Dropped ball on tag?

No.

Hoping for a rule to use in my argument (I protested the game)...any help?? I don't own an NFHS rule book - which is my mistake.

I know that in pro rules, the fielder must voluntarily and intentionally release the ball on a catch, or otherwise it is not a catch. Collisions at the plate (in pro ball again) are done for the express purpose of dislodging the ball.... I don't recall any rule which states there is an umpire's judgement on how long a fielder possesses the ball, but if that's true I can't protest a judgement call.

My argument is that it is NOT a judgement call.

Any help??

I would say (if it happened as you explain it) the call was kicked, we should Pause, Read and React. I do not believe you have a protest...umpire judgement.

quote:

Originally posted by CoachJ28:

Unless I’m wrong, NFHS sends out free rule books to all HS coaches, plus I believe that you have access to the on-line rules as well.

As the team’s scorekeeper, every year the HVC gives me a brandy new copy to carry with me to games, so there’s always one available. Check with your AD and NFHS its shouldn't be a big deal to get one.

For a couple of years, the NFHS sold electronic copies of the rules and casebook, which are easy to cut and paste from. From the 2009 rules 8-4-2h:
(runner is out when he) is touched by a live ball securely held by a fielder or is touched by a fielder’s glove or hand with the live ball held therein, while the runner is not touching his base.
......
2. The ball is not securely held if it is dropped or juggled after the runner is touched.

And from 2-24-4 A tag out is the put out of a runner, including the batter-runner, who is not in contact with his base when touched with a live ball, or with the glove or hand when the live ball is held securely therein by a fielder. The ball is not considered as having been securely held if it is juggled or dropped after the touching, unless the runner deliberately knocks the ball from the hand of the fielder (8-4-2h2).
How long does he have to hold the ball, or try to do something else with it? It isn't specified, and it is umpire judgement (although your description sounds more like a blown call, perhaps from misunderstanding the rule, in which case a protest may be justified). There was a situation last year in MLB, in which a runner was tagged, after which the fielder fell and the ball came loose as he hit the ground. IIRC, this was called an out.

Please note that the criterion for a catch--as opposed to a tag of a runner--is more stringent. From 2-9-1: The catch of a fly ball by a fielder is not completed until the continuing action of the catch is completed. . This section goes on to give examples, and some involve a no catch even when the ball is dropped a second or two after the apparent catch.

Conversely, if a runner can be put out by tagging a base, it is only necessary for the fielder to "hold" the ball while tagging the base. "Securely" is not specified in the rule. For example, if a fielder runs to tag a base while holding the ball, and stumbles after touching the base, causing him to drop the ball, nearly all umpires will call the out.

Practically speaking, at all levels of baseball, many umpires will require the most demonstrated control of the ball for a catch, somewhat less for the tag of a runner, and less yet for the tag of a base. But in all cases, if the ball is immediately on the ground, it shouldn't be ruled a catch or tag.

I look for control of the ball just after the tag is made. If the fielder is diving toward the fielder, makes the tag, then hits the ground before losing control of the ball, then he showed control during the tag. In other words, the ground caused the drop, not the tag itself.

That said, if the ball was knocked out during the tag attempt, then the runner is safe. That's how the plays at the plate work -- if the catcher drops the ball during the collision, he didn't maintain control of the ball.

quote:

Originally posted by yawetag:
I look for control of the ball just after the tag is made. If the fielder is diving toward the fielder, makes the tag, then hits the ground before losing control of the ball, then he showed control during the tag. In other words, the ground caused the drop, not the tag itself.

No tag in NCAA (and perhaps others). The fielder needs to demonstrate control during and after the tag.

If you have an Iphone there is an app for the Fed rulebook and maybe the casebook. I think it is around six bucks. Droid is supposed to be coming. They had basketball for Droid.

quote:

Originally posted by dash_riprock:
No tag in NCAA (and perhaps others). The fielder needs to demonstrate control during and after the tag.

The debate is how long after the tag.

quote:

Originally posted by yawetag:

quote:

Originally posted by dash_riprock:
No tag in NCAA (and perhaps others). The fielder needs to demonstrate control during and after the tag.

The debate is how long after the tag.

At the January NCAA clinic, the showed the Varitek play as an example of a "no tag." A voluntary release is proof of control but not always necessary. Sometimes there is no release associated with the play. In my opinion, secure possession is not a function of time, it is a function of control of the ball and the body. Coming to a stop (standing or on the ground), or a controlled gait without dropping the ball would be good enough for me. It's easier to see than write (obviously).

quote:

Originally posted by Michael S. Taylor:
If you have an Iphone there is an app for the Fed rulebook and maybe the casebook. I think it is around six bucks. Droid is supposed to be coming. They had basketball for Droid.

Please do tell the name of this app!!

Iphone app