Several current topics are addressing D3s schools and recruiting. One topic which frequently comes up in D3 recruiting is the concept of coaches asking a player to apply ED.
Perhaps parents who journeyed through D3 recruiting could tell interested players/parents the advantages/disadvantages of taking the ED route.
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As a D3 coach we always encourage our top recruits to get on board early. The other borderline PSA's are encouraged to check out as many opportunities at other schools as possible. At our school we have what is called Direct Admit, where the coaches walk the PSA through the admissions process and find out immediately if they are accepted. If they have a challenge we can find out what needs to be done to gain admittance.
Good topic and great timing, Goosegg, as the first Headfirst Camp of the summer begins tomorrow, and Stanford All Star Camp 1 begins later this week.
Which D3 are you with, Ozone?
lots of the D3s have Early Action as well. Trinity's deadlines are almost hilarious.
Ozone - as a D3 coach, I am sure there are a LOT of people on this site who will have questions for you. I will certainly be asking more as we go through this process. Thanks for all of your posts.
There were a few advantages for our 2016 to apply ED with HC support at his D3 but I also saw a disadvantage.
The advantages:
2016 (and us, his parents) felt like he found the right school, it may have been slightly out of reach academically and the ED with coach's support ensured that he would be admitted
ED eliminated some of the hassle of applying to multiple schools, waiting to see which ones accepted and then trying to determine the best spot. 2016 applied to just the one. While we still had to wait it out for the final decision we felt semi-confident that he'd get in based on what coach told him.
The process was over for him in Dec once the ED acceptances were released
His school needed a big recruiting class and HC seemed to get it all through ED so all recruits have known since Dec that they were in, have been on an email and text chain and have communicated. 2016 has his roommate for this fall through that chain - another local player who applied ED and will be on the team. We feel like this will really help with his transition to living on his own.
Disadvantages:
Once you're in - that's it. Whatever aid/financial aid package you might receive is what you're getting. There is no comparison with another "offer" from another school. If you're a top student you should get as clear a picture as possible from admissions/financial aid on what is available to you. This didn't apply to 2016 at the school he chose (unfortunately) but there were modest awards available at other schools who were interested in him that he could have potentially compared with a regular admission process.
MK,
It's great that it worked out well for your family, but based on few stories I've read here on HSBBW in public and private, as well as some local anecdotes from the non-digital world, your strategy carries some risk. If the coach fails to get the kid through admissions, then you're left to scramble to get other applications in, with or without baseball. If my 2017 up going that route, at the very least we'll have the other apps teed up.
JCG posted:MK,
It's great that it worked out well for your family, but based on few stories I've read here on HSBBW in public and private, as well as some local anecdotes from the non-digital world, your strategy carries some risk. If the coach fails to get the kid through admissions, then you're left to scramble to get other applications in, with or without baseball. If my 2017 up going that route, at the very least we'll have the other apps teed up.
I 100% agree with you - I left that part out. We were worried right up till he got the call from the coach and there were many here who helped me with my 1000s of questions at the time. It would have been a scramble for sure but he had time to get applications in and with the common app it's a little easier now. I did hear stories (directly here via PM) from people whose sons did not get in to their top choice after applying ED1.
We did have a list of several more schools (with baseball involved) where he could have applied regular decision and got in - at least in theory based on what I received from Admissions at those schools. He was not as interested in those schools for a variety of reasons (most of which were not baseball related).
None of it is easy, that's for sure.
MKbaseballdad posted:JCG posted:MK,
It's great that it worked out well for your family, but based on few stories I've read here on HSBBW in public and private, as well as some local anecdotes from the non-digital world, your strategy carries some risk. If the coach fails to get the kid through admissions, then you're left to scramble to get other applications in, with or without baseball. If my 2017 up going that route, at the very least we'll have the other apps teed up.
I 100% agree with you - I left that part out. We were worried right up till he got the call from the coach and there were many here who helped me with my 1000s of questions at the time. It would have been a scramble for sure but he had time to get applications in and with the common app it's a little easier now. I did hear stories (directly here via PM) from people whose sons did not get in to their top choice after applying ED1.
We did have a list of several more schools (with baseball involved) where he could have applied regular decision and got in - at least in theory based on what I received from Admissions at those schools. He was not as interested in those schools for a variety of reasons (most of which were not baseball related).
None of it is easy, that's for sure.
I think the soundness of this strategy depends a LOT on both the selectiveness of the school and the competitiveness of the student's application for that school. At highly selective schools -- I'm thinking the ones with single digit acceptance rates -- MANY very fine students who apply ED may be deferred to regular decision. Some of them still don't get in via regular decision necessarily. I know of two cases first hand where the students were deferred to regular and then wait-listed. Both were baseball players. Both were "recruited." Both schools are highly selective. One ended up going to the relevant school off the wait list and actually played a fair amount as a freshman. The other decided to go for the big state school experience in the end and gave up baseball. So you never know. You definitely have to have a fall back plan.
