Don't want to start an argument, but...

Wow great timing I was thinking about how much I miss being on the field with the kids on the way to work this morning. (son is HS Freshman) To your point however I have a wife that keeps reminding me to keep my mouth shut....it's difficult... but working.

To put my energy to positive use I am helping out the program in all kinds of ways. One dad is scorekeeping, I take the book and make up a stat summary for the coach. We chart pitchers and give them to the coach. (I never give him advice just give him the score sheets and thank him for his time) We are active with the booster club and are working on the fields and improving the program with help generating $$. We now have a web site and are working on raising the profile of the program in the community.

There is so many ways to help a program without sitting there tearing down a coach verbally who is doing the best he can. It is hard however when you see stuff that just makes you want to scream out….. fortunately my wife also has sharp elbows too.

I am all up for starting a support group - BCA.

I'm very suprised that a HS coach would want a father helping him out in any way on the field. I can certainly understand getting involved with the booster club and working on the fields. I can't understand a parent being active during games. IMO you are there to help your sons status as much as you are to help the coach. Let the kid fend for himself for once. If he has talent he'll play, if he doesn't you can play him during the summer.

I was asked to be a volunteer assistant for high school softball and turned it down. Then I was asked to be a volunteer assistant for middle school baseball and turned it down. I knew it would be good for my kids to have some space from being coached by me in travel. There also wouldn't be any inference my kids were getting special treatment. They earned their positions.

I was (with daughter) and still am (with son) very cautious when talking to high school coaches. I don't want to say anything that could be construed as throwing any of my kid's competition under the bus on the way to varsity. She did and he can earn varsity on his own.

I always told my kids to let their performance do the talking and I'll cheer quietly from the stands. I'm very quiet and analytical at games.

FYI - 2 dads walked up to their sons during a game last night. Coach saw it and "discussed" it with the boys in front of the team. Sons were totally embarassed. Don't think it will happen again.

I mention this, as embarassment may be the least of their worries if the dads decide to approach the coach.

resistance is not futile.

Add ... There are parents/coaches at the games always ready to second guess the coaching and throw other players under the bus. I can't sit anywhere near these guys.

There's one dad, just to make conversation at a JV game last year, I politely told him our son's would be the varsity DP combo in two seasons. I said it last year when my son was in 8th grade. He looked at me matter of factly and asked me how the hell I thought my son would start at second on varsity as a sophomore. His son was the JV shortstop.

My son beat his son (a soph) out for short on JV as a freshman. My son has been told short is his to lose between now and next year for varsity. I just smile and watch quietly while Mr. Baseball throws my son under the bus in converations behind my back.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
There are parents/coaches at the games always ready to second guess the coaching and throw other players under the bus. I can't sit anywhere near these guys.

You can join me down the RF line. I'm down there by avoiding the same ****.

quote:

To your point however I have a wife that keeps reminding me to keep my mouth shut....it's difficult... but working.

Duck tape to the mouth, in combination with sitting out behind center field, can do wonders too.
I've got my very own personalized chair out there myself titled:

" SSMom's Spot ".

Funny no one ever tries to take it away from me either. Such considerate folks,..always giving me and my mouth plenty of space. Good people they are!

P.S.
Leave the air horn at home ( something about a city ordinance-blah-blah-blah ???? ). Oh, and leave the seeds too.
FWIW: Duck taped mouth and seeds don't work too well together, especially when you have been League ordered told to sit on your hands, instead of making exasperated arm gestures in the air.

You can make a small slit in the duck tape and the seeds fit through quite easily, havn't quite figured out how to get them out, well sort of....

Seriously I am off to my sons game this morning, will be lugging my video camera, tripod, log books, and my latest toy - my stalker. My wife looked at me this morning and said you are not taking all that stuff with you are you. I had this blank stare and she said you are not sitting anywhere near me with all that stuff.....oh the joys of being an overbearing parent.

BOF, your wife is a little too sensible for my taste.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
I'll cheer quietly from the stands. I'm very quiet and analytical at games.

Sounds pretty standard for all of us baseball dads.

BOF
Why do you bring all that stuff to a game? Can't have much fun obessing over every pitch.

