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74 replies

Finding a place to play college ball

infielddadinfielddad10,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by RYNO:
My son is 5'9 OF/RHP in last 7 innings that he took the mound he threw against some of the best high school talent in country, here is the results.

2 innings at NAIA inter-squad scrimage during an official visit 0 RUNS, 0 HITS 1 HBP
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2 innings at PG World Wood Bat in Jupiter (against Atlanta Bluejays Squad)0 RUNS, 1 HIT, 1 HBP

Roster
Players:
Name Position Height Weight Bats Throws Grad HighSchool
Adams, Tyler MIF 5-9 150 L R 2009 Sprayberry
Austin, Jay OF P 6-0 175 L L 2008 North Atlanta
Beckham, Tim SS 6-2 200 R R 2008 Griffin
Blakey, Corbin MIF 5-11 170 R R 2009 Centennial
Brewer, Blake P 6-6 190 R R 2008 Sandy Creek
Burke, Antonio OF 6-1 190 R R 2008 Lithia Springs
Ceci, Michael P OF 6-4 195 R L 2008 Harrison
Enser, Aaron P 5-9 150 R R 2009 Sprayberry
Flamm, Elliot MIF 5-9 135 R R 2008 Pope
Frost, Ron P 6-3 195 R L 2009 North Atlanta
Gary, Harrison OF 6-1 155 R R 2008 Dutchtown
Glenn, Alex OF 5-11 170 L L 2009 Henry County
Goetz, Justin P 6-0 170 R R 2009 Peachtree Ridge
Haddock, Scott MIF 6-0 180 R R 2008 Harrison
Hahlbohn, Nick 3B 6-2 170 R R 2010 Hill Grove
Hahlbohn, Scott P 6-8 260 R R 2008 Hill Grove
Hartigan, Kevin MIF 3B 5-10 160 L R 2009 Centennial
Jerrigan, Jay 1B 6-2 230 R R 2009 North Atlanta
Kerins, T.J. P 6-1 185 R R 2008 Walton
Lusted, C.J. C P 6-1 185 L R 2008 Centennial
Mann, Jamel P 6-3 206 R R 2008 Henry County
Marshall, Ben P 5-11 175 R R 2008 Loganville
Mitzel, Ryan OF 6-0 195 R R 2008 Walton
Moore, Stephen SS P 6-1 160 R R 2010 The Walker School
Moreland, Draveon C 5-10 215 R R 2009 Columbia High School
Mylenbusch, Chris P 6-4 200 R R 2008 Harrison
Rainge, Anthony 3B 6-2 210 S R 2008 Miller Grove
Roberts, Tyler C 1B 6-1 210 R R 2009 Jones County High School
Smalls, William MIF OF 5-8 170 R R 2008 North Atlanta
Smith , Kevin C 5-11 155 L R 2008 St. Francis
Stokes, Mykal OF 6-3 185 S R 2008

----------------------------------------------------

3 innings at recent PG World Showcase in Ft Myers against a stacked (steel team) he gave up 0 runs, 0 hits, 2 HBP pitching 7-8-9 to preserve the win

STEEL TEAM ROSTER
Kyle Allen IMG Academy-Pendleton Riverview, FL
Greg Densem Northview Heights Toronto, ON
Patton Eagle Fort Worth Country Day Fort Worth, TX
Eddie Young Christian El Cajon, CA
Bryan Cooper Stamford Stamford, CT
Gregory Fisk Irvington Irvington, NY
Kevin Gottlieb Palm Beach Gardens Palm Beach Gardens, FL
Peter O'Brien Braddock Miami Gardens, FL
Nicholas Purdy St Mary's Grafton, ON
Alex Ramon Coral Gables Miami, FL
Adam Lopez Stafford Fredricksburg, VA
Tyler Wilson Armuchee Rome, GA
Richard Seaton Birchmount Park Collegiate Inst. Scarborough, ON
Jordan Glover Lawrence Park Collegiate Toronto, ON
Tristan Beadle Pickering Ajax, ON
Allan O'Neal Grand Street Campus Queens, NY

----------------------------------------------------
ALL BATTERS HBP ON INSIDE CURVE BALLS BATTERS DID THERE JOBS SOME LEANED IN.
----------------------------------------------------

He never threw harder than A 82 fastball yet changed speeds with a strong 12-6 CURVE and a circle change. What he demonstrated was how to pich black to black up and down.