On the other hand, the acceptance rates together with the yield rates at some of the less selective schools means an academically strong student athlete has a really good chance of being accepted ED. But then the question is that really and truly the school you want to go to? Is it a school you'd be perfectly happy to be at if baseball doesn't work out -- which it may well not.
No simple formula here.
SluggerDad posted:MKbaseballdad posted:JCG posted:MK,
It's great that it worked out well for your family, but based on few stories I've read here on HSBBW in public and private, as well as some local anecdotes from the non-digital world, your strategy carries some risk. If the coach fails to get the kid through admissions, then you're left to scramble to get other applications in, with or without baseball. If my 2017 up going that route, at the very least we'll have the other apps teed up.
I 100% agree with you - I left that part out. We were worried right up till he got the call from the coach and there were many here who helped me with my 1000s of questions at the time. It would have been a scramble for sure but he had time to get applications in and with the common app it's a little easier now. I did hear stories (directly here via PM) from people whose sons did not get in to their top choice after applying ED1.
We did have a list of several more schools (with baseball involved) where he could have applied regular decision and got in - at least in theory based on what I received from Admissions at those schools. He was not as interested in those schools for a variety of reasons (most of which were not baseball related).
None of it is easy, that's for sure.
I think the soundness of this strategy depends a LOT on both the selectiveness of the school and the competitiveness of the student's application for that school. At highly selective schools -- I'm thinking the ones with single digit acceptance rates -- MANY very fine students who apply ED may be deferred to regular decision. Some of them still don't get in via regular decision necessarily. I know of two cases first hand where the students were deferred to regular and then wait-listed. Both were baseball players. Both were "recruited." Both schools are highly selective. One ended up going to the relevant school off the wait list and actually played a fair amount as a freshman. The other decided to go for the big state school experience in the end and gave up baseball. So you never know. You definitely have to have a fall back plan.
On the other hand, the acceptance rates together with the yield rates at some of the less selective schools means an academically strong student athlete has a really good chance of being accepted ED. But then the question is that really and truly the school you want to go to? Is it a school you'd be perfectly happy to be at if baseball doesn't work out -- which it may well not.
No simple formula here.
I was going to give this its own topic but I think it fits here:
The situation is hypothetical as of now, but could be very real very soon.
Bird in the hand:
Offer from strong program in lower level D1 conference. Not a highly selective school academically but good match for intended major, great campus, size, location, etc. Generous merit aid makes it very workable for family.
Bird in the bush:
Good program in fine D3 conference. Very highly selective school academically. A dream school that frankly 2017 would have little chance of getting into without baseball. Great campus, location, etc. No merit aid. Generous need-based aid, but nothing guaranteed until after admission, and likely to be more expensive than bird #1. Coach wants kid, will try to get him through admission (ED), but there's no guarantee.
Fallback plan:
If D1 offer is not accepted, and D3 school doesn’t work out, 2017 would then decide whether to attend state school as student only, or attend very good nearby JC in order to get to next level.
No simple formula indeed.
What would you want your kid to do?
And this, by the way, is one motivation for D3 coaches to "over-recruit" i.e. hedge their bets. Since there is no NLI involved, there's not even the degree of certainty that that entails in recruiting. They cannot be absolutely certain what the complete picture is until all the admissions and acceptance dust is settled.
JCG:
Great post and one that really gets to the heart of why this process is so challenging for everyone involved, including the coaches from both programs interested in the kid and would have to wait out a decision.
If my son is lucky enough to find himself with a "bird in the hand" that is real close to a match for all of his criteria, I would encourage him to choose that route. That assumes he feels really comfortable with the coach and believes he will be able to compete for playing time while being able to pursue his intended major. It sounds like a pretty good school and in the end, it is what the kid does with the degree when they hit the job market that is the most important thing, not the school they went to.
Regarding the D3 option, sure it sounds really intriguing to be admitted to such an academic elite school. But the whole D3 aspect with no athletic scholarship and less coach power to push the application through to acceptance that would scare me away. Especially if it meant giving up the D1 option.
As many of these threads have emphasized, the key is finding the best fit for your son to succeed as a student while also giving him a chance to continue to play baseball in college.
JCG posted:Offer from strong program in lower level D1 conference. Not a highly selective school academically but good match for intended major, great campus, size, location, etc. Generous merit aid makes it very workable for family.
Is that an athletic scholarship + merit aid, or merit aid only?
It's still a hypothetical question at this point. We know the least amount of merit he would receive. We have a visit scheduled and hope and expect an offer to be made, but won't know what if any athletic money is there until that happens.
JCG posted:It's still a hypothetical question at this point. We know the least amount of merit he would receive. We have a visit scheduled and hope and expect an offer to be made, but won't know what if any athletic money is there until that happens.