This is a good topic. As a coach, I wish parents would just come to the game and enjoy the game itself. We have a few players on our travel program that are going to be top draft picks. It can tough to try to find their parents as they just find a quiet place to watch the game. I have had countless players, while coaching high school, tell me how much their parents embarrass them with comments and over excited cheering during the game. All you need is a chair and a nice bag seeds.

for some dads/youth coaches it isn't easy to sit and enjoy your kids play for another. if we could step back and look,we become what we dislike.
it is very satisfying to watch our kids enjoy the sport we love without us prodding them.i thought my kids were good.i figured if they really were good others would think so too. let them go. life's to short and the road is long. stop and watch the traffic,you'll soon realize it's a marathon, not a sprint.

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Beware...cautionary tale...

The sooner players get the opportunity to deal with a variety of non parent coaches, and politics on their own, without being "saved", or created by well meaning but enabling parents...the stronger and more able they become to handle the increasingly challenges of the next levels on their own...which is inevitable.

Know a couple players whose overbearing fathers ran their lives, built their games, played the politics masterfully, worked their boys to the bone, ignored obvious signs for space...and their boys acheived some amazing things in HS....had college ball success written all over them (one DI recruited walk on, one DI schaolarship...)...

...then completely blew up at the end of their senior years...Two in rehab...one simply lost.

Careful...

44
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Over time and 4 sons...although I did coach my sons even into HS summer ball (but only when "pressed" into action)...there is nothing I enjoy more than sitting in the stands or down the line and letting someone else coach my son(s). Its good for them and its good for me. To me, it is totally relaxing and I would have it no other way.

And I have to say that I firmly believe that my sons have thoroughly enjoyed playing for someone else as well.

But what you have described has become far more commonplace in all aspects of child-raising...it isn't just baseball. Hopefully your friends find a way to free themselves of this need to be on the front line and learn to enjoy things as they are and as they should be!

This is a good thread. My husband, a very athletic guy, played s****r, ice hockey (he grew up near Canadian border) and ran track - never followed or learned much about baseball. Consequently, he could never coach our son. I grew up in baseball, so I probably know more than my husband does about the sport, but of course, I did not coach our son either. Everything our son has earned/learned/achieved has been completely on his own.

I have always kept score at his games (for myself, not the coach). Our teams have a few rules. Scorekeepers cannot cheer and no parent is allowed on the fields (ever, at any level), and no talking to the coach before, during or immediately after any game or practice. My son added a rule - we cannot talk to our son (or make any kind of comment to him) before, during, or immediately after the game until he walks off of the field. We respect all of these rules. So, we come to the games, sit in the stands, and when I am not keeping score we cheer positively for everyone. Otherwise, we keep quiet, stay off the field, and only talk to the coach on off days.

Like BOF, we are very active in the booster clubs, work on the fields on off days, and in the snack shack at games.

Everyone is happy!

Very good topic! I don’t think we will solve the problem here but it’s interesting to toss it around. I think two things factor in here. First the nature of youth sports has “evolved” to where it stirs real emotions in parents, players and coaches. Some of the emotions are good but many can be harmful. Understand too that all parents “coach” their children whether they officially do it on a field or do it at home at the kitchen table so it’s not really about just those that were LL coaches. When you mix in today’s parenting methods that justbaseball describes you have a very volatile situation.

quote:

But what you have described has become far more commonplace in all aspects of child-raising...it isn't just baseball. Hopefully your friends find a way to free themselves of this need to be on the front line and learn to enjoy things as they are and as they should be!

Something has to happen to enable youth sports and parenting to coexist. Someone or something has to keep the participants in their respective sand boxes. The person that is the most effective in doing this is the player but he has to “grow” into that capacity which leaves the situation volatile well into the high school years. O44 describes how this happens.

quote:

The sooner players get the opportunity to deal with a variety of non parent coaches, and politics on their own, without being "saved", or created by well meaning but enabling parents...the stronger and more able they become to handle the increasingly challenges of the next levels on their own...which is inevitable.

Youth coaches fuel the fire by trying to remove the parenting aspect of this scenario by taking the position that svgbaseball stated:

quote:

As a coach, I wish parents would just come to the game and enjoy the game itself.

Coaches need to understand that fans come to games to watch the games ------ parents come to games to watch their child. When you try to relegate a parent to being just a fan you miss the point and actually insult their very purpose of being there. This deep-seated desire to be a parent alone is not the problem ---- but it sure helps.

We need to educate parents on how to blend their child’s sports and their parenting. I think I personally handled it (as most of us do) but I don’t know how to help others that have a real problem with it. A code of ethics? Do we have an officer assigned to a baseball field to keep the parents in check? I don’t know.