I am so tired off being told that the velocity isn't high enough. Got a call from Strong D2 coach who said he reviewed Ryan pitching and said he was extermely impressed and that Ryan throws a heavy ball that sinks real well. He also said that he felt that with some small mechanical changes he felt Ryan could increase velocity 5-6 mph and requested that we film Ryan from third, second, and from home (close-up on Ryan) so he could evaluate the film, He stated with Ryan's off speed pitches being so good that adding just 5 mph would make Ryan an opposing pitcher with alot of upside at all levels.

Now to me that is someone who gets it, looking at the big piture and how to build and improve on what the player already is capable of. Most high school pitchers are not even in a strong training program, yet some of these guys who claim to be coaches right away look at size and arm strength. I was told by a scout that Ryan can flat out play and has a major league 12-6 curve ball right now but unless he throws 90 at his height no-one will take him serious and that no one will recommend him based on height as a pitcher to their organization. The risk as a scout was to great. To me thats weak.

As far as a blanket statement that pitchers need to throw 90 to have a chance at next level is ridiculous. Getting outs and not give up runs is the recipe that should decide whether you can pitch or not.
Bottom Line Outs, Outs, Outs


RYNO, while I agree with everything you posted, for high school seniors of the physical size of your son, and mine, I think your views are just incomplete.
For a pitcher, college coaches have to project whether your son can get "outs, outs outs" but more importantly, whether he can do it the second time through the lineup, and after he has played 40 or so games, is fatigued, and cannot find the adrenaline the pumped through his body in a showcase of the type you describe.
They are projecting whether he can get outs after college hitters have seen all of his pitches and then begin to make the adjustments that good college hitters do, and high school players don't.
They are projecting that if there are mechanical adjustments he can make to add 5-6mph on his velocity, can he do it, and will he have command and be effective when/if he does.
From your perspective, you have to judge whether the coach who has those views can teach them effectively and where your son might be if he doesn't. In effect, is that coach saying your son can play here, but he can't if he doesn't make the adjustments in a way where he continues to get "outs, outs, outs" afterwards.
So, while I agree it is about "outs, outs, outs," in college and in projecting players like your son, our son, and many others, the coaches also need to project whether you can get those in the 4th, 5th and 6th, when college hitters make adjustments and can gain advantages. They need to project can you get them during the mental and physical challenges of a college season, with the rigors of a college education and travel.
In your situation, with your player and many high school seniors like him, the college recruiting process, from our experience and years of watching since then, is much more about whether you can get those "outs, outs, outs" when hitters know what you throw, when you throw it, and when arm fatigue combine with physical/emotional strain to replace adrenaline.
Again,I want to reiterate I don't for a minute believe your views are wrong. Just have a sense that with more experience, they seem, to me at least, to be incomplete.
Last edited by infielddad
B BobbleheadDoll5,000+ posts
I think what we are talking about is opportunity. Coaches at all levels make mistakes. You won't know until given the chance. As I said there is nothing wrong with being a bull pen pitcher. People talk about bull pen as somethying less than a starter. My son loves the closing role and did well as a closer. It allows you to get in there and throw your best stuf. Starters have to pace themselves and it is a different mind set.
maybe his son won't be a starter who knows and who cares if he comes out of the pen. My son did that his 1st year and sometimes last year. This year they want him to start but who knows what will happen. He just wants a more important role which he got last year.
I am amazed at how much the teams change year to year and a player may have to wait his turn for the opportunity. I know my son will be happy either way.
rz1rz15,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by TPM:
Bottom line if you want to go to college and baseball is your top priority, you go to play where those that believe in you will give you teh opportunity (not a half azz one but a good one).


If you go to school with baseball as your top priority chances are you are not going to make it in school and that is a statistical fact. There are very very few schools that will put up with that mindset and trust me it will become evident where your priorities lie. We use the phrase "good fit" so often on this site and that should be the phrase parents of recruits should emphasize to their players.

