Fall Roster sizes

I am not sure of the size at our JUCO, but it is comprised of mostly local kids and I am sure there is around 50-60 at season start. Most will not make it and a core of 15 actually play much. Why? Why not?, a local kid thinks he has a chance so he comes out no risk to him or the program...

The numerical analysis will always turn heads but in the end, it might not mean anything. BOF is probably right, some kids just want a chance no matter the odds. Nonetheless, one kid might have ten other kids trying out at his position and that doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme when he is better than the other nine. On the other hand, if you find yourself playing behind "one" All-American, and you really do not play another position, that could be a real problem.

Even if the rosters are limited to some number like 35, the trick is not to be the 35th kid on the roster. There are only 9 hitting positions and probably about 1/2 dozen pitching positions available. The absolute numbers do not change that equation imho.

50 something out yesterday for the first practice of 08Son CA JUCO. First cut will be next week down to 35 or so. Being a CA Juco means that there are no scholarships and only minimal recruiting. There are just that many kids who want to keep playing.

Son's Ca JUCO has had 45 players show up the first day. 18-20 positions are filled from returning or recruited. 7-8 open positions on the roster as walk-ons but coach does keep a list of players that don't make the team just in case some roster players are injured or don't make grades. He loses 3-4 players to grades each year. The freshmen come in thinking that because they were recruited, they will get a free pass. They get their first real world lesson.

Am hearing that this is the situation at many D1's as well. To me, the flaw in the new NCAA regulations is that the 35 max roster size doesn't have to be set until January or February. Having 50 or 60 players duke it out in the fall may be great for the coaches, but it creates a lot of hardship and uncertainty for players who may be cut -- not to mention credits that may be lost when cut players end up transferring out. IMHO, there is enough uncertainty just knowing whether you will be a starter or not come February.

Hello;

This fall I will observe SSU with 90 players, including 11 Division ! "drop downs".

"the competition will be intense".

Bob Williams

quote:

Originally posted by Bob Williams:

Hello;

This fall I will observe SSU with 90 players, including 11 Division ! "drop downs".

"the competition will be intense".

Bob Williams

90?!

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Bob!...Isn't 90 a LOW # for SSU?...The number 150 is often thrown around in rumor about the SSU program....

Observations...

- With more "cuts" from existing DI rosters, there are more DI drop downs than ever. I think this may be reflected in the SUU DI dropdown #, and I am certainly hearing about more DI drops downs than ever at the JC's in CA.

- Son easily had 70+ each year at Ca JC.

- I do believe that the "rules" have changed in this respect with more players walking on. I also believe that the NCAA wants/apprevciates that kind of competition at the DI's...gives non-scholarship kids "a chance".

- Rumor at one DI among the players is that there are more kids walking on for baseball than football.

- I think the big question at any level is do the players understand what they are getting themselevs into...or are they fooled. Eyes open? Eyes closed?

44
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At one point at Sonoma State 150 players tried out!! But, obviously they were not all recruited.

I have a former player from my HS team showing up at a mid-level NAIA school. Coach has never seen him play, ever, and no letter of recommendation from me was ever asked for, but he has been given a "preferred walk-on" status so he believes he has made the team and has been reporting this to all his friends. He's back in the States now so I have no more contact with him.

Is this kid looking at a big-time wake-up call or what?

quote:

Originally posted by CaBB:
At one point at Sonoma State 150 players tried out!! But, obviously they were not all recruited.

I would not be so sure that close to that number had been talked to and was told come on down.....

We have about 50 - 75 kids come out at our CA JC. Some are invited, some are drop downs or drop sideways from another JC, some just want to give it the old college try!
When my son was "recruited" or "invited" he was given no sure roster spot. Coaches were very clear that they never know what is going to happen in the fall. The only guarantee was that he would get a shot at making the team just like everyone else.
I think some kids and parents take this to mean - because I have been spoken to "we'd sure like to see you at _____ next season" that they are on the team for sure.
At the JC, I am sure this happens a lot.
When you get into a 4- year school situation, then things are a little stickier.I have always read here that in that situation a scholarship is the closest thing you can get to a promised spot.
I think it is important to take a hard look at where you might go and be ready to accept that you are or are not on the team. If you must be on a baseball team, and there is no dollar commitment there, then perhaps you need to find a different school.
Easy to say - hard to do.

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quote:

Originally posted by Krakatoa:
I have a former player from my HS team showing up at a mid-level NAIA school. Coach has never seen him play, ever, and no letter of recommendation from me was ever asked for, but he has been given a "preferred walk-on" status so he believes he has made the team and has been reporting this to all his friends. He's back in the States now so I have no more contact with him.

