Early commitment question

The one thing that we are going to be wary of (son is a 2022 also) is committing and then the school falling out of love with you, or falling in love with someone else.  Verbal=Verbal on both sides.

elovell posted:

2 of my son’s friends (2022) recently committed to a local P5 school. Both are well deserved. One of the kids is a RHP 84-86 & the other is a power hiter. I think they will both progress & have their commitments honored. My question is if they had waited until they are older & even better, could they have used that as leverage to get a larger scholarship % or do schools usually offer a set amount regardless & they’ll get the same offer now as what they could’ve gotten down the road?

One of the difficulties in College Baseball (unlike D1 football)is that coaches to tend to honor the gentleman's agreement with other schools and don't continue go after and recruit players already committed and try to get them to flip. This combined with the 11.7 for 27 players makes leveraging a school  a very difficult endeavor.   Coaches only have so much money to build a roster with. 

But your assumption that these young individuals who haven't even played a H.S. game are giving up leverage is correct.  Their leverage is in staying uncommitted and exploring as many options as they can for as long as they can.  There are several P5 schools that pull these kids offers late in the game, during the kids senior year, and sometimes right before signing day.   When they don't continue to blossom, a kid may be told he as to move to preferred walk-on if he still wants to attend.  Or worse, we simply don't want you anymore.

I understand all of the potential pitfalls of early recruitment of it falling through etc. I just wonder if there can be an impact on scholarship dollars. 

If you are a "Big Dog" you can always pick & choose another P5 if the first one flakes out, or the coach leaves or whatever.   If you don't become a true "Big Dog" you'd never play there anyways, might get cut in Fall Ball, might be a 35th man riding the bench, might transfer to a D3 or JUCO etc etc

Point being, it is a win win situation although a lot of folks won't see it that way because they don't look at the big picture.  You can name me any college Baseball player in the country, you think if they hit .150 or have a 8.46 ERA they are gonna keep their spot?

Big time college Baseball is about Big Dogs vs Big Dogs and you have to pull up your big boy pants and prove yourself every step of the way.

If those 2022 kids got themselves a commit at a dream school, good for them!  It doesn't really matter about holding out for a "better deal".  If they want more money tell them to get a 3.5+ GPA in high school and get themselves some academic money.

Wow, that is crazy, 2022 - is that 8th going into 9th grade?    What is defined as a power hitter as a 2022?  Good for those boys! Also, how big are they?

I think it really depends on what they were offered and how they progress as players.

If the offers are good, I doubt if they’d get more. Sometimes (not always) the longer you wait, there’s less money available. 

Sometimes, players dont always develop as projected and could end up getting a smaller percentage by waiting. 

That’s really a tough question to answer because it’s like trying to predict the future.  

Point being, it is a win win situation although a lot of folks won't see it that way because they don't look at the big picture.  You can name me any college Baseball player in the country, you think if they hit .150 or have a 8.46 ERA they are gonna keep their spot?

While I think we are all familiar with how this works for early commits, I disagree that this is a "win-win" situation by definition.  Players take all the risk.  No one will continue to actively recruit them once they are verbally committed in baseball.  Coaches take no effective risk and will continue to recruit indefinitely.  Replacing a player if they can get someone that throws harder, hits harder, or runs faster.

Everyone has their own interpretation of the "big picture".  I would say every potential college athlete and parent of a potential athlete would be better off to explore, research, and educate themselves as much as they can before deciding what is right for them.   There are so many things early recruits can't do (prior to September of their junior year) that are part of the bigger picture that includes their education and well-being.  They can't sit and talk with coaches, can't tour the athletic facilities with a coach, can't meet trainers, can't talk with the academic counselors and tutors, cant dive into the offer sheet and go over exactly what it means finacially.

But like  I said, we all have our own big picture. 

But up until the end of May, you could do a lot of those things.  I would guess a lot of boys that committed this summer had the opportunity to tour the facilities and sit down with coaches before the rule changes.  2022 kids may not have, but I would bet 2021s that are good enough to commit now were being recruited before the rule change.

So the question comes up all the time.  Should a player still weigh his options even after he commits.  It seems like every tournament/showcase/baseball event i go to this conversation comes up.  Coaches will not initiate conversations with players who have committed verbally but should the player still have conversations with all of the aspects associated with this topic that have come up. 

Are there better offers out there?  Is there more money out there due to out of state or other issues?  Should a D1,D2, or D3 player who gets better after they commit still pursue conversations with higher coaches?