Five years ago we lived by the words "good fit", reality, and diploma. My son turned down those power schools in favor of a good fit at a "lowly mid-major", he understood the MLB reality and if he had the tools "they would come", and after 4 years of college he is 1 class from a diploma with a double major. Looking back I think that he would say that he is most proud that he did not buy into the "power school" sales pitch and made the decision on what was best for him.

Dreams are not fulfilled unless they are accompanied by hard work and the concept of reality.
Last edited by rz1
OLDSLUGGER8OLDSLUGGER81,000+ posts
Approximately 120,000 high school varsity seniors graduate each year from high school.

Approximately 6000 college roster spots open up each season. That means 95 % of high school kids who played and graduated are basically done with baseball from a college and pro standpoint.

Would everyone agree the 5% who continue on are privileged.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
Infielddad,

Taking all of the discussions going on in the past week about size, weight, what makes a D1 player, what makes a pro playr, that is the best explanation that I have ever read.

I am just not understanding why this is so hard to understand. I agree with your last paragraph completely, unless you have experienced it, it's hard to understand. Most programs do not have the budget to have 16,17 arms on the bench, they need pitchers who can get out, out, outs, in the 1st as well as the 7th. If they can afford it, they want relievers who can go in at anytime, every few days, and maybe a pitcher who closes every game. They want durable guys who need adjustments to make them even more durable. That's it in a nutshell and that is the phylosophy that exists in college baseball and proball.

Ryno,
Notice the scrutiny that college coach is putting your son through? If he really beleived in him and he had what they needed he would have made an offer. Don't take that personally. That's the same as a college recruiter from a large D1 telling your son he needs to get bigger. As far as the scout, you may consider that weak, but that's his job, he's telling you like it is.
Something else I have heard lately, parents get upset that a college coach doesn't give them money to play, but have no qualms about their son being drafted and signed for a plane ticket. This makes no sense to me, can someone explain?
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
BHD,
Most college pitchers begin their career as relievers, very few as starters, and very few college pitchers actually become starters. The good pitching coach works with each to develop their ability and they all havea chance to compete for a role. He himself very rarely knows who will end up in the starting role. And I do beleive that good college coaches recruit this way, they look at all pitchers as potential starters, with everyone eventually falling into a role. I think that is why so many good pitchers feel left out in the cold when not received well at THEIR college choice.
rz,
I agree with your post, but it doesn't seem your example is important to many (not necessarily here). Choice for school baseball first, achool second.

Dribbler,
I agree with TR...WRONG.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
Ryno,
As an example, your post demonstrates a lot of what recruiting pitchers is all about. Don't take this persoanlly but this is a good example of what some don't understand.
In 7 innings your son hit 4 batters. Some tend to blame it on the hitter, but it is a pitchers job to hit NO ONE, that's a free pass. Also was it R or L handed hitters he faced?
If a pitcher has 90+ velo, no one steps into the pitch (as you claim) to get hit. They can get hurt, very hurt. If a pitcher doesn't have the velo, he needs control. That's what the coachis looking for. If these were good hitters as you claim, they reconginze this very easily even the first time they face a pitcher.

Imagine what it would be like when you face the same hitters year after year?
Last edited by TPM
OLDSLUGGER8OLDSLUGGER81,000+ posts
That dang 90 mph threshold that some folks think is a measure of success. Good hitters feast on velocity, especially with little or no movement and horrible location.

But, the same folks will say that movement and location can be taught whereas velocity is gifted, and easier to overcome.

Maddux is a good example, probably the best example of location and movement as a setup to making his fastball more effective.
Last edited by OLDSLUGGER8
rz1rz15,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by OLDSLUGGER8:
That dang 90 mph threshold that some folks think is a measure of success. Good hitters feast on velocity, especially with little or no movement and horrible location.
So true, and the fact that very few sit 90+ because many times that happens when a player rears back, and closes their eyes, lets it go, and becomes part of the 90's club. For some reason parents/fans who listen to hear-say versus holding guns praise's the 90 guy and dismiss the rest to selling shoes at the mall. All I know is at the CWS watching the "power teams" and watching a lot of MILB last year you saw more 88-90 guys with good movement versus the 90+ guys except for the 1 inning stopper