But I’m not surprised that this is happening either. We speak out of both sides of our mouth. On one hand we say this is just a game and we should all have fun ----- then we celebrate, cry, spend, pray, manipulate, fight and scream over our son’s baseball like it was the most important thing in life. All these self preservation tactics God instilled in us to survive starvation, attacks, and the harshness of nature is being focused on the game of baseball.
Fungo

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Good post Fungo..

Some Keys:...

- Understanding, appreciating and valuing the motivations and needs of all parties involved: parents, coaches and players.

- Thinking big pictue: Realizing that big picture for all this is about building people, not just athletes.

- That the more resources, education, experience and perspective the parties have the more they are able to think big picture.

While I certainly made mistakes...In then end I found that a parents best role was big picture lessons as sports psychologist...not fixing things, but helping them see how they had the inner resouces to deal with whatever was thrown at them...baseball or othersise. Teaching them how to recognize, gather, develop, and channel their own resources to solve the issues before them.

Told mine that although it was hard logic...that competition, and talented competition for your position, and politics and coaches decisions and coaches, were not going away...never. You are going to see them forever. There are three solutions to your problems...think long term and big picture (outlast them)....learn to deal with it without letting it take you "off your game" (outthink them and great idea for parents as roel models)...and work hard in all respects to get off the bubble to where you are so good that you are less effected (outwork them)...

44
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I can't remember the last time I sat next to my husband at a game!

Seriously, though, attending games in which parents mouth off non-stop to each other, to their sons and to the umps ruins it for everyone. But to be fair to the dads...I have some out-of-control wife stories.

This was 7th grade girls hoops. Mother is stands during championship game. Daughter is at free throw line in first half. Player on opposing team makes "noises" during free throw and daughter misses shot. Player's mother LIVID that the opposing team's coach didn't address this..LIVID that OUR coach didn't say anything. She doesn't stop there, though. (This is when I moved away..) Player's mother proceeds to jingle keys, turn up ring tone on phone, cough, crinkle plastic water bottle, make her OWN BABY CRY..during the opposing team's freethrows throughout the game..until the ref caught on..and the woman (and her baby) had to be escorted from the gym.

Observer44 hit the nail on the head. Parents are responsible, if not mandated, to keep the big picture in perspective. These are just isolated games that our kids win or lose (or choke in).

Youth kids do not CHOKE-- that is parent terminolgy---the kid just did not make the play

As a summer coach, I really enjoy going to our varsity games (my son is the starting catcher).

However, I can't help but admit that I usually find myself disecting the coaches moves. I always keep my thoughts to myself, but I shake my head when I see things that don't make sense to me.

But he doesn't come up to me during summer games and tell me how to coach, so we must be even!

goMO

All we coaches think out every play, all the time every game

I even had the opprtunity to talk about it recently with the University of Hartfords Mens Baseball coach---there was a situation I saw and in private asked him he did what he did--I explained my thoughts and his answer was a simple "Gee I never thought of that but that might work"---he did it in the next game and it DID work and I got a thumbs up from him when he saw me in the stands--- it is all about the approach--coach to coach--not a criticism but a question of theory between coaches

Well, the coach on my son's team welcomes parents to call him or email him.

The last things I want to do are call and discuss playing time or why you made that move. To me he is one of the best coach’s my son has had.

He evaluated my son's play and told me the same thing that my son’s paid private teachers told me.

It was nice to hear a real non marketed view of my son's ability. My son is a young 13 year old who made the team because of his mechanical ability as a hitter and catcher. What he lacks is size, and I have heard that from college recruiter that gave him lessons who said one day he will grow into his body talent. If he decides to stay with it he can go as far as he wants.

Well my son may not start, I am under no illusions that he can hit better than a person who has been lifting and maturity level is two year in front of my boys.

I have fought board members and daddy ball during little league and the life lesson my son and I took away from it was, be as good as you can and it clears all the politics out of the way, they want you on all-stars.

Right now I just watch the kids that been daddy balled along or who’s son were board members and shake my head when I see them grinding there teeth in the stands. I sit back and watch them self destruct on there own. In a sadistic way it’s kind of amusing. The man up stair wants us all to show love to our fellow neighbor, which makes me think twice about evil thoughts. I just go on with my life.

Do the right thing,

drill