Dropping the hands

?

I hear ya hitting101

Okay, let me think what would be the best way to say this without stirring the kettle too much.

When you drop your hands, you lose valuable nano-seconds. The hands have to eventually go back up to c-o-c-k-e-d position in the load. Why use more time in a wasted movement to accomplish same goal?
As usual, just my .02 peace Shep

It's a timing thing Shep.
What was the pitch? I bet it was a breaking ball.
So Nano second's don't matter?
But on a fast ball?
Of coarse I don't think it matter's one way are another to Barry Bond's.
Quickest bat in baseball.
EH

I agree with theEH, not a bad thing if it is a timing mechanism to wait on a slower pitch, but a waste of time when you need to catch up to the fastball.

Maybe it's a built-in reminder that the hands must move UP and back during the stride? So by starting by DROPPING them, they'll more naturally be reminded to get 'em back?

If you're dropping your hands during the launch of your SWING, you're in trouble. But I don't see how the direction of the hands moving BEFORE the stride foot gets down would have any effect on getting around on the fastball?

A young man I coached, Milton Cuyler, who could run with the best of them, had this hitch of dropping his hands. He made it to the big leagues and bounced around in show many years. Great defensive outfielder even though he had a below average arm. He was possibly the best defensive CF ever as far as running down the balls hit anywhere close to him. He could never get rid of that hitch of lowering his hands too much and found himself swinging late on FBs. I can give you other examples but won't. Toward the end of Milt's career, I spent some time with him and he told me he had just been unable to rid himself of the hitch. He had learned this at a very young age in sandlots and LL. Muscle memory from what he did as a youngster that could not be changed. He was 15 yrs old when I coached him and could run like the wind. Possibly the fastest HS player in the country the year he was drafted and signed by Detroit Tigers. I worked with him on the hitch but his body was full of fast twitch muscle fibers. I believed this hitch was developed because his body actions were so fast that he compensated at the lower levels in what EH has described as timing to slow down his loading process. When I tried to help Milt change at the Senior League Little League baseball level, it was too late because of the trained hitching action in his swing prior to playing for my team. We tried several drills that would help temporarily, but in the game, he would go back to the natural habitat he had formed through imperfect practice for so many years. He was still successful at HS level but eventually, as Coach May has pointed out, the higher levels proved to be too much for the hitch he had developed. Milton is a fine person with a beautiful family that I am very proud of and this true-life story is in no way meant to be negative toward a fine christian man like my brother, Milt. Just trying to help others here that may think it's alright to hitch bat because of success at the lower levels. Catch it early and the hitch can be corrected. If you wait too long, it may be too late. peace, Shep

The guys you mention, Bonds, Ortiz, Sosa, (and many other good hitters) do it as part of their loading. It is a more complicated loading of the shoulders / scaps than most use but it allows them to generate more power. If you can learn to time it correctly, and your swing mechanics are good, you should have no problem catching up to a good fastball.

Do some research on stretch-reflex. In a nutshell, if you can transition from load to unload quickly, your muscles will be able to generate more power than if you load, pause, then unload.

What you are describing is typically called a hitch. It has it benefits (can be used to increase power) and drawbacks (harder to time).

yea I was thinking of learning it but ill talk to my hitting coach. I just wanted to know the positives and negatives. and i dont think youd be that much slower on the fastball if you time it correctly. I dunno if i agree with the shepster. and i dont know if its wasted energy as u say shep because in physics class i learnt that if you put work in the work has to go somewhere.thanks guys

quote:

Originally posted by hitting101:
yea I was thinking of learning it but ill talk to my hitting coach. I just wanted to know the positives and negatives. and i dont think youd be that much slower on the fastball if you time it correctly. I dunno if i agree with the shepster. and i dont know if its wasted energy as u say shep because in physics class i learnt that if you put work in the work has to go somewhere.thanks guys

You have to be careful to mix the words energy and work up Hitting101. The definition of work is: exertion or effort directed to produce or accomplish something. For example, if you put every ounce of energy into pushing a wall over, and it doesn't move, you have used all of your energy but accomplished NO work. Just thought that would help you in class.