But, the same folks will say that movement and location can be taught whereas velocity is gifted, and easier to overcome.
You hear coaches say "we can add a few mph" but seldom do you hear "we can add a lot of movement".
Last edited by rz1
B BobbleheadDoll5,000+ posts
TPM I think most people understand. It is more that you don't understand what we understand.
In pro ball and even college most starters go 6-8 innings and give way toe a reliver and closer. It is not about the starter it is about getting the job done and saving arms. Ron Davis who worked with my son was a highly paid reliever for 10 years in the majors. My son was very happy being a reliver and closer in his freshman/soph years. He may infact prefer it. We will see how things go this season. His team has some excellent seniors and juniors who rightfully got the majority of the starts. He had some long outtings last year and 2-3 starts and did very well winning one and losing one. The one he won was only 4 innings and he was only supposed to go 3 but had such a low P count they let him go one more. He was slated to start against Winthrop on the weekend in 3 days and had to go in as a reliever. He needs at least 4 days in between starts. He told the coach he only had half a tank left. This is normal for him.
I know that starters get the praise but he had no issues with what he got other than he tended to go in when the game was lost as a frshman. That bothered him a little but last year he got his chances.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
bobbleheaddoll,

If people understand why do they give scenerios and then ask why no coach has called? Or why do parents state that no one called their son because he is too small or because he doesn't pitch over 90? Those are the ones who do not understand.

My point about the starter, reliever, closer was missed, I am sorry. Not my intention that one is better than the other they all are important roles, and as I said mine was a reliever before he was a starter. However, reread infielddads post, that makes more sense.

You do not have to throw 90+ to pitch in college and you do no have to be 6 foot+ to pitch either. But you do have to understand where your strengths lie and how to use that to your advantage, that includes grades as well. If you are a pitcher with lower velocity and under 6 foot, does it make sense to wait for that larger D1 to call or does it make sense for you to go out and look for opportunities where you will find success?

The title was finding a place to play college ball, that is exactly what one has to do. Nothing anyone says here is going to change what you can and cannot control, whether it be from "there are a lot of top D1's that a 85- can play at", to a "if you don't throw 90+ you are not going to play college ball".

I do beleive that you should never give up, but you have to be realistic in understanding that not all coaches want what we think they should want.
Last edited by TPM
OLDSLUGGER8OLDSLUGGER81,000+ posts
Example: O'Brady Jr. LHP, 85mph+ 5'10" 135lbs (late bloomer), solid ground ball pitcher, ok number of Ks and good BB to K ratio, Usually runs 3 or less ERA. (if you can see Tom Glavine in your mind, pitches much the same way. The crafty lefty nibbles and nibbles) lots of movement on the ball which is why so many ground balls.

If a 135 kid can hit 85, then that kid has a gift.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
I agree with the above, but take that and go where you can grow and get stronger, regardless of where tehschool is located or how much money you want for a scholarship.
In a few years, as the player grows and if he adds on more velocity he can write his own ticket anywhere.
Last edited by TPM
rz1rz15,000+ posts
quote:
tpm quote:
If people understand why do they give scenerios and then ask why no coach has called? Or why do parents state that no one called their son because he is too small or because he doesn't pitch over 90? Those are the ones who do not understand.


That's kind of cold and if you looked in the rear view mirror you wondered the same when you were going through the process years ago. There is more behind "recruiting", "why things happen", and "coaching contacts" than 6'+ and 90+ and our opinions on this board should not be construed as gospel but rather constructive opinions from all angles. Trust me, my Northern outlook and experience is in total conflict from the Southern view. Who's right, all sides in my mind. But the newbies come on board with preconceived opinions or hear-say that they can not completely buy into and are looking for a sounding board and that's where the board members come in. We don't have the answers only OUR experiences. Some may have "Top 40" team opinions, some Northern, some D2, some NAIA, but no one as all the answers.

But then again.......

quote:
tpm quote:
rz,
I agree with your post, but it doesn't seem your example is important to many (not necessarily here). Choice for school baseball first, achool second.

