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18 replies

Dual-Credit hours may have a negative impact?

GunEmDown10GunEmDown101,000+ posts
Here's an interesting dilemma, sorry so long. If a player has earned dual-credit college hours in HS, and those hours transfer to a JUCO where he is interested in playing baseball, the player may face sanctions involving eligibility.

It appears it can impact eligibility at the JUCO and it can prevent transfers to a D1 if the player fails to follow the proper academic path. As I understand it (limited understanding at-best), this player has 30 hours of dual-credit. Those hours are tranferable to the JUCO. Therefore, the player enter's the JUCO as a sophomore. If he wants to attend the JUCO for two years and/or transfer to a D1, he must complete the academic path to an Associates Degree to be eligible for either one.

Does this sound right? GED10DaD
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F 3FingeredGlove1,000+ posts
I don't see anything in either the NJCAA Eligibility Rules, or in the D1 Manual that constrains the eligibility of a student who took dual credit classes while in high school, assuming the student didn't play or practice baseball at the JC. Even practicing with the JC team while taking dual credit classes would have minimal impact unless he enrolls at a 4 year school rather than a JC after graduating from high school--that could technically make him a transfer student at the D1.

I don't see any rules that show a problem. Here's a D1 rule that suggests that dual credit courses aren't a problem:
14.2.2.3 Joint College/High School Program. A student-athlete’s eligibility under the five-year rule does not begin while a student is enrolled in a collegiate institution in a joint high school/college academic program for high school students in which the courses count as both high school graduation credit and college credit, provided the student has not officially graduated from high school and does not participate in intercollegiate athletics while enrolled in the joint program.

Of course that just covers the D1 5 year rule. But I don't see anything regarding transfers or intial eligibility, etc.
Last edited by 3FingeredGlove
F 3FingeredGlove1,000+ posts
quote:
If he was a qualifier...there is no restriction whatsoever on when he may transfer from the JUCO to D1.
Just for clarity, there are a couple of restrictions on "when".
A qualifier who enrolls at a JC needs to complete one full-time term at the JC before transferring to a D1 or D2, or sit for a year.

Also, for D1, a player need to have completed the fall semester at the D1 to be eligible for baseball, so a mid-year transfer to a D1 has to sit out the spring season.
Last edited by 3FingeredGlove
CADadCADad5,000+ posts
How about the 40/60/80 rule?

Oops, never mind:

quote:
Qualifier

A High School graduate who had the required academic qualifications to attend a 4 year university based on SAT score and GPA from High School
Registered with the Clearing House
If you are a Qualifier you
Must have a min. 2.0 GPA
Can transfer after one FT (12 transferable units) semester at Community College
If you are a Qualifier” for Div. I school—don’t need AA degree requirements
40-60-80 Rule doesn’t affect “Qualifiers” since allowed to transfer out of CC after One semester
If you want to find out if you are a Qualifier or you never registered with the Clearing House from High School, you can still do it now by going to: www.ncaaclearinghouse.net
Register on-line
Send your High School transcripts and SAT scores to the address on-line
Pay a $50 fee
Clearing House phone #1877-262-1492
from Pierce College website

I believe, but am not certain that a qualifier still has to average 24 transferable units per year in order to transfer to a D1. My son is a qualifier and his counselor is recommending underenrolling in fall 2010 and then 12 units including 3 units of baseball in spring 2011 which doesn't make any sense to me as I believe that would put him below an average of 24 units per year.

Isn't the concern about the dual credit hours due to the player possibly being considered a junior and being required to transfer out of the JC before having gotten the chance to play 2 seasons?
Last edited by CADad
F 3FingeredGlove1,000+ posts
CADad,
I'm not sure what the Pierce College website is saying.
However, the 40/60/80 rule(14.4.3.2) does apply to transfers from 2 or 4 year colleges. (see 14.4.3.2.2)

In the OP, the player is in very good shape for the 40/60/80 rule, because the NCAA doesn't speak of "juniors"; instead it refers to the 3rd year of collegiate enrollment. The OP was still in high school while amassing the dual credits. He's ahead of the game.

In your son's case, transfer eligibility wouldn't be a problem if he gets in a semester with 12 hours of transferrable credit. Will baseball units transfer?

However, besides meeting the transfer eligibility requirements, he also needs to meet academic progress. He needs to make sure that he'll be in compliance with the 40 percent.
Last edited by 3FingeredGlove
CADadCADad5,000+ posts
I believe up to 4 units of an activity are transferable, however I doubt they meet the definition of academic hours for the 18/27 rule or the 6 hours rule.

I think that the Pierce site is simply saying that a qualifier could transfer after completing 1 semester that included 12 semester hours. In that case the 40/60/80 rule wouldn't mean much while they were at the JC. They would still have to meet the requirements as they went forward at the school they transferred to. They would also have to meet the 24/36 rule after their first year.
Last edited by CADad
CADadCADad5,000+ posts
A counselor from another JC answered this 40/60/80 question for me. They want the redshirt athletes to under enroll for at least one semester to keep them from reaching the point where they invoke the 60% part of the rule while still at the JC. It is very difficult to meet the 60% while still at a JC so they don't want the athletes to have 3 full time years of enrollment at the JC if possible.
F 3FingeredGlove1,000+ posts
Traveler,
The second post in this thread expresses my opinion that it typically isn't a problem, as long as the student hasn't graduated from high school. But with home schooling, I'm not clear how or when a student graduates.

Why not contact the NCAA to get an opinion?

AS a practical aside, is your son's name on a roster list or on any kind of paperwork at the JC? Put another way, how would the NCAA become aware of this?
T Traveler10+ posts
3FG, thank you for the response.
He hasn't graduated from high school. As far as when that would happen it would be the same as if he were in public/private school, in this case 2012.
He does have to register for a baseball PE class at the JC for liability reasons so I guess that would be paperwork. I read your first post again and it looks like you are saying it shouldn't be a problem if he goes the JC route. How about if he wants to go directly to a 4 year institution?
Thanks again.
F 3FingeredGlove1,000+ posts
I don't think there really is a problem. Simply practicing with a JC is OK from an eligibility point of view. (It's even OK to practice with a pro team. 12.2.2) The only thing that is concerning is that the NCAA lists the ways (14.5.2) a person is considered to be a transfer student, and one of those ways is A transfer student is an individual who transfers from a collegiate institution after having met any one of the following conditions at that institution: ....(g)The student participated in practice or competed in a given sport even though the student was enrolled in less than a minimum full-time program of studies;.

I think that person who is still a high school student won't be considered to have transferred from a college (bolded section above), even though they were receiving dual credits, or even registered in a non-dual credit JC course.
So my only concern is with a home-schooled student, who might have trouble showing that he was really in high school. Sounds like he can show that he is still in high school, because he hasn't graduated yet.

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