Double standard in singling out Bonds with asterisks
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/zillgitt/2006-...zillgitt-bonds_x.htm
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No truer words could have been written...which is what I have been pointing out here for some time about the inequities of baseball treatment of "certain" players.
It goes back to the period when baseball was segregated and hasn't stopped even till this day. It's an attitude that has no place in any competitive sport. These attitudes should be left outside the playing fileds and outside of the club houses, but aren't because baseball was taking over early in it's development by "negative" forces.
To this day they still "control" who gets to play and who is "in and who is "out".
Being a hypocrite about it won't ever solve it. What needs to be done is acknowledge that it still exist and open the game up to all youngsters so that when you watch the CWS you won't be asking where are all the minority players.
It goes back to the period when baseball was segregated and hasn't stopped even till this day. It's an attitude that has no place in any competitive sport. These attitudes should be left outside the playing fileds and outside of the club houses, but aren't because baseball was taking over early in it's development by "negative" forces.
To this day they still "control" who gets to play and who is "in and who is "out".
Being a hypocrite about it won't ever solve it. What needs to be done is acknowledge that it still exist and open the game up to all youngsters so that when you watch the CWS you won't be asking where are all the minority players.
I think this article is a very good article in that it brings to light that Bonds IS being singled out. He’s being singled out because he has done great thing with his baseball bat. He’s being singled out because he possesses great athletic ability. He’s NOT being singled out because he used steroids. He’s not being singled out because he’s black as Ramrod would attempt to make us believe. The reason Barry Bonds is front and center is because of the great things he’s done, not the bad things he’s done or the bad attitude he has. People aren’t inducted into the hall of fame simply because they cheat, lie, steal or are jerks. So, should Barry Bonds have and asterisk beside his name because he cheated? OF course not! Everybody and his brother knows he cheated. I think Barry Bonds should be prosecuted for his illegal activity and on his rap sheet he should have and asterisk beside his name that explains he is one of the greatest hitters of all time. If what he did was legal then we need to move on and talk about how Dwight Gooden is being singled out.
RR
This has nothing to do with ethnic backgrounds
It HAS to do with the fact that the press and Bonds have never gotten along, especially in his home towns for baseball--he has always been a target even before the steroids issue
This has nothing to do with ethnic backgrounds
It HAS to do with the fact that the press and Bonds have never gotten along, especially in his home towns for baseball--he has always been a target even before the steroids issue
sorry TR, that has absolutely nothing to do with, Barry is getting attention because he was approaching the all time home run record. Bonds did not get much press until he set the single season records for home runs. Which was the whole reason Bonds did steriods the first place. Not enough press 
Sorry Andy May
you are off base again---what record--714 isnt a record---
you are off base again---what record--714 isnt a record---
Hank Aaron holds the all time HR record 755 not Babe Ruth 714, you can look it up Tom Rizzi. Barry still has a way to go for that one.
So when is OJ coming to dinner? You should invite Jose Canseco and Barry Bonds too.
So when is OJ coming to dinner? You should invite Jose Canseco and Barry Bonds too.
ANDY
Dont be such a fool-- I know what the record is--- the press and the public made a big thing of his passing the 714 number WHICH IS NOT A RECORD--- you really think Bonds will get to the 755 number ?---
Dont be such a fool-- I know what the record is--- the press and the public made a big thing of his passing the 714 number WHICH IS NOT A RECORD--- you really think Bonds will get to the 755 number ?---
you never know with you, you defend bonds steriod use and talk about having OJ for dinner.
no I dont think Bonds will or should break Aarons record. he cheated and so did a ton of MLB players . If MLB had legit commish this stuff never would have happened.
no I dont think Bonds will or should break Aarons record. he cheated and so did a ton of MLB players . If MLB had legit commish this stuff never would have happened.
People are always going to single out Bonds when talking about steroid using for several reasons. He is one of the best players int he history of the game, the fact that he's been such a jerk his whole career, and how big he's gotten over the years including the size of his head. It has nothing to do with segregation. If Bonds would have been cheating but only finished his career with 300 HR's no one would make a big deal about it. That's just how it is. But when you cheat and get to that level there's always going to be a problem.
Ramrod's post is a reminder to me that some folks will see an issue where there is none, almost every single time. It isn't about race, color, or creed, it's about baseball turning its head while players of all colors tried to enhance their performances with drugs, while the turnstiles whirred and the dollars rolled in. Deplorable but true.
Race has nothing to do with it at all. And when I watch the CWS, I won't wonder where the black athletes are, any more than when I watch the NCAA Basketball Final Four, I don't wonder where the white kids are.
How sad to seemingly have racial glasses on through whch everything must be viewed. It is not always about race.
Race has nothing to do with it at all. And when I watch the CWS, I won't wonder where the black athletes are, any more than when I watch the NCAA Basketball Final Four, I don't wonder where the white kids are.