I only ask because that would influence my opinion about my son choosing that school. Not because of the money, but because a baseball scholarship tells me that the coach thinks he can play for his program. I wouldn't advise my son to walk on (preferred or otherwise) at a D1 (assuming they are funded) unless he fully understood that the odds were against him, and all of the other variables combine to make that risk acceptable. Also, he could turn down that D1 offer for the D3 path, then go back to the D1 as a walk on if not accepted at the D3 confident that he's good enough to compete. Admittedly, that strategy probably wouldn't work with many coaches, but the bottom line is that they are always looking for the best players.
Gotcha. I doubt they are fully funded, but I'll be sure to find out. Coach may be blowing smoke but he's telling kid he expects him to at least compete for starting role freshman year. I think my take going in is that if they have 5+ scholarships funded then they need to give 25% to any player they really want to sign. If it's <5 then I'd understand that the money just doesn't exist. OTOH in general my kid's attitude is that he doesn't care what coaches expect - he'll earn playing time and make an impact no matter what. I have to respect that, so if the right 0% offer came up he would take that with my blessing.
JCG posted:No simple formula indeed.
What would you want your kid to do?
Agreed there is no simple formuia. in your hypothetical situation, I would want my son to find more "birds" (in your example), and tell me what he wants to do after college. If professional baseball is at the top of the list then we'd discuss how he is going to get there. If a professional "anthropologist" (example) is his long term goal then we discuss how to get there, and baseball becomes secondary issue or a "nice to have". The scholarship money, merit money and fully funded discussion only cloud the situation until your son decides on goals and a starting point.
In my honest opinion, academics and baseball can coexist but it has to be crystal clear to the student-athlete on the front end of college admissions which is most important. Minds can be changed but a starting plan is good for the student and good for the parents. There have been plenty of folks on HSBBWeb where professional baseball was their single focus. There have also been many folks who wanted to focus on their major and play college baseball with no desire to play professionally.
As the father of three son's I want my kids to tell me what their initial plan is, where some of my money is going, and when they think they'll be able to pay off their student loans. The money part makes it real for student and parent.
As always, JMO.
PS...We're still waiting on your new clever handle! :-)
Fine post as always, Fenway. Yes, more birds would be good. In fact, he's engaged in the hunt as I type this. Great point about goals. I will address that in a later reply.
My Son applied ED and was accepted. After visits to several schools (D1 and D3), numerous telephone calls with coaches over several months, discussions with people who had experienced the same thing and the expected internet research, my son (and his parents) were confident that if accepted, the school to which he was applying ED was the right one. (It was.) If there is real doubt on whether your Son will be accepted I would not apply ED. Look at the stats (both ED and regular) and talk to the coach. Ask where your son sits on his list. You will have to trust him. Ask how often an applicant with your Sons numbers (SAT/GPA) at the same rank on the coaches list has been accepted/rejected. All fair questions. If you don't get a straight answer, you have your answer.
JCG - We were in a somewhat similar situation. Choice was easy for us. Use baseball as leverage to get into the best academic school possible. Not even a close call. More $$ out-of-pocket, yes. However, the difference in the rest of your child's life because of education, reputation, contacts, and quality of other students, and their families, will likely be significant and well worth the money. Plus, at a D3 school the likelihood of earlier and more playing time is greater than at a D1 school. email if you want more info.
cgc3 posted:My Son applied ED and was accepted. After visits to several schools (D1 and D3), numerous telephone calls with coaches over several months, discussions with people who had experienced the same thing and the expected internet research, my son (and his parents) were confident that if accepted, the school to which he was applying ED was the right one. (It was.) If there is real doubt on whether your Son will be accepted I would not apply ED. Look at the stats (both ED and regular) and talk to the coach. Ask where your son sits on his list. You will have to trust him. Ask how often an applicant with your Sons numbers (SAT/GPA) at the same rank on the coaches list has been accepted/rejected. All fair questions. If you don't get a straight answer, you have your answer.
JCG - We were in a somewhat similar situation. Choice was easy for us. Use baseball as leverage to get into the best academic school possible. Not even a close call. More $$ out-of-pocket, yes. However, the difference in the rest of your child's life because of education, reputation, contacts, and quality of other students, and their families, will likely be significant and well worth the money. Plus, at a D3 school the likelihood of earlier and more playing time is greater than at a D1 school. email if you want more info.
Great post,
Just want to add, The bolded statement is true if you have the talent. Too many kids go to D3 thinking they will get playing time. But Competition can be just as fierce at a D3 as a D1.
BishopLeftiesDad posted:Just want to add, The bolded statement is true if you have the talent. Too many kids go to D3 thinking they will get playing time. But Competition can be just as fierce at a D3 as a D1.
Amen to that. And this is a VERY important thing to take account of when applying to a D3. Be careful about binding yourself to a D3 program via the ED route for the sake of baseball unless you are either as sure as you can be that you will play there or are convinced that you would be happy there, even if no baseball materializes.
