"EFFORTLESSLY"

Interesting discussion. Years ago when he was 5' 6" and 115 lbs, a college coach sitting beside me said he was throwing with a a lot of effort at 85 mph. I did not really understand until later.

After years in the weight room, at 6'1" and 207 lbs, he has learned to use lower body. Along with that and a squat of 515, I can now see the ball explode out of his hand and hitting 97-98.

But as I watch another pitcher throwing it is obvious that his 6'7" frame also makes that explosion possible with less effort.

I also wonder if that makes the difference between starter and reliever?

So again get stronger and faster!

Good Knight:

Ron Perranoski the Dodgers relief pitcher and my MSU teammate, was a successful pitcher. He displayed "no emotion" and had "ice water" in his veins.

Great control of 2 pitches [curve and "moving" fastball].

Bob

Always discussing Easy/Hard concept of pitching with son, ie throw hard...easy.  To trust the sequence and the kinetic chain and let the ball explode without feeling like your working to make it happen.  For him it comes down to loading correctly, proper sequence and mechanics and pulling throughout the arm spiral after flip up.  The validation is in constantly monitoring bullpens with radar and an emphasis on feel so he knows what he did when it produces results.

When he reaches new max velos while hitting his spots and tells me he felt like he was giving 80% effort, that's when he buys in.

Others really embrace the whole moving fast down the mound and throwing with max effort, but I watch it and it just looks awkward and unsustainable to me, heck if it works for them, who am I to say it's not a good approach.  But I do often see scouting reports and hear baseball guys mention how easy and relaxed a pitcher creates velocity as if that is the desired trait.

I do think pitchers without the long levers need to use more effort through moving quicker to create and transfer more energy and can do so with more margin for error, than a lanky pitcher.

@Good Knight posted:

Interesting discussion. Years ago when he was 5' 6" and 115 lbs, a college coach sitting beside me said he was throwing with a a lot of effort at 85 mph. I did not really understand until later.

@Good Knight

Most don't realize until it's too late that the power doesn't come from the arm but the lower half.  I would imagine that has a lot to do with youth arm injuries.

For folks with young pitchers, work on the stuff first, the velo will catch up as the player matures physically.

If someone doesn't know what they are doing, get a qualified instructor or someone who has a clue.

On the college level, in many programs, many pitchers can start, relieve and close but I think personality has a lot to do with it. JMO

@TPM posted:

@Good Knight

Most don't realize until it's too late that the power doesn't come from the arm but the lower half.  I would imagine that has a lot to do with youth arm injuries.

For folks with young pitchers, work on the stuff first, the velo will catch up as the player matures physically.

If someone doesn't know what they are doing, get a qualified instructor or someone who has a clue.

On the college level, in many programs, many pitchers can start, relieve and close but I think personality has a lot to do with it. JMO

I saw way too many youth pitchers throwing all arm. When I explained power comes from the legs they didn’t get it. I’d show them then advise finding a pitching coach.

I always advised work on perfecting mechanics and throw with intent. Strength and velocity come after puberty.

@HSDad22 posted:

I do think pitchers without the long levers need to use more effort through moving quicker to create and transfer more energy and can do so with more margin for error, than a lanky pipitcher.

I always thought that height and the stride meant that the ball reached the plate faster, giving the hitter less chance to recognize what's coming.

As far as the difference between starters and relievers (college) is not so much about height but also their "stuff". When son was at FAU, the Friday night guy was a tall lefty, threw his best at max 85,87 but his CB was unhittable.

@Consultant posted:

With the current discussion for "max" effort, I recall pitchers, who pitched w/o effort and the baseball "exploded" in the strike zone. The same with hitters like Ted Williams and Henry Aaron.

Question: how do you teach to play the game "effortlessly"?

Pro scouts have a great eye for the effort of a player.

Bob

Bob, back in the day, I was one of the high school coaches on the St. Louis Post Dispatch Coach's Committee who voted on all area.  In doing so, I was asked to go watch this HS pitcher who blew everyone away.  I had a pretty good pitcher that year who I thought might have a shot at first team.  I went to watch this guy.  There was a night and day difference.  This guy was the best HS pitcher I have ever seen and I've seen several HS pitchers and coached a few who made it to MLB.  His name?  Max Scherzer!

You are so right about seeing someone play effortlessly.  Everyone knew that Max was destined to be great. 

Coach;

great story. I noticed, when he pitches he is focused on the web of the catchers mitt. The "mind" is single focused. He knows the hitter's weakness.

Bob

@TPM posted:

I always thought that height and the stride meant that the ball reached the plate faster, giving the hitter less chance to recognize what's coming.

As far as the difference between starters and relievers (college) is not so much about height but also their "stuff". When son was at FAU, the Friday night guy was a tall lefty, threw his best at max 85,87 but his CB was unhittable.

More height, or more accurately longer arms (levers) means being able to apply the same amount of force but produce more velocity.  So two pitchers who are able to produce the same amount of force being equal in strength, etc. but the one with the longer lever will be able to produce more velocity as that force can be applied longer prior to release.

Or in this discussion, apply less force (or effort) to produce the same velocity.

Think of a door, applying the same amount of effort or force, it is much easier to open and opens much faster if you push on the door farthest away from the hinges, vs applying the same force by pushing on the door next to the hinges.