Just to clarify, on a dropped 3rd strike the batter has the right to go to 1B. If the base is occupied he cannot is the way I understand it, however if that guy on 1B takes off on a steal is it still considered an occupied base?
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Yes. The question of whether or not the base is occupied is determined as of the start of the pitch.
Also, even if the base is occupied, the batter can run if his out would be the 3d out. This creates a force not only at first, but at 2nd and potentially other bases. For example, if the bases were loaded, the catcher could simply pick up the ball and step on home plate to end the inning.
Also, even if the base is occupied, the batter can run if his out would be the 3d out. This creates a force not only at first, but at 2nd and potentially other bases. For example, if the bases were loaded, the catcher could simply pick up the ball and step on home plate to end the inning.
Thx Midlo Dad, so let me make sure I understand. If the base is unoccupied period, (and there were runners on 2B and 3B)they would run no matter what. If 1B in conjuction with any other base IS occupied they can still run but only if there are already 2 outs. All correct?
The runners can advance at their own risk, irrespective of the situation. On a dropped third strike, the ball is loose and you may well see runners trying to advance, even if they weren't stealing on the pitch in the first place.
If first base is unoccupied, the batter CAN run, but does not have to. (But why wouldn't he?) If first is unoccupied but there were runners at 2nd and 3rd, there is no force, but the runners can move up if they see an opportunity, whether on the pitch getting away, or if the throw to first is off the mark (or if the catcher simply neglects the runners while throwing to first). A good base runner in this situation will try to draw the catcher's attention, without going so far as to put himself at risk; this will help the batter's chances of being safe at 1st and thus also saving the out.
That's the rule when 1st was open at the time of the pitch. If 1st was occupied, then the batter is out upon the strike unless that out would be the third out. If so, he can go to first, but there's a force at first, at second, and possibly also at 3d and home if there were other runners (i.e., no open bases). Note that although there is a force play, there is no risk of a double play, because this only occurs when there were already 2 outs.
If first base is unoccupied, the batter CAN run, but does not have to. (But why wouldn't he?) If first is unoccupied but there were runners at 2nd and 3rd, there is no force, but the runners can move up if they see an opportunity, whether on the pitch getting away, or if the throw to first is off the mark (or if the catcher simply neglects the runners while throwing to first). A good base runner in this situation will try to draw the catcher's attention, without going so far as to put himself at risk; this will help the batter's chances of being safe at 1st and thus also saving the out.
That's the rule when 1st was open at the time of the pitch. If 1st was occupied, then the batter is out upon the strike unless that out would be the third out. If so, he can go to first, but there's a force at first, at second, and possibly also at 3d and home if there were other runners (i.e., no open bases). Note that although there is a force play, there is no risk of a double play, because this only occurs when there were already 2 outs.
just as an FYI, I tell my 15yr olds to always run to first, even if its occupied with less than 2 out. this allows our other runners to move up, and we may get a bad throw to first by a poor catcher.
quote:Originally posted by goMO:
just as an FYI, I tell my 15yr olds to always run to first, even if its occupied with less than 2 out. this allows our other runners to move up, and we may get a bad throw to first by a poor catcher.
Sounds to me like you are asking to have a double play turned on you. A good catcher will know the rule and he will ignore your decoy runner advancing to first base (because he knows that the batter is already out) and he will pick the ball up and throw to a base other than first so that he can get one of your other runners out too. 15 is old enough that they should all know this rule, it is my opinion that you are doing your players a disservice by teaching them to do this.
I agree but there is nothing wrong with running on 3rd strike dropped ball. You might catch someone not tuned in. part of the mental game.
fvb10 - I totally understand your point. I would imagine that the first time this doesn't work, we will discontinue it. It also makes our players aware of this when we're on defense and we won't fall for it.
thanks!
thanks!