How sad to seemingly have racial glasses on through whch everything must be viewed. It is not always about race.
Hokie,
IMO - What is very reassuring to me is that for every post like Ramrod's - there are ten posts that acknowledge the truth.
The truth is that if you are a cheater - and a liar - and you get caught - you can expect to be treated accordingly.
Doesnt make a difference what color you are - what your religion is - or what your ethnic background is.
From McGwire - to Sosa - to Palmeiro - to Bonds - to Giambi - and to all those in between. If you want to cheat - and get caught - you shouldnt whine about it when the court of public opinion crushes you into dust.
The saddest thing to me - is that all of these guys may have been crucufied in the press the last few years - and they certainly helped send out the wrong message to thousands of young athletes - but they still got filthy rich.
That - IMO - is funny in a weird sort of way.
IMO - What is very reassuring to me is that for every post like Ramrod's - there are ten posts that acknowledge the truth.
The truth is that if you are a cheater - and a liar - and you get caught - you can expect to be treated accordingly.
Doesnt make a difference what color you are - what your religion is - or what your ethnic background is.
From McGwire - to Sosa - to Palmeiro - to Bonds - to Giambi - and to all those in between. If you want to cheat - and get caught - you shouldnt whine about it when the court of public opinion crushes you into dust.
The saddest thing to me - is that all of these guys may have been crucufied in the press the last few years - and they certainly helped send out the wrong message to thousands of young athletes - but they still got filthy rich.
That - IMO - is funny in a weird sort of way.
Baseball is a game focused on statistics and steeped in history. such issues are a focus of the game, its intrigue, its marketing etc.
Any time a record of any sorts is challenged in baseball it is scrutinized, the different eras compared and the asterisks broken out. Maris was put under the microscope, Aaron too. Questions about how many games it took, the level of play etc. etc. all come into play.
bonds would have received such scrutiny in any event, however it is magnified as the HR mark is probably the most cherised, bonds has a history of horrible relations with fans, media, fellow players, teammates etc. He has been and purposely so an island unto himself and now wants everyone to magically love him or at least be supportive of his efforts. the steroid issue has only magnified the situation.
Race and other factors, don't see it. Maris was white. bonds is just a jerk, clouded in alot of suspicion and what appears to be alot of facts, including his ADMISSION to taking steroids, just not knowingly. And in this "juice" controversy, other than Giambi (who sort of coped to it) bonds is the only active "suspect" and the only one with (single season) record and approaching career home run record, all in a cloud of steroid dust.
So is he presently the guy in the spotlight being singled out- yes. But there is no double standard involved. Anyone in his position would be under scrutiny, barry being who he is and what he's suspected of just has a brighter light focused on him.
Any time a record of any sorts is challenged in baseball it is scrutinized, the different eras compared and the asterisks broken out. Maris was put under the microscope, Aaron too. Questions about how many games it took, the level of play etc. etc. all come into play.
bonds would have received such scrutiny in any event, however it is magnified as the HR mark is probably the most cherised, bonds has a history of horrible relations with fans, media, fellow players, teammates etc. He has been and purposely so an island unto himself and now wants everyone to magically love him or at least be supportive of his efforts. the steroid issue has only magnified the situation.
Race and other factors, don't see it. Maris was white. bonds is just a jerk, clouded in alot of suspicion and what appears to be alot of facts, including his ADMISSION to taking steroids, just not knowingly. And in this "juice" controversy, other than Giambi (who sort of coped to it) bonds is the only active "suspect" and the only one with (single season) record and approaching career home run record, all in a cloud of steroid dust.
So is he presently the guy in the spotlight being singled out- yes. But there is no double standard involved. Anyone in his position would be under scrutiny, barry being who he is and what he's suspected of just has a brighter light focused on him.
RR,,
Will you please grow up just a little bit.
Do me and everyone else here a favor, go look at a few college rosters. I will even give you a simple example. Check the University of Maine At Orono. It about as far off the beaten path as you can get. They have a lot of minorities on thier roster.
Trying being part of the solution just once instead of the problem.
Will you please grow up just a little bit.
Do me and everyone else here a favor, go look at a few college rosters. I will even give you a simple example. Check the University of Maine At Orono. It about as far off the beaten path as you can get. They have a lot of minorities on thier roster.
Trying being part of the solution just once instead of the problem.
I have posted my feeling here about the Bonds/Steriods issue many times.
I posted this in a different thread abou this same subject, but perphaps it it bears repeating
"Do you remember Ben Johnson?
If he had access to a BALCO in his day, he would have been allowed to keep his Olympic gold medal and world record. He cheated and got caught by a test.
Bonds cheated and KNEW he could not be caught by the tests because of the work done by BALCO.
