"Don't Strike OUt"!

Don't strike out. I remember a game in college where my coach wished I had struck out. In game one of a doubleheader I struck out three times Before being replaced. In between games I ran to the cage and took some BP. My first two at bats of the second game I crushed liners on one hop for easy 4-6-3 double plays. The third time I lined at shot right at the first baseman on a hit and run. Another double play. The team was having a good day so the coach decided to have a little fun with me on my fourth at bat. As I grabbed a bat to go to the on deck circle he ripped the bat out of my hands. He told me I would do less damage if I went to the plate without a bat. In this at bat I drove it over the second baseman's head. I had a great day. <--- sarcasm. In my first six at bats I caused nine outs.

When I coached little kids I reminded them Mickey Mantle and Reggie Jackson were two of the biggest whiffers in the game. If they wanted proof find their stats in the Hall of Fame. Striking out some of the time isn't the end of the world. Sometimes the pitcher wins.

This might explain why I saw a kid give a high five to a kid that just struck out the other day. 

Rich

As useful to batters as shouting "Just throw strikes!" to pitchers.

Is this the same 3rd Base coach with hitting instructions between every pitch?  I have seen some 10 year olds who had eyes spinning like slot machines up there they were thinking so much.

Edit: Posted ni the wrong thread.

"Go hit a home run"...also has some damaging effects as the kid stands up there and wafts until strike 3 is called....never actually connecting.

My son has always been a big home run hitter.  One season I would say have fun before he headed out to bat (age 13?).  At the end of the season, he told me he thought that meant to hit hit a home run and it gave him too much pressure.  I really just meant to have fun.....

Now I just shut up and smile.

Years ago at 9, early in the season my kid had an at bat with couple of swings and foul tips.  He got to 2 strikes and struck out looking on what looked to be a pretty good pitch.  I give him the "what are you doing" look and he says "Dad, you told me to wait for my pitch.  That wasn't it." 

When mine reached about 10 I asked him once, what are you thinking about when you are at the plate.  He said "hitting the ball".  I asked him if he ever thought about the count or the kind of pitcher he was facing.  He said nope.

So I said sit down and let's talk about that.  Talked about hitting ahead, 2 strikes, fastball guys vs. the guys you know you can handle and can sit back on etc.  He typically hit 2nd or 3rd so I said you really have to watch the pitcher in that first inning so you can decide how you want to attack him when you get in the box.

Well all of a sudden armed with a little plan for the pitcher he was facing and more game situation awareness he went from better than average to real good and fast.  Some of the best 10 minutes I ever spent in my life doing anything.

Agreed that telling a player at any age or level "don't strike out" is foolish.

Also agreed that many elite hitters at the highest level strike out a lot.  

That said, in my admittedly anecdotal experience elite hitters at all youth levels, including HS, do not strike out very often. More specifically, they do not swing and miss nearly as often as even above-average players at their level.  Even more specifically, they very rarely swing and miss at fastballs in the strike zone.

Here's an interesting article from Hardball Times about MLB strikeout ratios and projecting major league success from college strikeout ratios.

http://www.hardballtimes.com/h...ikeouts-is-too-many/

The precursor to those three words: "take a strike"

Originally Posted by CollegeParentNoMore:

The precursor to those three words: "take a strike"

What’s the OPS of players who “take a strike” compared to those who don’t?

Well, we're waiting. 

Originally Posted by Golfman25:

Well, we're waiting. 

I might take him a while to come up with that one. I know it can be found for ML players, and I can find OBP for the players I’ve scored for, but getting that kind of minutia from a college stat database could be a little difficult.

I was hoping you would enlighten us. 

Originally Posted by Golfman25:

I was hoping you would enlighten us. 

I wasn’t the one who said to take a strike. However, I have heard that advice for a looooong time and am wondering if it’s good, bad, or indifferent advice. Many times people regurgitate things they’ve heard but don’t have any idea whether it’s worthwhile or not. I took a precursory look, but I’m loath to share the results because I’m kinda tired of hearing the sample size is too small or that my methodology isn’t any good, plus I’m unable to break out sac flies from all sacs in the database I was using without a whole lot of time and effort I’m not willing to put in, and my data is only for HS which has no relevance. I figger this time someone else can do the work to prove/disprove some belief.

I hope they can because then it would give me incentive to go that extra mile to show our coaches proof of a strategy that would help the team because lord knows we need it.

I tell my son you had "HOME RUN FEVER" after he hits one and then starts swinging for the fences. I don't say any thing during the game .During the game is when it is time to react not think.

Originally Posted by CollegeParentNoMore:

The precursor to those three words: "take a strike"

That might be great advice for ML, MiL, or even college hitters, but considering the data I have, it doesn’t look like very good advice for HS hitters.

