Ethics of College Coaches being paid by bat companies

I wouldn't call it unethical, just a business deal, but I will say thank the Lord above Bum, Jr. doesn't have to deal with kiddie bats anymore.  Wood is wonderful.

A man after my own heart. 

 

Unfortunately it will take time for H.S. and college coaches to not worry about winning and worry about the development of their players. 

I don't agree with this topic at all.  If it is a problem, than all college sports would be in trouble because they are sponsored by apparel companies, shoe companies, other equipment companies, etc.  Why should the bat manufacturers be any different?

Not to be argumentative however I don't quite understand this logic...other than maybe minor league teams that are in place to develop players for the Parent club why would any coach not worry about winning?  

 

I'm all for wood bats being used and I agree that development of players is important however why should a high school coach (or college for that matter) care about developing a player to hit with wood bats?  At this point a VERY small percentage of high school and college players will be required to use wood in the professional ranks.

Many college coaches have a sincere interest in and are quite accomplished at developing their players; but, not one is going to invite any of their players to choose between wood and metal bats. Nor are they going to recommend that their programs embrace wood when their competitors are hitting with metal. From their perspective, even the BBCOR bat is superior offensively to the wood bat, and they're going to demand that their players hit with the better bat.

 

After all, their livelihoods, ultimately, depend upon the approval of their bosses, the Athletic Directors; and Athletic Directors are routinely expected to produce winning programs. So, if you think that it's just a matter of time until these "misguided" people who run baseball programs and athletic departments see the error of their ways and chuck the metal bats in favor of wood, you're setting yourself up for a long-term wait.

 

The large majority of collegiate summer leagues use wood. The college coaches are going to continue to look upon those summer months as the period when their players have an opportunity to show what they can do with wood.

 

Meanwhile, if you're going to start singling out college coaches and their programs for benefiting from bat manufacturers' support, you'd better be prepared to start applying it to a whole slew of professions and products. Paid endorsements have been a foundation for the marketing of a wide variety of products forever, and that's never going to change.

 

No one is getting hurt or slighted here. All of the manufacturers involved produce quality bats; and, in keeping with the underlying axiom that coaches have to win to keep their jobs, manufacturers that produce quality bats are going to get chosen to provide their products to individual programs.

 

 

 

Prepster- Great post as always.

 

Doughnutman- I don't know what bat contracts have to do with wood vs. metal. It's an entirely different topic of conversation.

I'm in favor of wood, always will be.  Might never happen in HS or college.  Too much money involved.  

 

That said most of the major colleges have contracts with Nike, UA, Adidas, etc. for equipment, shoes and uniforms.  Nothing wrong with that IMO.  

 

Many of the top bat companies manufacture both wood and metal bats.  There's just more profit in the metal bats.  If they want to pay coaches, that's great.  

 

Metal bats don't ruin the game.  They are just different.  They are switching to the flat seam ball.  It appears that part of the reasoning is to increase offensive production.  Switching to wood would decrease offensive production.

 

i am for wood, but it's a great game with or without it. MLB scouts would rather see players hit with wood.  However sometimes you have to do with what you have. In college and HS that is watching players hit with metal bats. 

 

For sure, there is nothing wrong with college coaches getting endorsement deals.  Professional athletes get endorsement deals.  Might not be as much, but if they switched to wood, the wood bat people would still offer endorsement deals.  They will always want the top programs using their products. Guess it's just marketing strategy.  

The conventional wisdom is that the economic power of the bat manufacturers will perpetually keep non-wood bats in the HS and college game. It's nice to be able to keep that big barrier to entry into that market and keep competitors out. Anyone with a lathe and a garage can start a wood bat company, not so much with non-wood (yes, I'm over-simplifying - making marketable wood bats takes more than that, but a whole lot less than setting up to make non-wood bats).

 

The only way this changes is if an organization with a vested interest in HS and college baseball with MORE economic power gets involved...

 

With changes in draft rules which funnel more players to the college game, and download player development to colleges, that organization could be Major League Baseball. There already is movement towards a closer working relationship between NCAA and MLB, maybe an all-wood college game will eventually come from that partnership... 

