Failing out of school and off the team

Players on son's team were "vetted" pretty well with several pre-reads and character "checks" (staying on campus several times).  This was at a high academic school.

That being said, several players were "off the team" for other reasons:  One may have been "having too much fun", but it was his lack of judgement by hitting a police officer (and subsequent overnight or two in jail) that got him kicked off the team.  Another got arrested for a stupid stunt...off the team for the season.

Lack of grades were not an issue.  There is an NCAA GPA eligibility minimum, and the school had their higher minimum.  It was the one thing I told keewartson when he went off to school:  I don't care about a high GPA, just stay eligible!

However, he had some friends go to a larger school and partied it up pretty well.  They both graduated on time, but were off the team after their freshman year.  Did their partying contribute to their "non performance" or lack of playing time?  Who knows.

Francis - This is a tough one, because when you are on the outside you don't know specific details.  However, as an outsider, you can't help but to observe and scratch your head every so often.  From my experience, there were 3 recruits from my son's travel ball team that probably bit off more than they could chew in terms of academic level.  One of them (smart kid and great baseball player)  was extremely homesick when he got to a  D1 P5 school .   He did poorly academically and ended up transferring out.   He was very reliant on his family for support.    The other two travel players I had concerns over at the time due to maturity, work ethic and smoking weed in their car before a showcase.    I did not know them well, but it was fairly evident what they were all about with their actions and words.  They ended up leaving a D1 mid-major after their first semester.

Maturity and time management become HUGE as a freshmen college athlete.   I had huge time management concerns with my oldest son playing college baseball and studying engineering.  We did our best to address those concerns during the recruiting process, and then with his college selection.  Did we know specifics?  Not really.  However, it was top of mind with our questions.   Everybody knows college is a huge adjustment, and education isn't cheap.   The rubber has to hit the road at some time....freshman year for a college athlete is that time.

As far as "root cause" and "having too much fun", I think that goes back to maturity and time management.   I look it this way, college athletes are given a specific baseball and academic margin of error to be successful.  Tutors, study halls, etc, etc....are advantages that regular students don't normally get.    It is up to the recruit to take advantage of his situation.

Just my experience....

Francis;

yesterday, I attended my 1st HS Baseball game with two of my friends - Pro Scouts.

They traveled over 400 miles to watch a LHP throw 2 innings. After two innings they will travel 70 miles to observe a "HITTER' and then at 5 PM to view another HS pitcher.

* Your example is of a player, who has "NO respect" for the game. He is a "pretender" and it is "obvious" when he departs from his car in the parking lot. The College Coach did not do his "homework".

Bob

I could name this as a Francis question in three notes.

“Water Cooler” Francis with another what if scenario.  Do you sit around and think up this stuff or are you part of a sewing circle?  

Just messing with you, man.  But seriously, these are college students we’re talking about.  Yes, *newsflash* sometimes college students party too much and drop out.

My son almost failed to maintain his 50% academic portion. He had a little too much fun freshman fall and not enough studying. He got a 2.7. He needed a 3.3 the spring semester to retain the ride.

I scared him by telling him he would be coming home if he lost the 50%. He got a 3.5 in the spring. I informed him it was where the bar now sat.

RJM - I had a similar conversation with my son just prior to him leaving in the fall for his freshman year. “If you do something to lose that academic scholarship, I’m not gonna make up that difference.  You’ll be on your own and asking ‘do you want fries with that?’ all summer, instead of playing in a college summer league.”

@3and2Fastball posted:

“Water Cooler” Francis with another what if scenario.  Do you sit around and think up this stuff or are you part of a sewing circle?  

Just messing with you, man.  But seriously, these are college students we’re talking about.  Yes, *newsflash* sometimes college students party too much and drop out.

I went to college. Granted that was like 40 years ago. None of my friends at college failed out. A few did leave to take jobs at places like the phone company or gas company because they weren't crazy about school and wanted to work instead. Of my HS friends who went to college, only one failed out. Partied too hard, for sure. He later went to a different school and graduated. But none were baseball players. So, we had more time for fun and school. I would think athletes fail out more because it's harder to find time for school work.

My first college roommate chose the triangle of death. Engineering major - baseball - rooming with me.

He was academically ineligible soph year. His father told him baseball was over, he would commute from home and his father (an engineer) would review his homework every night.

@Francis7 posted:

I went to college. Granted that was like 40 years ago. None of my friends at college failed out. A few did leave to take jobs at places like the phone company or gas company because they weren't crazy about school and wanted to work instead. Of my HS friends who went to college, only one failed out. Partied too hard, for sure. He later went to a different school and graduated. But none were baseball players. So, we had more time for fun and school. I would think athletes fail out more because it's harder to find time for school work.