Is this kid looking at a big-time wake-up call or what?

Goos question. We've been through four walk on college situations now of varying degrees...and still making mistakes and learning...some Observations/suggestions...

There is a risk, there is stress involved... but it can be minimized/calculated.

To minimize the risk...

- It is never good to tempt the baseball Gods. The minute that you start to celebrate and chortle...you open yourself up. Nothing is cut in stone, even the stuff that is. Stuff happens. Keep your nose to the grindstone. When it comes to the baseball Gods...work is better than Whooppee.

- In our experience a "preferred/recruited walk on" is a releative term/loaded word. It's meaning and ramifications need to be nailed down between coach and recruit BEFORE arrival if at all possible.

- If at all possible get seen and evalauated by the coaching staff BEFORE tryout's. You want them to know exactly what you bring. Often schools will be happy to give you a honest picture/assessment. If at all possible you do not want to be a warm not a "cold" walk on.

- Some of the the questions to be asked before you arrive: WHY...do you want me here? WHERE...do I fit into your plan's and WHY? GIVE...me an assessment of my game? IS...this a roster spot? IF...not, then how many guys will I have to beat out at my position? HOW...many guys are there at tryou'ts? HOW...many roster spots are available? WHAT...is the process? HOW...many guys are currently on your roster/starters have been walk on's?

- If possible ask these questions face to face. Frankly I want to look into the coaches eyes when I ask them. I want to not only hear, but feel and see his responses. Nothing tangible there but a whole bunch of important intangibles.

- As much as it is possible depending upon schools/situations, roster read. How many open roster spots? Who are the public recruits and what do they bring?

- Clearly understand your own situation. The ramifications of a freshman walk on are much, much different than the ramifcations of a Junior walk on.

- Have plan B and Plan C....no matter how good the walk on looks.

- Once you make a decision and have looked at all the variables...have confidence in your ability, in your knowledge, in your chances. Remember above all that this is an opportunity.

- BRING IT. Despite the risk, leave it on the field. Come every day ready to show what you have...what you can do...and just as importantly, who you are. Come early, stay late. Ask for help. It is often the samll things the attitude, the way you act, how you react to the stress of a walk on, that offer differences between what may appear to the caoching staff to be very similar players.

44
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observer44 -

observer44 -

The only think I would add to Observer's fine post is that for some of the more expensive D1 colleges, recruited walk ons are guaranteed roster spots.

Pepperdine, for instance. Coach Rodriguez says that when he recruits a kid they try to put the best package together for him, and quite often the funds available from financial aid are greater than a normal level of baseball $$. So they apply for financial aid rather than sign an LOI.

That, technically, makes the kid a walk-on, but the roster spot is guaranteed. Rodriguez says that he makes absolutely no distinction between players who are there on scholarship and those on financial aid when it comes to playing time issues.

I'm guessing this is probably true only at the higher cost colleges where it wouldn't be unusual for a financial aid package to exceed 33% of the cost of attendance.

quote:

- BRING IT. Despite the risk, leave it on the field. Come every day ready to show what you have...what you can do...and just as importantly, who you are. Come early, stay late. Ask for help. It is often the samll things the attitude, the way you act, how you react to the stress of a walk on, that offer differences between what may appear to the caoching staff to be very similar players.

Great advice and maybe we can expound on it a bit.

With 60 or 70 kids trying out as has been mentioned, it may not always be possible to catch the coach's eye with baseball skills alone. For example, if five shortstops are trying out, there are only so many ground balls they are going to let each kid field and only so many practice game opportunities for each kid. You may get 10 balls hit to you, field all of them cleanly, make solid throws and still not really stand out over someone who the coach felt going in was going to be his starter in the first place.

Here are a couple of other ways I can think of to stand out in a crowd:

First to practice, last to leave is always a good way to get noticed as ob44 suggested above. Doing any team dirty work like shagging balls or helping with field and equipment.

Being a good teammate and encouraging other players.

Diving for balls even in practice.

#1 tip - be the best in shape. Probably the easiest way to get noticed is be the first one to cross the finish line in every running drill. No small task indeed but for someone with a mission and a plan, it will put you on the coach's radar screen. Apply these same principles in the weight room. Show up to the first practice with 5 or 10 lbs more muscle than the last time the coach laid eyes on you. Continue your long toss program so that the next time the coach sees you, you have a stronger arm. Continue with your speed training and show up quicker to your first practice. The next level is all about bigger, stronger, faster - no matter what your body type.