 

I guess what I'm getting at is this; If MLB scouts REALLY want to see college players hit with wood, they just need to get MLB to pay colleges more money to hit with wood than manufacturers pay them not to.

I would suppose one of the reasons Bryce Harper went to a junior college wood bat league instead of a D1 powerhouse is to prove his worth with wood and show the MLB what he could do. 

 

I don't think DI was ever a consideration for Bryce Harper, since his plan was to be draft-eligible after one year at a JC.  Having a wood bat JC team right in his own backyard was pretty amazing.  Hard to believe that he was just 17 years old at the time, and went to the JCWS.

 

Not sure I understand the ethics question.  If the issue is a coach forcing his players to use an inferior bat because he penned a sweet deal with the manufacturer, I would say he's cutting his own throat.  Are you saying that the school should get that money?  The athletes?

 

I don't have a problem with this type of endorsement, where the party being paid is actually using the product.  Now when Shaq tells me he fits comfortably inside his tiny Buick... that's a different story.

 

I believe it is an ethical question because the bat they use is based on financial gain for the coach. Not what is best or safest(wood) or what helps to develop their players. Which bat are they going to have their players use? 100K contract bat or 150K contract bat? The decisions seem to be based soley on what they can put in their pockets. They claim to be old school. They want their players to play old school. There is no way they would ever vote for wood.

 

I agree with others.  A HC is not going to contract with a bat company if he feels the bats are inferior from a performance standpoint.  His primary objective and what he is graded on largely is wins.  The free bats and other benefits go a long way toward helping with the sports budget issues.  Each of the major manufacturers offer multiple styles with different balances, etc., and they all have bats that perform well. 

Coaches do whats best for the team. Several years ago UNC signed a huge bat deal with Nike. A couple of years later it was canceled when they decided that bats were inferior. Four or five years ago Akadema made a big push into the baseball equipment market. Temple signed with them for bats. After a year of the players complaining about the bats they opted out.

The actual details of the UNC situation vary a little from RJM's summary, but his basic point still stands.

 

Nike has been the sole supplier of all athletic equipment and uniforms to all 28 of UNC's varsity sports for quite a few years. It had been an exclusive contract, and Nike was quite diligent in enforcing its exclusivity there.

 

A relative newcomer to the metal bat market, Nike required that UNC and all other schools' baseball teams use Nike bats once they entered the market. Almost immediately, players and coaches from all Nike-equipped schools began to complain about the bats being provided.

 

At first, Nike was unrelenting in its requirement; while it worked over the course of several years to improve its bats. Finally, several years ago, Nike announced that it was releasing UNC and all other college baseball programs it supported from the requirement that they use their bats.

 

During the Fall and Spring seasons of 2011-2012 (the first following Nike's release), UNC players were allowed to hit with their choice of bats; and 4 or 5 bat companies provided bats for them to use. Then, following another Fall season of bat choice, the decision was made to endorse Hillerich & Bradsby's "Louisville Slugger" brand for the 2013 and ensuing seasons. While UNC players had used a number of different companies' bats, the H&B bats seemed to get the most use by them.

All I know, is that as a parent who bought piles of cleats, sliders, undershirts, gloves, batting gloves, warm-up jackets, bats, etc, etc, etc from T-ball through HS, I'm actually pretty happy we/he haven't had to buy a single piece of baseball equipment in now our son's Junior year of college.  And that's at a D3 school. 

College sports is big business,  don't you get that. It is not unethical to endorse any product, though I believe that decisions are made individually based upon what is best for that program.

BTW,  many coaches did not particularly like the change in new bats. The new bats changed the college game, so why would anyone think that they would endorse wood.

Read the link.

http://www.thestate.com/2013/0...-throw-colleges.html

 

The job of the college coach is to win and fill seats, if he so desires to develop a player for the next level that is his choice, he's not getting paid to do that.

 

I would like to know what really bothers those that feel this is unethical, lack of ethics or lack of player production?

Actually these bats are not really "free" , yes free to the players and the program. However the coaches do get paid for endorsing a companies product and has to be declared in their annual salary.

