to them as pickerel even though they technically are not classified that way. From Wikipedia:

quote:

The Walleye (Sander vitreus vitreus, formerly Stizostedion vitreum vitreum) is a freshwater perciform fish native to most of Canada and to the northern United States. It is a North American close relative of the European pikeperch. The walleye is sometimes also called the yellow walleye to distinguish it from the extinct blue walleye.

In some parts of its range, the walleye is also known as the walleyed pike, yellow pike or pickerel (esp. in English-speaking Canada), although the fish is related neither to the pikes nor to the pickerels, both of which are members of the family Esocidae.

CD

Do you fish?

If you do then you know the difference

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
CD

Do you fish?

If you do then you know the difference

Yes, I love to fish as it states in my bio. The best eating fish imho is freshwater perch but there is not much sport in catching them. I have never heard of walleye referred to as pickerel yet as noted above, if everyone around you growing up calls them that then I can imagine someone would call them that as well.

CD

Interesting that you are in the same state as OLD SLUGGER and yet you both differ on the fish name


BTW perch are indeed delicious, both yellow and white


In fact any freshwater fish cooked fresh out of the lake is delicious

quote:

In fact any freshwater fish cooked fresh out of the lake is delicious

Agree. Crappie are some of my favorite fresh water fish to eat.

as CD said, "looks like TR and OS are both right"

I'll add the CD and Bee> are also correct

if ya don't use the scientific name for a fish species - you're left with the "common name" which often varies regionaly ...

I can't imagine arguing with a Canada Wildlife Mounty over the regional name your catch ... there's prolly a French name too - ie:Vichisoisse Fishisoisse (means nice little fishie)

quote:

by TR: Interesting that you are in the same state as OLD SLUGGER and yet you both differ on the fish name

much depends on which side of the dotted line ya buy supplies & fish on

BEE

Where I live we use SOLID lines to avoid this sort of confusion----I still say you are wrong

"which side of the dotted line ya buy supplies and fish on" ---in our region regardless of any line, dotted or solid, you cannot buy freshwater fish

quote:

by TR: in our region regardless of any line, dotted or solid, you cannot buy freshwater fish

try the pet store

ok, I'll rephrase it so a 5 yr old could understand, before the Mounties show up at my door

"it depends on which side of the dotted line ya buy supplies & fish on then legally go to catch your fish"

How about PM or chat room guys, lets talk baseball here.

Thanks

Canadians refer to Walleye as Pickerel...PERIOD

Just go to their ONR site, and by the way

A walleye is the largest member of the PERCH family, hence the great taste.

There is also a species of fish in the Pike family called the Chain Pickerel..........

Anyone gots millions to bet, I can use the dollars!

http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/MNR/fishing/walleye.html