Here is a quote from Rowdy Gaines talking about Shirley Babashoff, who was screwed out of medals in multiple Olympic games by the juiced-up East German women swimmers.....
"I was only 17 when Shirley swam in Montreal," Gaines said, "so I guess I was one of those swimmers who thought she shouldn't be complaining about what was happening with the East Germans, that she should just accept it. I feel really guilty now for even thinking that. As the years went on, I said to myself, 'Oh my gosh, she was so right.' "
It was only after the fall of the Berlin Wall that the documented evidence of state-sponsored steriod-use in atheletes was going on.
The athletes knew at the time something was up though as did anyone who saw these "women". They did not need test results to know that performances were were being enhanced. Women who were only average swimmers their entire career were suddenly setting world records.
The Bonds situation is no different!
He is cheating his way to these records. If some people need to wait until the "Wall" falls in this case too, well, that is their issue.
There is documented evidence from the BALCO labs of Bonds cycles and tests, but because it was leaked testimony & published in a book, some decide it does not count.
Ask those Olympic athletes who worked their butts off only to lose to cheaters if they think it's unfair to speak up to the obvious.
Barry's cranium is the same evidence as the physiques of those East German swimmers.
"
Barry Bonds is not the first to be "singled out" in sports history as a cheater by using performance enhancers.
Maybe if you look back at others worked hard and did everything the right way only to lose out to other cheaters, perhaps you will come to understand why many of us feel this way and will continue be vocal about it.
I posted this in a different thread abou this same subject, but perphaps it it bears repeating
"Do you remember Ben Johnson?
If he had access to a BALCO in his day, he would have been allowed to keep his Olympic gold medal and world record. He cheated and got caught by a test.
Bonds cheated and KNEW he could not be caught by the tests because of the work done by BALCO.
Here is a quote from Rowdy Gaines talking about Shirley Babashoff, who was screwed out of medals in multiple Olympic games by the juiced-up East German women swimmers.....
"I was only 17 when Shirley swam in Montreal," Gaines said, "so I guess I was one of those swimmers who thought she shouldn't be complaining about what was happening with the East Germans, that she should just accept it. I feel really guilty now for even thinking that. As the years went on, I said to myself, 'Oh my gosh, she was so right.' "
It was only after the fall of the Berlin Wall that the documented evidence of state-sponsored steriod-use in atheletes was going on.
The athletes knew at the time something was up though as did anyone who saw these "women". They did not need test results to know that performances were were being enhanced. Women who were only average swimmers their entire career were suddenly setting world records.
The Bonds situation is no different!
He is cheating his way to these records. If some people need to wait until the "Wall" falls in this case too, well, that is their issue.
There is documented evidence from the BALCO labs of Bonds cycles and tests, but because it was leaked testimony & published in a book, some decide it does not count.
Ask those Olympic athletes who worked their butts off only to lose to cheaters if they think it's unfair to speak up to the obvious.
Barry's cranium is the same evidence as the physiques of those East German swimmers.
"
Barry Bonds is not the first to be "singled out" in sports history as a cheater by using performance enhancers.
Maybe if you look back at others worked hard and did everything the right way only to lose out to other cheaters, perhaps you will come to understand why many of us feel this way and will continue be vocal about it.
quote:Originally posted by nd943:
People are always going to single out Bonds when talking about steroid using for several reasons. He is one of the best players int he history of the game,
One of the best 'hitters' in the game. Many would argue he was an average defensive player. I think to be one of the best 'players' in the game he would have to have been an 'outstanding' outfielder. jmo
What if McGuire, Sosa, Bonds, and whom ever.
Just Broke the Record's by 1 or 2 HR,
62 or 63 HR,
Then Bond's Maybe 64 HR.
Would we have Noticed as much???
It's that they Broke and then Destroyed the Record all together.
And it came down to Greed, Glutiny, Envy, and Ego.
Let's learn from there mistake's.
All record's/win's achieved by cheating is a Hollow victory.
If they can live with knowing that they achieved Greatness from Cheating, Well so be it.
It's just not how I was taught about Sportsmanship.
Bond's Should not be singled out.
No more then the MLB should get off the Hook.
There's enough Blame to go around.
Let's move forward, alway's forward.
Just Broke the Record's by 1 or 2 HR,
62 or 63 HR,
Then Bond's Maybe 64 HR.
Would we have Noticed as much???
It's that they Broke and then Destroyed the Record all together.
And it came down to Greed, Glutiny, Envy, and Ego.
Let's learn from there mistake's.
All record's/win's achieved by cheating is a Hollow victory.
If they can live with knowing that they achieved Greatness from Cheating, Well so be it.
It's just not how I was taught about Sportsmanship.
Bond's Should not be singled out.
No more then the MLB should get off the Hook.
There's enough Blame to go around.
Let's move forward, alway's forward.