I believe athletes have a higher stay in school/transfer in good standing rate because of eligibility requirements, the supervision and direction they receive.

63.8% of college students who enroll in bachelor's programs at age 18 years or younger graduate within 5 years. 59.9% of those who enroll in bachelor's programs at age 19 years graduate within 5 years. 29.4% of 20- to 23-year-olds who enroll in bachelor's programs graduate within 5 years.

educationdata.org (2021)

Not sure if it was mentioned but it will depend on the school where they are playing.  College for most consists of juggling their social and academic time management.  For an Student-Athlete their college consists of social, academics and their sport.  My 2015 while playing at a HA program said he only had time for 2 of the 3 while in season.  If you want to succeed his suggestion is academics and the sport!

Maybe its due to Covid, but from what I can tell the college kids of today do MUCH less partying than their parents did. 

@3and2Fastball posted:

RJM - I had a similar conversation with my son just prior to him leaving in the fall for his freshman year. “If you do something to lose that academic scholarship, I’m not gonna make up that difference.  You’ll be on your own and asking ‘do you want fries with that?’ all summer, instead of playing in a college summer league.”

Had exact same conversation with my 2020. Gets more academically than athletically. NCAA rules dictate he needs to maintain a 3.0 to qualify for both.

I believe there are more reasons for kids washing out of baseball (sports) at the college level than we can begin to discuss here. Here are some of the common things I’ve seen in the baseball eco system.

It’s the very rare freshman that sees much meaningful field time in the better juco’s and D1’s. It’s humbling and an ego buster for most players and parents (as I’ve said before, my son got almost no field time as a freshman, and he’s in pro ball). I specifically knew 5 HS stud ballplayers that should have had good college careers that didn’t react well to bench time. The coaching staff didn’t react well to ill placed ego and entitlement (player or parent) either.

I can think of several kids that just made bad choices with their newfound freedom. Choices that eliminated their baseball opportunity. Some of these choices were during senior HS year, but most happened once away from home. I believe that from 13 to 18 we parents are transitioning from a position of authority to a position of influence. I believe how we manage that transition can impact college freshman choices. Going from very controlled, to uncontrolled can help create bad choices.

College baseball is more than a fulltime job at the juco and D1 level. Any serious baseball program will let the athletes know if they want that lifestyle in a hurry. There were quite a few at the juco level that left before there was enough runway to determine who was going to make the squad – included a former travel ball teammate of my son.

I’ve never seen any starter in juco or D1 become ineligible or quit due to academic rigors. However, unless a kid is exceptionally gifted, the majors for student athletes at juco’s and D1’s are not overly taxing. It’s still a fulltime job and school – so it can be overwhelming. Both the juco and D1 my son experienced monitored their athletes, so no lack of visibility and help was coming even if not welcomed. A kid can still flameout due to grades, but from my experience there’s usually a safety net for this one.

@K9 posted:

Maybe its due to Covid, but from what I can tell the college kids of today do MUCH less partying than their parents did.

So many kids have 80% of their social life on the phone and via apps today. In my day, if you wanted to meet people, you had to go places - like parties - and do something to meet people.

Some girl recently "DM'ed" my son in Snapchat the other day at random, same age (18) as him but goes to a private school. She found him trolling the app. She literally lives around the corner from us. Like 6 houses away. We've lived here his whole life and never knew she existed until she DMed him.

Sometimes it's partying, sometimes it's laziness, sometimes it's not going to class, sometimes it's girls, having too much fun, maybe his parents were overbearing in HS and the kid went a little overboard with no rules, immaturity, etc.

Other times it can be a kid is just going thru a hard time and doesn't have a great support system. Difficulty adjusting, depression, etc. Maybe the kid couldn't balance a sport and school, or bit off more than he could chew in a major or course load. Maybe college was never for him.

To call the kid a pretender or a failure is a bit dramatic. Kid is 18 or 19, he can move onto to another school and start over, it really isn't the end of the world. If there was a scholarship involved it may be costly, but enrolling in a juco is probably cheaper than any baseball scholarship would've been anyway.

One of the neighbors "failed out" of a school a long way from home with a much different culture. He said he had a hard time making friends and put off his schoolwork to try and socialize more and find a group of people to hang with. He's not stupid, just had his priorities mixed up. Did his two years at the local juco and is graduating in May with a job on wall st waiting for him this summer. He's fine. Sky was never falling.

How often does it happen? Often. It happens more with regular students than athletes I can tell you that much.

@PABaseball posted:

Other times it can be a kid is just going thru a hard time and doesn't have a great support system. Difficulty adjusting, depression, etc. Maybe the kid couldn't balance a sport and school, or bit off more than he could chew in a major or course load. Maybe college was never for him.

:

How often does it happen? Often. It happens more with regular students than athletes I can tell you that much.

This.