In the future I'll have to "check in" before I throw in my opinion to make sure it's ok to post Frown
Last edited by rz1
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
rz,
What I meant was that your point is how very important school is, I agree with you but I don't always get that feeling here sometimes, for some school is last on the list.

I do apologize if that sounds cold, not my intention. I try to be as encouraging as I can. If memory serves me correctly OBrady moved from one state to another during his son's HS season (correct me if I am wrong). That's tough. He has in the past been a frequent poster and knows the advice given here is good. He has not mentioned what steps he has taken to get his son exposure (though you can go back and read previous posts). He mentioned son doesn't care for the north and they want some baseball money and time is marching forward and soon time to apply for colleges, should he hang up his cleats? If he really wants to play college baseball, if one can't go forward with the advice given and start contacting some of the schools mentioned (even though that is not what they want) than no matter what I say or you or anyone else means nothing.
OLDSLUGGER8OLDSLUGGER81,000+ posts
Lets take step back from the content in this thread, and focus elsewhere.

Any kid who whips it in there at 85 at a buck 135lbs obviously was born with the twitch. I would like his Dad to tell me he can jump, run fast, and has other athletic skills.

His Dad mentioned "Late Bloomer".

This kid may max out at 185 pounds........like Mike Hampton????

Projection, and all its whoopped up to be is nice, but from an athletic standpoint, a ball only travels so far, and holds velocity when pitched to a point, not by gurus, but by natural ability.

A 15 year old raking it 435 feet as a HS freshman doesn't need to focus on hitting it 500 feet. He needs to focus on hitting it 435 feet "CONSISTENTLY" every 10th at bat.
Last edited by OLDSLUGGER8
M MSgrits10+ posts
O'Brady: “At what point do you hang up the cleats because no one is going to call? What is left for these guys? What would you say to these guys?”

Many interesting points but our recruiting strategy was called The Express. It was a “run away train” and NOTHING was going to get in our way of making the dream come true….

Recruiting to play college baseball is like looking for a good job (it is a job!) You market yourself (apply, e-mail, letters, questionnaires, phone calls) and wait for a response- but wait… there is NO RESPONSE many times. Do you sit there and feel sorry for yourself? Or do you do something about it? It is up to you!

The waiting to sign a NLI seems like an eternity. Just treat it like it is the job you have wanted your whole life (cause it probably is for your son) Start the RUN AWAY TRAIN and don’t stop until all the steam has left the engine (the day before the start of fall 2008 semester Or walk-on try-outs).

As a D-1 college academic advisor, if talented athletes come in and say they are not playing, I ask do you mind telling me if this is what you want? Are you content with never playing again? MANY times they say no, I just didn’t get any calls. My answer is: I don’t want you to look back when you are 30, 40, or 50 years old and say, “what if” and regret not having tried-out or transferred for a better chance of playing somewhere.

If you think you will say “if I had only” then get off your butt and crank up the RUN AWAY TRAIN- (Players Name) Express and use every bit of steam you have until the job is done.
Last edited by MSgrits
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
quote:
Originally posted by floridafan:
Great Post MSgrits!

You don't want to have regrets that you did not do all you could of to continue the "Love of the Game".

My Son would have moved to any state in the union to have an opportunity keep playing the game he loves.



I agree great post and so was yours Floridafan. I know when things didn't look like they were going to happen you and your son went out and made sure it did. A lot of people could learn from your experience.
20dad20dad1,000+ posts
i think any boy that WANTS to play college baseball,there is a place to play. i truly believe that.but he needs the want not us as parents.
my oldest son is a baseball player and a lefty.and about 5' 10''.190. he is just not a student in the farthest stretch of the word. had phone calls from all the D's. but couldn't sell his acedemic short comings. aparently there are many baseball players that aren't good students,much to my surprise. scouts said to short so no draft to worry about.
but we were called by a local juco and found a fit. the coach called out of the blue. said he thought my son would be playing elsewhere etc. etc.
it all worked out.
not every member here has kids that play or will play at a d1 school,or get drafted.i think we get caught up with going to the biggest d1 out there on a full boat. not every one can do that, most can't. there are over 60 repy's saying the same thing.with a few side shot's here and there. that is what i love about this place,it is great reading with alot of knowledge thrown in.but as rz said we are giving you our experience and what we have learned from the same journey. you can't make this stuff up.