Continue to practice even when the coaches are not watching.

Make sure you study your butt off and get excellent grades.

Get plenty of rest and don't be afraid to forgoe some of the fun distractions in college while you pursue your dream.

Let your actions (not words) on and off the field do ALL your talking for you.

Maybe others can add to my list....

quote:

Get plenty of rest and don't be afraid to forgoe some of the fun distractions in college while you pursue your dream.

if it's your dream, put your all into it.

you only get 4 yrs to play college ball, regrets last a lifetime.

What??? You only get 4 years of College!!!

skipper
where did you get my state pen picture, i mean pen state.

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He got it at the same place I got your Yell King picture.






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Excellent advice from experienced posters that have been around the block a few times. Parents with sons trying to make a team or freshmen should read this carefully several times.

No, actually all these great tips are for ALL returning and new players. Every year is a new adventure for these players to work harder and earn a starting spot.

In our small circle of friends/baseball players we have heard of many players being released this last year. Won't mention school names but this is what we know 1st hand:

CA state U- released 7 players at end of last season, some on scholarship, some walk-0ns.

CA state U- released all 7 walk-ons. Told they weren't in plans for next season.

University of CA- released 9 players for a variety of reasons. Some rising jrs and seniors. Some for grades, some for other issues.

Private school in CA- calls player during summer ball and tells him his scholly wont' be renewed for next year. Player does get it worked out and will be @ this school next year.

Pac 10 school- released player on a large scholarship at end of season for behavior issues from previous summer?????

On one hand, it's so unfair that the players are at the whim of the coaches and yet I know the programs are pushed to win. With the fact that now a D1 player would have to sit to transfer, it seems the coaches have the upper hand in all of this.

So, it's wise to really research the history of the program, how they recruit, and if recruits stay to graduate. But I also think coaches need to recruit better and smarter so they know the players better that they are selecting for their program.

Observer '44 nailed it. Don't tempt the baseball gods. Be humble about the opportunity offered your son and realize that they will have to work harder than they ever have in their life to be successful in college.

Great comments!

Yes, SSU has a larger group out for the 1st few weeks and then the comparisons of talent begin to self eliminate the players.

Since I live 10 minutes from SSU and enjoy watching the coaches instruct and talking with pro scouts, I would recommend to the hitters to take extra BP on the weekends when I am observing my son coaching the Montgomery HS "Fall League" team.

If I see "bat speed", I then discuss with the coaches the specific player whom I noticed.

Bob Williams

In the scenario I alluded to, I am disturbed by it all because the player in question most likely would not have been a starter on most HS teams back home and wouldn't have even made roster at better programs. To hear that he is telling everyone he's now "preferred" and will be playing college baseball rankles me and points out that the student has not looked into what is really being stated.

Knowing how hard most players have to work to get onto any college team, to have a mediocre high school player of questionable work ethic and behavior, and without being seen at all, go into a school with such assumptions based on the inexplicable "preferred walk-on" status just gets under my skin.

I wish I could be a fly in the dugout at the first try-out practice.

Krak, that kids sounds like the same scenario here at home.

A kid (senior this year) has tried out for the high school JV and Varsity every year. Just does not have the skills to play. I've seen him during tryouts and honestly agree with the Coach. A decent football player and the Coach implored him to be the best on the football he could.

Fastforward to this summer. His dad owns a small business here in town and is good friends (golf partners) with a local competitive D2 school. Makes regular annual donations to the program. His son goes for a tryout this summer and was just told that he made the team! Was told that he would start out being a bullpen catcher, blah, blah, blah. I liked to have pooped in my pants when I heard this.

Unbelievable. But I guess money does buy happiness afterall, huh? LOL

Found info regarding fall roster sizes at a few D1's:

Univ. of Houston has 34

Rice has 39

TCU has 38, including 2 who were drafted in June and expected to sign (Matt Purke & Josh Elander)

Texas Tech - "The 19 newcomers (that include five walk-ons) will join forces with 22 returning veterans and all will compete for a total of 35 roster spots that will be available once the Red Raiders open up the 2010 season on Feb. 19."

OU - "The Sooners return 15 letterwinners overall from the 2009 team that earned the nation's No. 7 seed and hosted the Norman Regional with a 43-20 overall mark and a second place finish in the Big 12 (17-10).....The returners will be joined by a group of 19 newcomers competing for playing time."

Arizona State has 40

Georgia has 34