D 1 baseball programs cost a lot of money, and earn very little--essentially, baseball is non-revenue sport.  D 1 baseball relies on the free equipment and the payments (which can be considerable) to the coaches.

 

 

There are many big issues in college sports, and a few in college baseball.  This ain't one of them IMHO.

+1

I don't have time to address everything, but a couple of you are helping my argument. On the UNC front with NIKE, how many years did they stick with an inferior product? They could have broke the contract. But that would have taken money out of there pockets. Another company might have been able to step in for a big time school like UNC. Could they have paid the coaches more money? Doubtful. Improved performance on the field helps a program more than anything else I know of. And they gave it away for short term $$.

 

ANd the question of development? Is there any coach in all of baseball that doesn't have the goal of improving players? Is there really a college coach out there who wants his players to not improve over the 3 years they spend in the program? That really doesn't hold any weight IMO.

Coaches want to improve their players to help their program win.  IMO very few know how to develop players for pro ball.
I am not really understanding your point.  Bats, gloves, cleats don't make hitters better, their talent does.

I'll go a step further.  The summer collegiate leagues with wood bats prepared my son for professional baseball.  College was about getting a degree and buying the necessary time.  I know you will disagree with this, TPM and others, and that's okay.  That is just my son's experience.

Spot on Bum.
Last time I checked college was about preparing for a degree.  The baseball is the vehicle to help one get $$ to help pay for the degree.

Prepster, I know you son is a coach a VT. There is a 2013 from our area that is there as a freshman. Really good hitter. Has used wood for last 2 year (since BBCOR has been required) in HS and summer. Last summer he was using the BBCOR because his college coach told him too . Just an intersting tidbit to validate what you are saying

Last question. Why are they so eager to change to pro style balls and so resistant to pro style bats?

Because coaches don't get paid to sponsor balls?  

Because college baseball is not pro ball.  College baseball is all about the long ball.

Changing the balls may help to balance what is missing, HR.

 

Maybe some day your son will get to play the game at the pro level and you understand the difference. 

 

A very good friend of mine who works at a major university told me that last 2 years attendance for games was down, so many schools are moving the plate and the mound out further due to lack of HR production with the new bat.

 

Did you read the article I posted? The NCAA has made a decision to go with this change.

 

FWIW, wood bats are not particularly economical, ask any minor leaguer that has to pay for replacement, they are not supplied by the team.

 

May I ask, what really is your agenda?

 

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear, Doughnutman.

 

The requirement that UNC use only Nike bats at the time of their introduction was one that came from a university-wide contract; one involving all 28 varsity sports. The bat provision, therefore, was but a small part of a much larger contract; from a company that tends to produce high quality equipment and apparel for the vast majority of sports it supplies. The bat's shortcomings were considered anomalous.

 

I hope that it was simply that I failed to explain the context adequately because if you think that a major university is going to jeopardize a major contract of that sort by breaking what amounts to a small portion of it, your philosophical position has taken you into a world that's completely separated from reality.

 

Nothing about the UNC story supports your position in any way. In fact, they ended up endorsing a bat company that produced one of several bats preferred by a number of the players once given the opportunity.

So if a player, besides a pitcher, thinks he has a shot at the pro's he should find another avenue than college? 

 

If a player (and/or his parents) considers himself the next coming of Bryce Harper, then, college probably doesn't need to be considered; at least, not out of high school. However, the "Bryce Harpers" of the sport are literally one in many thousands compared to the universe of high school baseball players in this country.

 

For the large majority of the rest, college would seem to be a path that ought to be explored; especially since only a small fraction of all college players will ever receive a paycheck from a professional baseball club.

 

College baseball has been an important stepping stone to professional baseball for some of its participants (despite the fact that they hit with the infamous metal bat). However, to view it simply as a minor-minor league is to deny the probabilities; as well as the realities of life following one's playing days.

 

 

Pro balls = more offense

Pro bats = less offense

Objective is more offense.

 

I'm with everyone else here... confused by some of your arguments and statements.  Oh well, much more interesting when everyone has different opinions I guess.

Understand first and foremost that baseball programs do not pay for themselves.  So there is always a need to find sponsorships, etc.  Even if all you get is free gear, every bit helps.