As far as on the field, you can waste a lot of energy. IMO, any movement that you perform that doesn't speed up your bat or help you put the bat on the ball is a wasted movement with wasted energy.

Energy is not lost it is transformed.
He may not of pushed the wall over.
But he did heat up quite nicely.
And gained strength?

If you try to control every movement.
Meaning trying to control your wasted movement.
Your losing your focus on hitting the Ball?

Anything that help's your timing and clear's your mind.
Is OK with ME.
EH

It's a loading pattern which also generates bat head momentum into launch. Bonds works his hands down-in-up.

Sandman and others got that one right. It is a mechanism to ALTERNATELY LOAD THE HIPS AND THEN THE SHOULDERS LATER IN THE SEQUENCE


Bonds drops the box and tips the bat to SS.

At that point he is shifting his center of gravity and coiling his hip back

You cannot load the shoulders when the box is dropped. so...

The hips begin to rotate open into foot plant as the box is lifted.

NOW...the shoulders load back( scap load) as the hips are opening accessing torso torque just at heel drop....overlap

He captures the most dynamic torque.

It is a mechanism to be timed ; not a timing mechanism

If you can time it you WILL hit it farther.

You're amazing shepster??!! How do you know all these players?? I know the scout who signed him personally and talked with him not too long ago. He said almost identically what you posted earlier in this thread when I spoke with him a while back!
Are you a scout? If not, you want a scouting job?

Longtime Player and now Longtime Observer

Hitting,

The whole key to hitting is timing, I do agree with shepster, when you start facing 90 mph pitching on a regular basis it will come into play. I say if your built like a Bonds or a Ortiz or even a old day Sammy and have that much power and you can do it on a consistant basis and drop bombs.....then do it. But more than likely it would be in your bes interest to stay clear of that.

Keep it simple. Any extra, unnecessary motion is just one more thing that can get out of adjustment and foul things up.

My 2 cents - Bonds drops his hands to load not only his core but also his tilt. Those hands come back up and set at connection when that ball is approaching 1/3rd of the way to the plate. Therefore, this isn't a "hitch" and it isn't a simple dropping of the hands. I've seen a series of still pics of this process and those pics clearly show tilt, connection, bat angle, load etc. I'd love to post them here but I don't have permission.

HOF1962, I'll send you a PM. peace, shep

Every good hitter does "his" thing---and it is not always good for all to follow---every players physical makeup is different and distinct unto themself---other wise we would all hit like Bagwell


BE YOURSELF !!!!

quote:

NOW...the shoulders load back( scap load) as the hips are opening accessing torso torque just at heel drop....overlap

Coach Butler...Hello...hope you are well and your team is promising

Watch Bonds load the back scap as the box is lifted.

try to load the scap without lifting the box....no can do

Alternate loading and unloading of the hips and then the shoulders helps to unload the hips before the shoulders and gets the hips ahead of the hands IMO/

Barry Bonds

Vlad Guerrero

Actually, Bonds raises his hands to hit. He goes down and then up to his shoulder area. Vlad lowers his hands to hit. He starts with them high and then lowers them to the shoulder area.
Both guys hands are at the shoulder area when their front foot lands.
They both tip the bathead out towards the infield area and that is how they get the bat started. Vlad starts high and lowers.....Barry starts low and raises....they both end up in the same place......the shoulder area.

I would concur with that statement

The physiology is the same. You cannot load the shoulders until the barrel returns to plane

My son mimicing the tipping of the barrel to oppo gap

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WAjIO0_JTI

Swingbuster, we begin February 26 and I can't wait to have some more fun. Thanks for asking. Presently, I don't have the ability to posts pictures and so I guess I'm going to have to get one of those websites so that I can do so. I have a great pic of Bonds that is relivant to this discussion. As always, I'm a day late and a dollar short when it comes to keeping up with you other guys and technology.

Swingbuster, I hope your son is doing fine as well. Baseball with Fathers and sons. Great combination!

quote:

I'm going to have to get one of those websites so that I can do so.

Only $25 for a year

Gets you your own web site for posting clips.

Back at cha Shep, now that I finally figured out how it works! Good communication tool here.

Long Time Player now Longtime Observer