Question -- our coach says as far as stats are concerned, "an RBI is not
awarded when a batter hits into a DP and a run scores". I have never heard this... is this true?
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I don't believe that's correct.
What does the coach base that on?
In my book it's an RBI.
But i'm not sure?
What does the coach base that on?
In my book it's an RBI.
But i'm not sure?
OBR
"10.04 (b) Do not credit a run batted in when the batter grounds into a force double play or a reverse force double play."
"10.04 (b) Do not credit a run batted in when the batter grounds into a force double play or a reverse force double play."
The only thing I could think of is did the fielder have a chance to get the runner at the plate, are did he choose to go for the DP. Which would be considered a Fielder's Choice.
Not sure?
Not sure?
Thanks Texan,
Maybe I should read a rule book?
Maybe I should read a rule book?
Thank you very much Texan... I obviously learned something new today!
Not sure exactly what the logic was, but there it is...
I have another weird rule for you........If a catcher doesn't attempt to throw out a runner stealing second with a runner on third, the runner is not awarded a stolen base. It's called catcher's indifference or something like that. Now that's a weird one!! I wonder how many stolen bases in HS are awarded when they shouldn't be!! Interesting.
A usual rule of thumb is anytime you create more outs and runs knocked in, you do not get credit for an RBI.
In the DP case, the hitter created two outs and knocked in only 1 run. Therefore, no RBI.
In the DP case, the hitter created two outs and knocked in only 1 run. Therefore, no RBI.
quote:A usual rule of thumb is anytime you create more outs and runs knocked in, you do not get credit for an RBI.
In the DP case, the hitter created two outs and knocked in only 1 run. Therefore, no RBI.
What if...bases loaded and there was a speedy runner on 2nd base and he came around to score on the DP, without any errors on the play. 2 runs score. Does the hitter then get 2 RBI?
Good Day All,
This rule has been in place for as long as i can remember, and most likely long before me...lol
If you have ever been an offical scorer you would know this rule very well. Many people try to explain the reasons for it, but so far as I am aware, it falls under the category of "because its the rule".
The rule book clearly defines the situations in which the batter is credited with an RBI, but it makes no atept to explain the reasons for them.
This rule has been in place for as long as i can remember, and most likely long before me...lol
If you have ever been an offical scorer you would know this rule very well. Many people try to explain the reasons for it, but so far as I am aware, it falls under the category of "because its the rule".
The rule book clearly defines the situations in which the batter is credited with an RBI, but it makes no atept to explain the reasons for them.
Old Pitcher,
Your right, its called defensive indifference.
(g) No stolen base shall be scored when a runner advances solely because of the defensive team's indifference to his advance. Score as a fielder's choice
From the Stolen bases paragraph of section 10 (The Official Scorer) of the rule book.
Your right, its called defensive indifference.
(g) No stolen base shall be scored when a runner advances solely because of the defensive team's indifference to his advance. Score as a fielder's choice
From the Stolen bases paragraph of section 10 (The Official Scorer) of the rule book.
Old Pitcher,
(b) Do not credit a run batted in when the batter grounds into a force double play or a reverse force double play.
Fast runner on second, slow runner on third...does not matter...No RBI
(b) Do not credit a run batted in when the batter grounds into a force double play or a reverse force double play.
Fast runner on second, slow runner on third...does not matter...No RBI
I would also add from a "logical" perspective, the speedy runner scored due to his speed not really due to the actions of the batter.
I would also agree that good scorers know the "defensive indifference" rule. From my experience, most HS scorers know this. But I was amazed pre-HS how many scorers didn't know that rule or quite frankly just chose to ignore it (i.e. credited the runner with an SB even though they know it was "DI".
I would also agree that good scorers know the "defensive indifference" rule. From my experience, most HS scorers know this. But I was amazed pre-HS how many scorers didn't know that rule or quite frankly just chose to ignore it (i.e. credited the runner with an SB even though they know it was "DI".
quote:Originally posted by NHFundamentalsDad:
Old Pitcher,
Your right, its called defensive indifference.
(g) No stolen base shall be scored when a runner advances solely because of the defensive team's indifference to his advance. Score as a fielder's choice
From the Stolen bases paragraph of section 10 (The Official Scorer) of the rule book.
The key word here is "indifference". If a runner gets a great jump and the catcher does not throw, the official scorer will give the runner a stolen base. The catcher did not show indifference on the play......he just realized he had no shot to get the runner.
Okay, how about this.