I know everyone says they do not actively recruit after commitment but I also know they are still watching.  When my middle son was committed but not signed we had several teams that were at every game he pitched it seemed watching and taking notes.  I just wonder in hindsight if they were just waiting on us to begin the conversation and whether they would have had the conversation and told us what their offer would be if he decommitted? Or would they have given the "we are definitely interested if he decommits" comment which is so vague.  How interested are you?   Again, this is a touchy subject because I believe everyone sits on edge until they actually receive the NLI and still hope it says what was agreed upon when it arrives.  it is a trusting game to some extent on both sides.  The coach is trusting the player does not decommit and the player/family is trusting the coach sends the NLI and it says what he said it would say.  Those who say all the risk is on the player are not talking about the elite players.  There are players on every coach's verbal list that he cannot replace if they decommit late in the process.  

I wonder what % of NLI's are not sent or are not what was originally offered. 

One of the best posts I ever saw on here was when someone asked a poster if his son knew where (regionally) he wanted to play college ball. The response was, “He’s fifteen. He has trouble figuring out what he’s wants for lunch.”

The problem with really early commitments is the players have stars in their eyes. Most can’t rationally make college decisions and decide which college is best for them academically. So, the parents have to make the decision. This isn’t always a good idea. This is a tough enough decision for any high school senior, much less a fourteen or fifteen year old.

Because girls mature sooner my daughter made her softball decision soph year when she was fifteen. She knew what she wanted to be when she grew up. She knew where she wanted to go to college based on the required major. She’s thirty now. She’s never worked a day in her life (and won’t) in her chosen major.

The college decision she made was fine for softball. But she had to work for two years building contacts and references for grad school due to her undergrad choice. While her college was tops in her major overall it had a mediocre reputation.

RJM posted:

One of the best posts I ever saw on here was when someone asked a poster if his son knew where (regionally) he wanted to play college ball. The response was, “He’s fifteen. He has trouble figuring out what he’s wants for lunch.”

The problem with really early commitments is the players have stars in their eyes. Most can’t rationally make college decisions and decide which college is best for them academically. So, the parents have to make the decision. This isn’t always a good idea. This is a tough enough decision for any high school senior, much less a fourteen or fifteen year old.

Because girls mature sooner my daughter made her softball decision soph year when she was fifteen. She knew what she wanted to be when she grew up. She knew where she wanted to go to college based on the required major. She’s thirty now. She’s never worked a day in her life (and won’t) in her chosen major.

The college decision she made was fine for softball. But she had to work for two years building contacts and references for grad school due to her undergrad choice. While her college was tops in her major overall it had a mediocre reputation.

 

Great post, but the story about your daughter also applies to 18, 20, 22 year olds, etc.  One thing I told my wife, and many can/may roast me for this, is I want to make sure my son really enjoys his baseball experience in choosing his school.  That's because these years are fleeting.  He'll have decades to work afterwards.

Dont get me wrong, my oldest non-athletic daughter goes to a fine school as is my son.  But I'm also not a huge believer that the school is going to guarantee you anything after baseball.  If we can find a balance for both, that is ideal.

Question is, did she have regrets and was her Softball experience worth the 2 years of building contacts?  My guess is, as the years go by and she has a family of her own, and maybe a softball playing daughter, she'll really value the choices she made and take great pride in the fact she played college ball.

My son is excited to start HS in a couple of weeks. To be honest, I doubt I would ever permit him to commit to any colleges before his SAT/ACT scores are known no matter how great he projects. 

2022NYC posted:

My son is excited to start HS in a couple of weeks. To be honest, I doubt I would ever permit him to commit to any colleges before his SAT/ACT scores are known no matter how great he projects. 

I completely agree with that sentiment from a GPA and educational interests perspective.  SAT/ACT not so much.  Many schools are test optional and I truly believe the SAT/ACT will be essentially obsolete in 5-10 years.

2022NYC posted:

My son is excited to start HS in a couple of weeks. To be honest, I doubt I would ever permit him to commit to any colleges before his SAT/ACT scores are known no matter how great he projects. 

Until a school like TCU, Oregon State, etc starts making offers, then you may change that tune. But I do know of players who committed early to schools that ended up not going there as they could not meet the entrance requirements (Stanford).

CTbballDad posted:

2022NYC posted:

My son is excited to start HS in a couple of weeks. To be honest, I doubt I would ever permit him to commit to any colleges before his SAT/ACT scores are known no matter how great he projects. 

I completely agree with that sentiment from a GPA and educational interests perspective.  SAT/ACT not so much.  Many schools are test optional and I truly believe the SAT/ACT will be essentially obsolete in 5-10 years.

