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Random comment thrown out by someone in GA in TOTAL jest:

 

"There was a kid that was throwing in the 90's while being in middle school, but that was because his parents held him back in Kindergarten, and he failed 4th grade, and 8th grade...no wonder he's throwing way high for his grade!"

 

This poster was totally joking, his kid is already in college so he's not a hater per see, but it got me wondering. While I do know that holding a kid back in Kindergarten does happen, what about the rest of that sentence?

 

If you fail a grade, let's say 8th grade since it's closer to HS, does that affect recruiting in the 10th or 11th grade?

 

 

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Likely not at all unless the parents/student bring it up.  All colleges see are HS transcripts.  As long as the grades that matter are good, then there shouldn't be any issue or ill effect unless the grades continue to be a problem or there are other issues.

 

No schools that my son has spoken with have ever asked if he had ever failed a grade at any point in his recruiting process (for the record, he hasn't).  So based on that, I don't think they would have any way of knowing a player had failed an elementary or middle/Jr. High school grade unless they specifically sought to find out.

 

Even if a kid had failed an earlier grade and the school learned about it, it would likely be something that they'd ask an explanation for and then focus on the current HS progress and grades.

Last edited by Nuke83

To hold a child back before Kindergarten, then in elementary school and again middle school....there must be some educational/social issues at play.  (I have seen this happen, and these are usually not athletic children).

 

So, this player wants to go to college.  His birthday will be recorded somewhere in the recruiting process (on the baseball resume or college application) and he will be 20-21 and applying to college for the first time.

 

The coach won't think twice having this "man/child" as a freshman, especially if he 1) throws 90, 2) got above 1000 on the SATs, and 3) can hold it together in and out of the classroom.

 

But children that are retained 3 times usually cannot complete the three tasks above.

 

 

By the way,  the biggest single predictor -- by far -- of whether a kid drops out of school is whether the kid has been held back a grade.  A kid held back in one grade, has a 20% greater likelihood of dropping out than a kid never held back.  A kid held back twice has an 80% greater likelihood of dropping out than a kid never held back.   Don't know the numbers for a kid who has been held back three times.  But I'd bet dollars to donuts that not many kids held back three times graduate from high school.  

 

And by the way, to make sure one is compare apples to apples,  pretty much the same numbers hold if you compare kids with equal performance where one kid receives a "courtesy" promotion and the other is held back.   Kids who get courtesy promotions, (but with ongoing educational support once they are promoted) graduate at almost the rate of kids who are never held back and don't receive such promotions.

 

Holding kids back a grade is not a very wise thing to do.  Study after study has borne this out.  The American Association of School Psychologists has come out firmly against the practice.  Yet it continues.

 

Last edited by SluggerDad
Originally Posted by SluggerDad:

By the way,  the biggest single predictor -- by far -- of whether a kid drops out of school is whether the kid has been held back a grade.  A kid held back in one grade, has a 20% greater likelihood of dropping out than a kid never held back.  A kid held back twice has an 80% greater likelihood of dropping out than a kid never held back.   Don't know the numbers for a kid who has been held back three times.  But I'd bet dollars to donuts that not many kids held by three times graduate from high school.  

 

And by the way, to make sure one is compare apples to apples,  pretty much the same numbers hold if you compare kids with equal performance where one kid receives a "courtesy" promotion and the other is held back.   Kids who get courtesy promotions, (but with ongoing educational support once they are promoted) graduate at almost the rate of kids who are never held back and don't receive such promotions.

 

Holding kids back a grade is not a very wise thing to do.  Study after study has borne this out.  The American Association of School Psychologists has come out firmly against the practice.  Yet it continues.

 

A new report just came out that shows Graduation rates in Georgia have recently improved by over 6%!!!!  Yup, 78.8% graduate now!

 

I'm not trying to argue to pro's or con's of intentionally holding a kid back.  My query was based on my brain glitching...what if a kid did fail 8th grade due to a home-life situation or an undiscovered learning disability, or something else that derailed the kid for a bit but then he was able to repeat the grade and get back on course. The idea just got me wondering about the outcome if a college coach asked for transcripts how far did they go back, but that was answered.

 

Twist on the question...what if the kid DOES throw 90 but repeated 10th grade but did still graduate with a 2.3 GPA.  How does THAT affect college recruitment?