Runner on 2nd, 1 out. Fly ball to deep center. CF catches ball and runner tags. CF was not in a hurry to throw ball in and due to speed of runner at 2nd he scores.
Is this scored as a Sac Fly, RBI?
Runner on 2nd, 1 out. Fly ball to deep center. CF catches ball and runner tags. CF was not in a hurry to throw ball in and due to speed of runner at 2nd he scores.
Is this scored as a Sac Fly, RBI?
Ram,
that should be scored a fly out, with an error on CF throw allowing the run to score
that should be scored a fly out, with an error on CF throw allowing the run to score
How about on first and third situation where the defense runs a play where the throw is cut off by the second baseman well in front of the bag, hoping to fool the 3rd base runner to advance?
Is that a fielders choice too?
Is that a fielders choice too?
Chairman,
You cannot give the CF an error because he was slow to throw ball back in. If he made a good throw to his cut-off man, there is no error.
"ERRORS
10.13
An error shall be charged for each misplay (fumble, muff or wild throw) which prolongs the time at bat of a batter or which prolongs the life of a runner, or which permits a runner to advance one or more bases. NOTE (1) Slow handling of the ball which does not involve mechanical misplay shall not be construed as an error."
It would be the same as a batter taking second base on a throw to the plate after hitting a single. You dont give any player an error to account for him taking second base. He takes the base "on the throw".
"FIELDER'S CHOICE is the act of a fielder who handles a fair grounder and, instead of throwing to first base to put out the batter runner, throws to another base in an attempt to put out a preceding runner. The term is also used by scorers (a) to account for the advance of the batter runner who takes one or more extra bases when the fielder who handles his safe hit attempts to put out a preceding runner; (b) to account for the advance of a runner (other than by stolen base or error) while a fielder is attempting to put out another runner; and (c) to account for the advance of a runner made solely because of the defensive team's indifference (undefended steal)."
"RUNS BATTED IN
10.04
(d) Scorer's judgment must determine whether a run batted in shall be credited for a run which scores when a fielder holds the ball, or throws to a wrong base. Ordinarily, if the runner keeps going, credit a run batted in; if the runner stops and takes off again when he notices the misplay, credit the run as scored on a fielder's choice."
You cannot give the CF an error because he was slow to throw ball back in. If he made a good throw to his cut-off man, there is no error.
"ERRORS
10.13
An error shall be charged for each misplay (fumble, muff or wild throw) which prolongs the time at bat of a batter or which prolongs the life of a runner, or which permits a runner to advance one or more bases. NOTE (1) Slow handling of the ball which does not involve mechanical misplay shall not be construed as an error."
It would be the same as a batter taking second base on a throw to the plate after hitting a single. You dont give any player an error to account for him taking second base. He takes the base "on the throw".
"FIELDER'S CHOICE is the act of a fielder who handles a fair grounder and, instead of throwing to first base to put out the batter runner, throws to another base in an attempt to put out a preceding runner. The term is also used by scorers (a) to account for the advance of the batter runner who takes one or more extra bases when the fielder who handles his safe hit attempts to put out a preceding runner; (b) to account for the advance of a runner (other than by stolen base or error) while a fielder is attempting to put out another runner; and (c) to account for the advance of a runner made solely because of the defensive team's indifference (undefended steal)."
"RUNS BATTED IN
10.04
(d) Scorer's judgment must determine whether a run batted in shall be credited for a run which scores when a fielder holds the ball, or throws to a wrong base. Ordinarily, if the runner keeps going, credit a run batted in; if the runner stops and takes off again when he notices the misplay, credit the run as scored on a fielder's choice."
Rob K,
Yes, It the runner gets second base as the result of a FC.
"(b) to account for the advance of a runner (other than by stolen base or error) while a fielder is attempting to put out another runner;"
The purpose of that play is to attempt to get the runner at third.
Yes, It the runner gets second base as the result of a FC.
"(b) to account for the advance of a runner (other than by stolen base or error) while a fielder is attempting to put out another runner;"
The purpose of that play is to attempt to get the runner at third.
To all the Moms out there
HAVE A GREAT MOTHER'S DAY!!!!
HAVE A GREAT MOTHER'S DAY!!!!
quote:Originally posted by Old Pitcher:quote:
What if...bases loaded and there was a speedy runner on 2nd base and he came around to score on the DP, without any errors on the play. 2 runs score. Does the hitter then get 2 RBI?
I guarantee you that in no way will a runner score from second on a double play, unless you have a shot all the way to the wall, and the outfielder has no arm, that is about the only case, but on an infield DP, there is no runner fast enough to do that with there being no errors.