I don't think so. Even with the warts, these test level the playing field and give a fairly objective measure of the student's ability to perform at the college level. Imagine a school basing admission on GPA alone? That would be laughable, as states like Florida have some re-donk-ulous weighted GPA opportunities (like weighted GPAs of 8 or 10). I just don't think that standardized testing as a whole will disappear. JCG mentioned a few days ago about the extreme vetting the HA schools do with regard to knowing the academic reputations of high schools that kids are applying from. That's likely necessary because of grade inflation, extreme use of AP classes by students, etc. My son's HS wouldn't even let a freshman take an AP class by policy. That theoretically already puts those students behind the power curve when competing for admission, I think the top kids in his school leave with weighted GPAs around 4.2-4.3

I know some schools are starting to not require standardized tests, but I think that will continue to be a minority of schools.

Just my opinion

Question: Don’t parents kind of have an idea of what kind of student their kid is before he gets to high school? Like whether he’s Stanford material?

Even if he’s in high school and in the recruiting process, wouldn’t you have a pretty good read on his academic capabilities?

GaryMe posted:

CTbballDad posted:

2022NYC posted:

My son is excited to start HS in a couple of weeks. To be honest, I doubt I would ever permit him to commit to any colleges before his SAT/ACT scores are known no matter how great he projects. 

I completely agree with that sentiment from a GPA and educational interests perspective.  SAT/ACT not so much.  Many schools are test optional and I truly believe the SAT/ACT will be essentially obsolete in 5-10 years.

I don't think so. Even with the warts, these test level the playing field and give a fairly objective measure of the student's ability to perform at the college level. Imagine a school basing admission on GPA alone? That would be laughable, as states like Florida have some re-donk-ulous weighted GPA opportunities (like weighted GPAs of 8 or 10). I just don't think that standardized testing as a whole will disappear. JCG mentioned a few days ago about the extreme vetting the HA schools do with regard to knowing the academic reputations of high schools that kids are applying from. That's likely necessary because of grade inflation, extreme use of AP classes by students, etc. My son's HS wouldn't even let a freshman take an AP class by policy. That theoretically already puts those students behind the power curve when competing for admission, I think the top kids in his school leave with weighted GPAs around 4.2-4.3

I know some schools are starting to not require standardized tests, but I think that will continue to be a minority of schools.

Just my opinion

The mighty dollar continues its stranglehold over college admissions.  By being test optional, a school will get more applicants and ultimately lowering their acceptance rate and yield.  By lowering those metrics, their rankings increase thus justifying continuous tuition increases.

I believe the majority of NESCAC schools are test optional.  Once/if the Ivy follow suit, it's game over.

This too, is just my opinion.

hshuler posted:

Question: Don’t parents kind of have an idea of what kind of student their kid is before he gets to high school? Like whether he’s Stanford material?

Even if he’s in high school and in the recruiting process, wouldn’t you have a pretty good read on his academic capabilities?

You would think so...but the same question can be made for parents who think their kid is top shelf in baseball and then get a dose of reality when things don't work out. Grade inflation is real, and can set a kid up for failure when they test and those numbers don't really align with their testing results. I personally know a family in which mom did the kid's homework and had a tutor write his HS papers. GPA is acceptable for most schools (B average). Kid took his SAT, mom won't even tell me what he got because he was poorly prepared to take the exam. This kid was thought by mom from 8U on to be a stud. Travel program told her the same thing. Don't take this the wrong way, but PG did as well with their rankings, invitation only events, etc. He cannot catch traction with anyone due to test scores, because schools believe they are indicative of chances for future success. Parental unit hosed this kid thinking they were doing him a favor. Everyone bought into it...

GaryMe posted:

hshuler posted:

Question: Don’t parents kind of have an idea of what kind of student their kid is before he gets to high school? Like whether he’s Stanford material?

Even if he’s in high school and in the recruiting process, wouldn’t you have a pretty good read on his academic capabilities?

You would think so...but the same question can be made for parents who think their kid is top shelf in baseball and then get a dose of reality when things don't work out. Grade inflation is real, and can set a kid up for failure when they test and those numbers don't really align with their testing results. I personally know a family in which mom did the kid's homework and had a tutor write his HS papers. GPA is acceptable for most schools (B average). Kid took his SAT, mom won't even tell me what he got because he was poorly prepared to take the exam. This kid was thought by mom from 8U on to be a stud. Travel program told her the same thing. Don't take this the wrong way, but PG did as well with their rankings, invitation only events, etc. He cannot catch traction with anyone due to test scores, because schools believe they are indicative of chances for future success. Parental unit hosed this kid thinking they were doing him a favor. Everyone bought into it...

Oy vey!