o'brady
someday every one stops playing,it's up to your son when that is. not us or some college coach. keep looking or start looking where you know in your heart he belongs. if it is ment to be it will be,but not without some sweat. good luck never hurts either.
Last edited by 20dad
Y 50YOBBB10+ posts
I started a discussion earlier with much the same theme as this one; titled 'size matters' about a talented 5'10"/150 LHP not getting any looks. Since becoming a bit more agressive contacting schools in recent weeks he's received several responses from W. Coast D1 programs; this is the most recent response....

Thank you for the email.....You are definitely on our board. We liked you at ***X and have heard
great things about you. To fill out our roster for the 2009 campaign we are searching for a pitcher
and you are high on our list. What we need from you is an unofficial transcript showing your 7th
semester courses in progress (should have just finished finals) and your 8th semester planned for a preliminary review and SAT 1 and SAT 11 scores.....Give me a call if you have any questions. Looking forward to talking with you.
TRhitTRhit10,000+ posts
I have for many years preached that there is a college for every HS player who truly wants to play ball at the college level. It may not be the school of his dreams there will be a place for him.

As for size the under 6 ft player can certainly find a college location to play even if he is a pitcher.

The key factor is TALENT---if the kid is a "player" there will be a spot for him -- somewhere-- someplace.

GRADES---with the new rules coming into place the academics will be a key factor in recruiting, at least in my thinking. The border line student may find it tough now as coaches will be looking for the more sure bets in the classroom
BumBum1,000+ posts
That's great, 50YOBBB.. keep at it and hopefully he'll find the right program. Just remember some of these letters are form letters sent to a list of players which they later filter in size to a handful of recruits. It shows you're getting some interest.. that's good.. but contact some other schools, too.

I'd like to address the size and velocity issues, two common themes in this thread.

O'Brady's kid is 135 lbs. Wow, he needs to change that SOON. Eat some meat, son! I think 50YOBBB's son at 150 lbs will be fine with some natural growth as an '09.

A lot of people confuse size with power and assume a kid who is small is also not durable. My son is a lefty who is not big but he is very durable. He can throw 100+ pitches with ease and with good velocity at the finish. He threw 140+ innings in each of the past two seasons, and ended up throwing harder at the end of the year. That's durability.

Ichiro is small at 5'9", and he is extremely durable and powerful. In BP before games he hits more home runs than anyone on the Mariners. If he wanted, I'm sure he'd be a 40+ home run guy. I know a lot of scouts equate size with durability, and that bias is the reality facing parents of smaller kids. But you can't deal with that reality by complaining, can you?

As for velocity, cruising 85+ stalker (D1) or 88+ (Pro) is about where any lefty needs to be for success.
Last edited by Bum
TR Tim Robertson100+ posts
O'Brady -
I don't have a whole lot to say having a whole lot less experience than some here, but for what it is worth:
You and your son need to figure out what he wants to study as colleges offer limited majors.
My youngest wanted to study engineering - well that leaves us 5 colleges in VA and they are all DI, the smallest of them being VMI (personally I think playing at North Dakota State would be easier than VMI - they are "rough" on the boys there unless one thinks mixing college, baseball, and military training is heaven everyday!).
So.....we looked elsewhere and he ended up at RIT in Rochester,NY. He got an academic scholarship, a grant, loans, and a fat bill for Mom & Dad, but we are going for it. We were impressed with the school and he is enjoying it there and likes his teachers/professors. He had the thought of not playing after high school and now he went and walked on. So we're hoping that all works out good for him, but I will say that I was kind of hyped up about baseball and all and now have come full circle and if it works out, then it works out. The education is the important thing and what one is paying for. So.........
Find out what he wants to study and go from there. If you can work out baseball too, then great and if not then you have a school you want to be at.
If he really wants to play as well as earn a degree then you'll just have to look around. Maybe a community college for 2 years and then get on with life with just school for the last 2. Or, things really start looking up and he gets to play some more.

Tim Robertson
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