This about player development.  "Take a strike"  at the youth/HS level has nothing to with ops etc.,

 You are teaching a hitter to be timid by instructing him to take strikes at the youth level

A youth hitter can't achieve his fullest potential if his focus is waiting for the 1st strike to be called so he can start swinging, opposed to looking for a good pitch to hit from the get go..

Plus, "you can't walk your way off the island"

Originally Posted by CollegeParentNoMore:

This a thread about player development.  "Take a strike"  at the youth/HS level has nothing to with ops etc., its all about hitter development. 

 You are teaching a hitter to be timid by instructing him to take strikes at the youth level

A youth hitter can't achieve his fullest potential if his focus is waiting for the 1st strike to be called so he can start swinging, opposed to looking for a good pitch to hit from the get go..

Plus, "you can't walk your way off the island"

It seems as though I misinterpreted your comment to mean you were advising that taking a strike was a good approach. If that’s true, I apologize.

FWIW, I’ve always agreed that teaching hitters, especially the young ones, to take a strike is a terrible philosophy.

My advice has been jump on the first fastball you see that catches the strike zone. It is probably the best pitch you'll see, with umpires extending the zone so the can get home and eat. 

Originally Posted by Golfman25:

My advice has been jump on the first fastball you see that catches the strike zone. It is probably the best pitch you'll see, with umpires extending the zone so the can get home and eat. 

A precursor to this is to note that I certainly have no more love for umpires than I do for coaches, SKs, or parents.

In my capacity, during the game I generally have occasion to talk with umpires more than anyone else, and I can honestly say that I’ve very seldom gotten the feeling that an umpire was doing anything to purposely hurry a game along. Now that may well happen in an umpire’s mind, but I honestly believe when someone gets that idea, they’ve got some personal axe to grind and seeing things that just aren’t there.

To be evenhanded, the same kind of hasty generalizations are widespread when people talk about coaches, SKs, and parents too. To be sure there are umpires, coaches, SKs, and parents who sink below the average, but that’s how you get an average. Some are great, some are terrible, but most fall somewhere in between and are doing their best to do a good job. Sadly, good intentions don’t always produce good results.

"Don't strike out"

why would anyone say that?

"Take a strike"

There are situations when this is the correct thing to do.

Originally Posted by PGStaff:

"Don't strike out"

why would anyone say that?

"Take a strike"

There are situations when this is the correct thing to do.

There are situations when doing all kinds of things can either be the correct or wrong thing to do, that’s why making general statements without clarification causes so much trouble.

Would you ever advocate telling a hitter to strike out, or to tell a hitter to take a strike in a 2 strike count? Of course not. But there are many people who need to have the times when and when not to do such things explained to them. Isn’t that how pretty much how we’ve all gained our level of baseball knowledge?

Frankly, I hope some of these umpires are extending the zone to move the game along.  At least there would be a justification for the bad zone. 

Originally Posted by Golfman25:

Frankly, I hope some of these umpires are extending the zone to move the game along.  At least there would be a justification for the bad zone. 

The best justification for umpires not calling pitches not swung at perfectly is that they shouldn’t be expected to. ML umpires are the very best in the world, and not only aren’t they perfect, they get paid around $120,000 a year plus bennies to start, get the very best training, and have loads of experience.

A HSV umpire around here might make $3K in a spring season, but he’d be doing almost 50 games from March to June. All of his training comes at his own expense and time, and the bennies he gets wouldn’t entice a family man with no other means of support to  go into umpiring as a way of bringing home the bacon.

In the end, you get what you pay for in amateur sports when it comes to officials. If you want better officiating and scoring, just lay out the $$$$$ and you will draw the better officials and scorers.

Yawn.  Anything worth doing is worth doing right.  If you can't figure out that a ball at the neck or a ball in the opposite batters box isn't a strike, then go flip burgers. 

Agreed 100%. When they "miss" that fastball in the strike zone, they tend to foul it off. They rarely swing through.

I would argue that in HS baseball if the batter coming to the plate could be seeing ball 9 or something like that taking a strike is the right thing to do. Invariably our best hitters know that and take and the bad ones will swing away.

Sure. There are other situations too. For example, your pitcher just had a high stress inning and you're coming up with 2 outs, and both of those outs were one-pitch at-bats.  Got to take a pitch or two to give your pitcher a chance to catch his breath.

I had a similar experience when SPYvSPYjr was 13. After the game I asked what he was thinking about during an AB when the pitcher threw a (not too)fast ball right down the middle. He looked at me and deadpanned, "I shoulda swung". Cracked me up!