Originally Posted by CaCO3Girl:

 

Twist on the question...what if the kid DOES throw 90 but repeated 10th grade but did still graduate with a 2.3 GPA.  How does THAT affect college recruitment?

A student will not repeat an entire grade, but usually will retake the classes he didn't pass in 10th grade.  He can do this the next academic year, or in summer school if the classes are offered.  A 2.3 is a B-/C+ student.  Not great, but will get into some colleges.

 

I realized in my post above I made an error, but worth noting...

VHSL (Virginia High School League) has an age limit for playing in high school, which is 19 I believe, which will eliminate players that have repeated more than one grade playing on their high school team.  Most HS travel teams want their kids playing HS ball.

Originally Posted by keewart:
Originally Posted by CaCO3Girl:

 

Twist on the question...what if the kid DOES throw 90 but repeated 10th grade but did still graduate with a 2.3 GPA.  How does THAT affect college recruitment?

A student will not repeat an entire grade, but usually will retake the classes he didn't pass in 10th grade.  He can do this the next academic year, or in summer school if the classes are offered.  A 2.3 is a B-/C+ student.  Not great, but will get into some colleges.

 

 

People are so focused on the admissions rate race at the elite colleges and universities -- where you need a 4.x just to be competitive -- that they fail to appreciate the vast landscape of colleges and universities out there.   There almost certainly  is a college for that B- student somewhere -- especially if that student improved over the course of his/her HS career,  has decent test scores, and can get some teacher to write a strong letter attesting to his/her motivation and maturity. 

 

Last edited by SluggerDad

I don't know if this is true in every state. In most states public school athletes become ineligible on their twentieth birthday. Or if they turn twenty anytime during the current school year. This would be a kid who stayed back twice or starts late and stayed back once. Typically kids turn eighteen senior year or months after.

Originally Posted by RJM:

I don't know if this is true in every state. In most states public school athletes become ineligible on their twentieth birthday. Or if they turn twenty anytime during the current school year. This would be a kid who stayed back twice or starts late and stayed back once. Typically kids turn eighteen senior year or months after.

The Florida max used to be anyone 19 years and 9 months on Sept 1st for participatition all year. I remember a 20 year old (man) winning a high school wrestling title (3A) about 10 years ago. I think the max is now 19 years and 0 months on Sept 1st.

 

Originally Posted by CaCO3Girl:
 

 

Twist on the question...what if the kid DOES throw 90 but repeated 10th grade but did still graduate with a 2.3 GPA.  How does THAT affect college recruitment?

 More along the same lines as SluggerDad's post, the recruit becomes a huge risk for the Coach and the program. 

 

Put yourself in the Coaches shoes....does he want to take on this risk....what is the reward for taking on this risk.   Can he find a similar talent that is not nearly as risky?  In the thread example, can I find a 90 mph pitcher who graduated with a 2.5 who did not repeat a grade.  These are the type of decisions people make everyday in hiring & business.  No different in my mind..  College baseball recruiting is the same thought process....make it easier for the decision maker and make him look good to his boss. 

How about a kid that has grade and attendance issues his junior year and was ineligible to play in the Spring as a junior? Basically failed his junior year

 

He is now in his Senior year but is not on schedule to graduate, but he is back on track with grades and attendance, so he will be eligible to play this season.

 

I'm pretty sure he can't come back for a 5th year to get 4 years of playing in. Oh yeah, 6'4" 90+.

Does it affect recruiting, of course it does, a senior graduating at 19 with not so great test scores and not so great grades tells a coach there is a problem somewhere.

Programs want to see their athletes graduate, they will do whatever they can because it affects their overall performance as a program. 

College baseball really doesn't have enough scholarships to take those chances, that is what JUCO are for!

Originally Posted by #1 Assistant Coach:

My understanding is you must turn 19, on or after September 1st, of your senior year to be able to compete in most HS athletic conferences. 

 

Some prep school conferences (read: "factories") have no age limits and have no problem with a 20 year old HS senior as long as he can "ball."  As in basketball.

You're correct that NFHS schools rule states:

 

AGE: A student who becomes 19 before September 1 shall be ineligible for interscholastic competition. (NOTE: A student who becomes 19 on or after September 1 shall remain eligible for the entire school year.)

 

However each state has the leeway to be more or less restrictive.  For example, Georgia is less restrictive with a cutoff date of May 1 instead of September 1, while Alabama is more restrictive with a cutoff date of August 1.

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