 

Be thankful that someone is making this all happen.  Otherwise, your favorite sport would suffer.

 

BTW, if the rule were for wood bats, the situation would be no different.

 

And also, bear in mind the reason why amateur ball originally shifted to metal was to save money.  While one metal bat costs more than one wood bat, wood bats break and have to be replaced repeatedly.  Over the course of a season, metal is cheaper.

 

The shift was sped along by the fire that wiped out a lot of H&B's stock of seasoned lumber in the early 1970's.  That's an historical footnote now, because that stock has had ample time to recover.  But if you outlawed metal, you'd have to phase it in, because due to current levels of market demand, you'd quickly discover that it would take years to develop a sufficient pipeline of seasoned (aged) timber.  You'd have to do something like start at tee ball and work upwards, or start at college and work backwards.

 

I would also think it would be pretty unfair to say to companies who've invested a lot of capital in producing metal bats, "We just decided to vote you out of business overnight."  Remember, they only make those bats because we wanted them.  So think about everyone who'd be affected by these kinds of decisions.

I think the new ball is a great idea... Anything that will provide more exposure and fun would be great in my eyes...

 

I want baseball to prosper, it sickens me that the this great game has become a second-fiddle sport in the eyes of the NCAA... 11.5 scholarships is a freaking joke...

 

I guess their just too busy cracking down on other things:

http://www.myajc.com/news/sports/ncaa-church-league-game-disqualifies-centennial-gr/nbjBR/

Here is my opinion.

This is just another post to discredit coaches, why? 

 

College coaches work so hard and get paid so little. If they are able to make money from camps, or from endorsements then all the more power to them. Do not assume because a coach receives money from a bat company he is taking the largest endorsement to put in his bank account.

 

Prepster's post was accurate, there are some programs that have to accept certain sponsor's equipment whether they want to or not, not sure why that is so hard to understand.  As a college pitcher my son had to use the glove that was given to him, as a starting pitcher, and he was delighted!  He learned to adjust.

 

I often find that people that come here with these types of  issues (questioning coaches ethics) ususlaly have an issue going on with something other than this is just their opinion.

 

My son pitched for years and he had to learn how to overcome the power of the metal bat.  We never complained.  Now batters have to learn to adjust, which they have had to do anyway going from HS ball to college or straight to proball.

 

If I am wrong then tell me so, but please let us know what the real issue is.

 

 

 

College is the #1 stepping stone to professional baseball.  Every year, more college players are drafted than high school players.  There is no better avenue if you live in this country.

 

Most every player drafted has something in common.  Nearly every draft pick comes from a high school or a college.  Both use metal bats, other than a few cases.

 

So even though many of us prefer wood bats, using metal bats hasn't hurt the game. It just causes hitters, and to some degree pitchers, to make an adjustment. It's one of many adjustments a player has to make in order to be successful.

 

All that said, I still would like to see wood used in HS and college.  However, I understand the reasons why that hasn't happened. No doubt, endorsement money is one of those reasons, but it is far from the only reason. The majority of coaches in college and all the high school coaches don't get any endorsement money. 

Personally I'm for switching to wood in some form. What I don't understand is the current situation where the coach (Head Coach only?) is paid by company X for using their bats. I must be missing the logic. The coach doesn't "use" the bats, the players do. Why the coach benefits escapes me. What does make sense to me is that said money goes into the baseball program to directly further benefit the kids.

 

I'm sure I've missed some aspects of the situation so please bring me up to date.

No kidding!

Bolts,

Unbelievable.

 

The big issue is that they could not prove that Manzel took money.  Athletes sign autographs all of the time, I don't think there was anything that said that you can't, even in quantities.  In Omaha, son sat at a table and people lined up for an hour for each team to have them sign all sorts of things, and they did show up and still do on ebay. They also had a session where all type of items were on a table and they all had to sign, balls jerseys, bases, posters, etc.

I can't speak for Doughnutman but I would reverse the question and ask what is the agenda of colleges and high school not to go to wood?  

 

I'm trying to think of another sport that doesn't use the same equipment as the pro's.